Gap theory - Gen 1-2 ??

Rondonmonson · Mar 8, 2017

Tambora said:
When light bends, does it slow by resistance in the bend?

I'm not sure how can one can know that light always travels at the same speed at all times anywhere in space without knowing of every single variable that could exist.

If it slows negligibly then it would take even longer. God created the Universe and it was done. He didn't have to wait, He is that special and lives in all times. So He didn't have to change the Laws of Nature. I know a professor/scientist who went to MIT, he has a youtube video called God proved in 5 Minutes, his name is Gerald Schroeder. He shows how scientists have discovered God and don't even realize it.

Our Sun and Earth formed from a Gaseous Dust cloud, turned into a Solar Nebula, then to the Sun. A nearby supernova exploded (supernovas take billions of years to form) and disturbed a cloud of dust and gas in space, and BOOM our Solar System was formed by waves in space which which squeezed the dust and gas and that made it collapse, as gravity pulled the gas and dust together, forming a Solar Nebula. Just like a dancer that spins faster as she pulls in her arms, the cloud began to spin as it collapsed. Eventually, the cloud grew hotter and denser in the center, with a disk of gas and dust surrounding it that was hot in the center but cool at the edges. As the disk got thinner and thinner, particles began to stick together and form clumps. Some clumps got bigger, as particles and small clumps stuck to them, eventually forming planets or moons . Near the center of the cloud, where planets like Earth formed, only rocky material could stand the great heat. Icy matter settled in the outer regions of the disk along with rocky material, where the giant planets like Jupiter formed. As the cloud continued to fall in, the center eventually got so hot that it became a star, the Sun, and blew most of the gas and dust of the new solar system with a strong stellar wind. By studying meteorites, which are thought to be left over from this early phase of the solar system, scientists have found that the solar system is about 4600 million years old. 4.6 Billion years old.

The Surface of the earth was molten lava for 700 Million years. There could be no life on earth. The 6000 year old earth is just not possible.

1Mind1Spirit · Mar 8, 2017

Tambora said:
When light bends, does it slow by resistance in the bend?

I'm not sure how can one can know that light always travels at the same speed at all times anywhere in space without knowing of every single variable that could exist.

Yes, the irrelevant rabbit hole of relativity.

Tambora · Mar 8, 2017

Rondonmonson said:
If it slows negligibly .

It does slow.
Light does not always travel at the same speed.

So what calculation can be made if you do not know how many times the light slowed?

then it would take even longer

Slower.
We don't how many times the light slowed before it reached earth.
It's going to shorten your 'years' timeline because you have measured it by the normal speed of light and it did not always go that fast.
Not to mention that if one light ray from the source slowed more times than another light ray from the same source, you are going to have two different calculations of the timing if you use the standard light speed for both of those light rays.
And there is no telling how many light rays are from the same source.
There are just too many variables that are unknown to make a concrete calculation on how old a light source is.

1Mind1Spirit · Mar 8, 2017

Rondonmonson said:
If it slows negligibly then it would take even longer. God created the Universe and it was done. He didn't have to wait, He is that special and lives in all times. So He didn't have to change the Laws of Nature. I know a professor/scientist who went to MIT, he has a youtube video called God proved in 5 Minutes, his name is Gerald Schroeder. He shows how scientists have discovered God and don't even realize it.

Our Sun and Earth formed from a Gaseous Dust cloud, turned into a Solar Nebula, then to the Sun. A nearby supernova exploded (supernovas take billions of years to form) and disturbed a cloud of dust and gas in space, and BOOM our Solar System was formed by waves in space which which squeezed the dist and gas and that made it collapse, as gravity pulled the gas and dust together, forming a Solar Nebula. Just like a dancer that spins faster as she pulls in her arms, the cloud began to spin as it collapsed. Eventually, the cloud grew hotter and denser in the center, with a disk of gas and dust surrounding it that was hot in the center but cool at the edges. As the disk got thinner and thinner, particles began to stick together and form clumps. Some clumps got bigger, as particles and small clumps stuck to them, eventually forming planets or moons . Near the center of the cloud, where planets like Earth formed, only rocky material could stand the great heat. Icy matter settled in the outer regions of the disk along with rocky material, where the giant planets like Jupiter formed. As the cloud continued to fall in, the center eventually got so hot that it became a star, the Sun, and blew most of the gas and dust of the new solar system with a strong stellar wind. By studying meteorites, which are thought to be left over from this early phase of the solar system, scientists have found that the solar system is about 4600 million years old. 4.6 Billion years old.

The Surface of the earth was molten lava for 700 Million years. There could be no life on earth. The 6000 year old earth is just not possible.

This chick had pipes, man!

Tambora · Mar 8, 2017

1Mind1Spirit said:
Yes, the irrelevant rabbit hole of relativity.

And there are tons of rabbit holes!
Another is the theory that the universe is expanding. That would mean that it is possible for earth and the light source to be moving away from each other.
Which would mean that it would take longer for the light to reach earth, but the timing of it's creation stays the same.
We have no idea of how many times the light was reflected and bounced off several objects along the way, making the time the light reaches earth longer, but the timing of the creation of the light source remains the same.

Tambora · Mar 8, 2017

1Mind1Spirit said:
This chick had pipes, man!

Did you go?

1Mind1Spirit · Mar 8, 2017

Tambora said:
Did you go?

I was a bit young.

Last I heard she's still around but in purdy bad shape.

I don't think she's able to perform anymore.

1Mind1Spirit · Mar 8, 2017

Tambora said:
And there are tons of rabbit holes!
Another is the theory that the universe is expanding. That would mean that it is possible for earth and the light source to be moving away from each other.
Which would mean that it would take longer for the light to reach earth, but the timing of it's creation stays the same.
We have no idea of how many times the light was reflected and bounced off several objects along the way, making the time the light reaches earth longer, but the timing of the creation of the light source remains the same.

His ways are past finding out.:thumb:

Rondonmonson · Mar 8, 2017

Tambora said:
It does slow.
Light does not always travel at the same speed.

So what calculation can be made if you do not know how many times the light slowed?

Slower.
We don't how many times the light slowed before it reached earth.
It's going to shorten your 'years' timeline because you have measured it by the normal speed of light and it did not always go that fast.
Not to mention that if one light ray from the source slowed more times than another light ray from the same source, you are going to have two different calculations of the timing if you use the standard light speed for both of those light rays.
And there is no telling how many light rays are from the same source.
There are just too many variables that are unknown to make a concrete calculation on how old a light source is.

If any light slowed it would take longer, which argues against your 6000 year old earth argument rather than in favor of it. If it took hundreds of millions of years for some stars light to reach the earth by the peed of light, then by slowing down, it would take longer, meaning the Universe would have to be older.

There is not too many variables, the laws of nature are what they are 6000 years is preposterous. It is not possible. The earths surface was molten lava for 700 million years.

I was studying Quantum Fluctuations because I found out that Scientists were stating that what caused the Big Bang was Quantum Fluctuations, so as long as you had Quantum Fluctuation's or the Laws of Nature/A Set of Forces, something could come from nothing. But there is a catch. And I bet not one scientist sees it !! (Except Gerald Schroeder) So Science has discovered you can create the Universe from nothing, providing we have the Forces/Laws of Nature (Q.F.) and these Laws of Nature aren't Physical, but they act on the physical. So if they Create the universe, that means they Predate the universe. WOW, do you see it coming ?

Quantum Fluctuations (Set of forces/Laws of nature, is a must)
1) Not Physical
2) Acts on the Physical
3) Created the Physical from Nothing
4) Predates the Universe

What does that sound like to you ? The Biblical God !!

1. God is a Spirit He is not a Physical being (God is a Spirit and must be worshiped in like manner)
2. God said, In the Beginning (So the Physical had a beginning)
3. God created all matter from nothing (God created the Heaven and the Earth)
4. God is Eternal, the bible says so in many places.

Tambora · Mar 8, 2017

1Mind1Spirit said:
I was a bit young.

I was in high school.
I didn't go.

6days · Mar 8, 2017

rondonmonson said:
We have knowledge that those people did not have. Scientists were wrong 150 years ago, the consensus was the Universe is Eternal...

So.... why are you so willing to believe the consensus now? God's Word was correct about there being a beginning...And, He is correct about the age of the universe.

rondonmonson said:
By the same notion, w understand as Christians that light from yonder stars travel at a certain speed, thus we know exactly how old the universe is.

God has a little science quiz for you in Job 38, 39.*

In order to reject God's Word about the age of our universe, you also reject logic. (distance and speed are not the same thing). Perhaps answer Tambora's question. Perhaps tell us how you measure the one way speed of light. And, perhaps tell us how fast God spread the heavens.

rondonmonson said:
There was 400 Million years of Darkness......The Bible is proved right again, There was Darkness on the Face of the Deep

God tells us there was darkness for less than a day.

rondonmonson said:
So what we have here is a Universe created in Six Days, with God faking all manner of fossil bones of Dinos and such

Perhaps you think God would fake things. But, the God of the Bible gives us the explanation for marine fossils, and dinos,everywhere on earth. The evidence is consistent with His Word.*

rondonmonson said:
*and making the light from stars speed up faster than he speed of light and natural law

Sadly... you choose to believe secular opinions rather than what God tells us. You reject that God could spread the universe faster than speed of light, yet believe secular opinions that mythical expansion after the Big Bang was faster than speed of light. (spare me the explanation about expansion in a vacuum..... I choose to believe God's version)

rondonmonson said:
just to create an earth in Six days, and make us think its much older.

We don't think its much older. *Evidence helps confirm we live in a young universe.*

rondonmonson said:
And many believe that because the English word Day is used as a 24 Hour Day, when the Hebrew word simply means TO BE HOT. It can also mean a period of time and about 50 other things.*

Now, you are really confused. YOM and DAY have a similar variety of meanings...but always understood by context, in both languages. The Hebrew context of the creation days demands an interpretation of what we call 24 hour days. I can go into detail for you, but I suspect you are not interested in anything contradicting your billions of years. *But..... If you are willing to consider that God created in six literal days??

Also... Not sure if you are repeating what someone said about yom meaning hot.... but its dishonest. Do you really think every Bible translation team... all the Hebrew scholars at every university are stupid and used the English word 'day'... instead of 'hot'? *You need look up definitions of words rather than make false claims to try push your beliefs. Do a word search in the OT for the word 'day', and substitute your word - HOT. *(over 2200 times). Does it help you to know that Jonah was in the belly of the fish for 3 HOTS? *Now... here is the real story on the connection between 'yom' and 'hot'. "The word Yom's root meaning is to be hot as the warm hours of a day.. " Wiki. *However, it is never used in Hebrew to mean hot, and not once in 2200 times in scripture would it make sense to say 'hot' instead of 'day'.*

rondonmonson said:
The facts are, the Universe is 13.7 Billion years old,...

No... that is your BELIEF. That belief contradicts the foundations to the Gospel and destroys the purpose of Christ's physical death on the cross.*

rondonmonson said:
The facts suggest that a YOWM is a period of time

Nope... You would be correct if you had said 'it can be a period of time, and we always understand it from context'.*

6days · Mar 8, 2017

Rondomonsom said:
The Surface of the earth was molten lava for 700 Million years. There could be no life on earth.

Thats just one of the many secular beliefs that contradict God. He tells us earth initially was water.

Tambora · Mar 8, 2017

Rondonmonson said:
If any light slowed it would take longer, which argues against your 6000 year old earth argument rather than in favor of it. If it took hundreds of millions of years for some stars light to reach the earth by the peed of light, then by slowing down, it would take longer, meaning the Universe would have to be older.

No.
The timing of the creation of the light source would not change no matter how slow or fast the light rays were moving.
The slower the light goes, the more years you have to shave off (because you calculated by the fasted speed light could move and not the actual speed it moved at all times).
It only took longer for the light ray to reach earth because of speed, not the timing of creation.

Let's do math.

To make this easier, we will say that light travels at 10 miles per hour.
And the earth is 10 miles from the light source.

If there was no slowing of the light and it was unobstructed to move in a straight bee-line to earth, it would reach earth in 1 hour.

But if the light ricochets and bounces off one object to another (thus not a straight bee-line, but a zig-zag line), it's going to take longer for the light to reach earth, BUT THE TIMING OF THE CREATION OF LIGHT SOURCE STAYS THE SAME.

Two separate light rays could start from the source at the exact same time, but one of those rays gets obstructed and slows down, then you have two light rays from the same source, but they reach earth at different times.
If you caught that slower light ray and measured it by the top speed of light, you end up adding years to it's creation because you did not recalculate at a slower speed to accommodate the variables of speed.

In other words, just because the amount of time it takes for a light ray that slows down and takes longer to reach earth, it takes a longer time for the light ray to reach earth, but that speed does not add or take away any years from when the source was created.

Are you seeing it yet?

We could add another variable ---- the theory of black holes and that they are so strong that light cannot escape if sucked in.
What happens to the light that comes near enough to a black hole that it feels the suction of the black hole but is not sucked in?
The pressure of that black hole could conceivably hold that light ray to a crawl for who knows how many years before the light crawled far enough away from the black hole to speed back up.
You cannot calculate by the standard (fastest) speed of light.

I'm trying to think of other ways to express this.
Say I made two cars on the same day (that can go a maximum speed of 10 mph) and they take off for the destination at the same time right when they were made.
One moves slower than the other that always moves at top speed.
The fast one gets to the destination in 1 hour.
The other takes 10 hours.
They came from the same source at the same time, but arrived at the destination at different times.

At top speed, each car should take 1 hour to reach the destination.
So you can calculate that 1 hour at top speed travels 10 miles, thus making the creation of the car 1 hour ago.
But if you take the second car that had to move slower because of obstacles that slowed it down, and calculate by the top speed, then you would have to say the car was created 10 hours ago.
But that would be INCORRECT because both cars were created 1 hour ago, so you need to shave off 9 hours of the car that moved slower.

That is why when you calculate by the standard speed of light, but that light ray actually moved slower at times and took longer to reach the destination, then you need to shave time off as to the timing of it's creation, not add to it.
If the light moved slower at any time, you have to shave off time (years) from it's creation if you calculate by the standard top speed of light.
And we have no idea how many times a light ray had to slow down before it reached earth.

So I would even venture to say that there has been no light ray that has not ever been obstructed at some time
Which would mean that time would have to shaved off if it was calculated at top speed (the standard speed of light) to determine the timing of it's creation.

Call me bonkers (and I may be

) but I cannot see how, if it took longer for a light ray to reach us because of slowing, it could possibly add more time to it's creation point.
It took a longer time period for the light ray to reach us, but the timing of the creation is still the same whether the light ray reached us in 1 hour or 10.

Rondonmonson · Mar 8, 2017

So.... why are you so willing to believe the consensus now? God's Word was correct about there being a beginning...And, He is correct about the age of the universe.

{ The same reason that we know the Universe had a beginning, scientific proof. It was an echo that led the first guys to understand the Big Bang and disproved the Eternal Universe. FOLLOW THE FACTS. God still created the Universe, why are you disappointed in the fact that he created the Universe over a 13.7 Billion year period? It doesn't matter if it proves your beliefs wrong sir, all that matters is the truth. I follow the Holy Spirit. I wrote a blog saying that Rome was the Babylon of Rev. 17 about a year ago. Within like 2 months, God was tapping me on the shoulder, HEY RON, you were wrong about that Blog. That's another story. Point being, being wrong is OK....As long as when God reveals the truth to us we listen.}

God has a little science quiz for you in Job 38, 39.*

In order to reject God's Word about the age of our universe, you also reject logic. (distance and speed are not the same thing). Perhaps answer Tambora's question. Perhaps tell us how you measure the one way speed of light. And, perhaps tell us how fast God spread the heavens.

{ We know the speed of light. The Light slowing down means nothing, it would have to speed up to get here faster. And tat is just one of thousands of evidence points that prove how old the Universe is. The Oil just got here because God created it there, it didn't come from the Dinos. Again, you are trying to hurry Gods creation up, and God doesn't have to wait. He creates it and lives in it at the same moment. The Laws of Nature say Universe is 13.7 Billion years old. }

God tells us there was darkness for less than a day.

I don't think so, that's just the way you interpret it, because you actually believe that, incredulously to me, that the universe is 6000 years old, many do. You think God just changed the Laws of nature. But it didn't happen that way.....English is not the official language of the bible, its Hebrew and YOWM means TO BE HOT. The universe has been MAPPED OUT using Microwaves. Its just like radar, its a real picture man. It shows exactly how old the universe is. We see the rate of expansion in the Universe NOW....Do you understand that Brother in Christ? Thus we can calculate how old the universe is. I don't get the 6000 year old stuff. And I have been preaching over 25 years. There is no one more conservative than me anywhere.

Perhaps you think God would fake things. But, the God of the Bible gives us the explanation for marine fossils, and dinos,everywhere on earth. The evidence is consistent with His Word.*

Yes, and we see how old our earth is, 4.6 Billion years old via Science.

Sadly... you choose to believe secular opinions rather than what God tells us. You reject that God could spread the universe faster than speed of light, yet believe secular opinions that mythical expansion after the Big Bang was faster than speed of light. (spare me the explanation about expansion in a vacuum..... I choose to believe God's version)

Sadly you choose to believe what is unbelievable. The Science proves God, if you will let it. All because you are hung up on the English word day I guess. You guys even believe the Sun was created on the fourth day, which is way out there. The Earth rotates around the sun. It would be slung into outer space without the Suns gravitational pull.

We don't think its much older. *Evidence helps confirm we live in a young universe.*

No it doesn't............not being snide, I have read all of that stuff, and its utter nonsense man.

Now, you are really confused. YOM and DAY have a similar variety of meanings...but always understood by context, in both languages. The Hebrew context of the creation days demands an interpretation of what we call 24 hour days. I can go into detail for you, but I suspect you are not interested in anything contradicting your billions of years. *But..... If you are willing to consider that God created in six literal days??

Also... Not sure if you are repeating what someone said about yom meaning hot.... but its dishonest. Do you really think every Bible translation team... all the Hebrew scholars at every university are stupid and used the English word 'day'... instead of 'hot'? *You need look up definitions of words rather than make false claims to try push your beliefs. Do a word search in the OT for the word 'day', and substitute your word - HOT. *(over 2200 times). Does it help you to know that Jonah was in the belly of the fish for 3 HOTS? *Now... here is the real story on the connection between 'yom' and 'hot'. "The word Yom's root meaning is to be hot as the warm hours of a day.. " Wiki. *However, it is never used in Hebrew to mean hot, and not once in 2200 times in scripture would it make sense to say 'hot' instead of 'day'.*

I will, and have, and I will show you the original root word, then try to place it in context. I use a Hebrew site all the time. Daniel 9:27 has a totally different meaning when the Hebrew is used.

#3117 יוֹם yowm {yome}

from an unused root meaning to be hot; TWOT - 852; n m

Now I am going to go through 8 verses, or two days here.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

{This doesn't mean the Earth was created on the first Day, God is just giving us the parameters of His creation, He gave the Command in the beginning, but as we know the Universe is STILL EXPANDING/Being Created, did God REST or is He still creating ? We God gave the COMMAND TO COME FORTH, thus He Created the Heaven and the Earth in the Beginning by giving the command. But the Heaven was not complete, its still being Created, likewise the Earth was no here at that time. It was commanded to come fort in its DUE TIME! The Earth was without Form and Void, the definition for Void means EMPTY SPACE. It was not there yet. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the Waters !! Do you know that there is no such thing as Light? It is only a reflection. God used Water/Mist to create the Light. This is not speaking about waters upon the Earth. But God brought forth the Mist in the Universe, to create Light. Notice the very next verse. NUMBER 3 Says, and God said LET THERE BE LIGHT !! }

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

{ Now, after the 400 Million years of Darkness the first Stars started to appear. And God divided the Light from the Dark. There is a huge Gulf in outer space, 400 Million years of Darkness followed the Big Bang, the the Universe brought forth Stars (LIGHT). AND GOD CALLED THE LIGHT (DAY) TO BE HOT !! The Stars are HOT are they not ? Once Dark, now there is HOT STARS.......TO BE HOT matches the Universes Map as mapped out by Microwaves. 400 Million years of Darkness, followed by HOT STARS FORMING...Trillions of them. Why wouldn't YO BE HOT FIT ? Why ? It foes fit. }

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

And God commanded a Firmament to come forth, the Sky Dome we have, that protects us from asteroids and such. Our Atmosphere. And let it divide the Waters from the Waters. This seems to be speaking about Water that goes up to the sky to be rain, and Water that would be on the Earth. Of course God would tell us about this process after the 700,000 Years of Lava had cooled. Nit 700 Million years of Lava, typo....I KNOW, it happens. The Firmament was HEAVEN, and the Evening and the Morning was the Second Day. The Earth is Revolving around the Sun now. The Darkness was first, thus its the Evening the the Morning. YOWM can also mean PERIOD OF TIME. We know it doesn't mean 24 Hour periods here, because we have common sense.

Other meanings of YOWM....
1) day, time, year
1a) day (as opposed to night)
1b) day (24 hour period)
1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
1b2) as a division of time
1b2a) a working day, a day's journey
1c) days, lifetime (pl.)
1d) time, period (general)
1e) year
1f) temporal references

YOWM has so many meanings because the Hebrew Language had 4000 words, compared to our English which has 500,000 words. You have to use common sense, and place the proper word in its proper CONTEXTUAL MEANING.

No... that is your BELIEF. That belief contradicts the foundations to the Gospel and destroys the purpose of Christ's physical death on the cross.*

Now that's funny. Psst, the universes age has nothing to do with Christ's death on the cross. I am correct on the age of the universe, and when we get to Heaven you will find that out. Cheer up, you can't be right on everything. :second:

Nope... You would be correct if you had said 'it can be a period of time, and we always understand it from context'.*

That's true, but we know the universe is 13.7 Billion years old brother. The Science is proving Gods bible to be true, if we let it. So in context, we know it can't be 24 hour days.

God Bless my brother.

Rondonmonson · Mar 8, 2017

Call me bonkers (and I may be ) but I cannot see how, if it took longer for a light ray to reach us because of slowing, it could possibly add more time to it's creation point.

If light traveled at Ten Trillion miles a day and there was a Star Ten Trillion miles away, our earth could be created in ONE DAY and receive the Light the next morning. If that light traveled at ONE TRILLION miles a day, our earth could not be one day old and receive that light, it would have to be at least 10 Days old.

Do you see that the father away a star is, the older the earth would have to be to receive that light ?

George Affleck · Mar 9, 2017

Tambora said:
None of that answers my question of what happened to the folks that were created first and destroyed before Adam & Eve were formed.
Unless you hold the view that there was a civilization destroyed before the time of Adam & Eve, then you cannot answer the question.

I'm not sure there is such a theory held among Bible believers.

The reason the Gap theory was invented was to allow some Christians to embrace the billions of years required by the theory of evolution.
If the days of creation are not consecutive 24 hour periods as plainly and simply stated, then millions or billions of years of evolution can take place between the creative events. Or, alternately, if the 24 hour days are themselves long epochs of time, then evolution can (in theory) occur.

As far as I know, gap-theorists do not admit of any true civilizations of humans prior to Adam and Eve. (Someone please correct me on this) But, rather, soulless creatures, missing links between ape and human, extinct hominins such as Australopithecus afarensis ( Lucy) or Homo habilis (so-called) wherein God used the vehicle of evolution over millions of years to produce a final, fully human, pair into which He placed souls.

Interplanner · Mar 9, 2017

Tam wrote:
the Gap Theory that includes a previous civilization

Interesting qualification. That's not the only option that exists. It is possible that the earth was the confinement called the 'blackness of darkness' of rebel angels of Jude and 2 Peter 2.

The grammar of Gen 1 goes like this:

Section Title: In the beginning... (comp 5:1 and many examples in Genesis)
Pre-existing condition: The earth was already 'tohu wa-bohu' (formless and empty). And it was dark. These features usually mean an act of judgement had taken place, Jer 4:13. The Spirit of God was waiting to make something new out of the waste of the past.
New action: God creates the 3 realms/forms and fills the 3 forms with life, during creation week. The condition 'tohu wa-bohu' has now been completely corrected.
Summary: it was very good

There is no gap because the section title is not 'action' in the account.

These four organizational features are found in many sections of Genesis

S-word · Mar 9, 2017

George Affleck said:
I'm not sure there is such a theory held among Bible believers.

The reason the Gap theory was invented was to allow some Christians to embrace the billions of years required by the theory of evolution.
If the days of creation are not consecutive 24 hour periods as plainly and simply stated, then millions or billions of years of evolution can take place between the creative events. Or, alternately, if the 24 hour days are themselves long epochs of time, then evolution can (in theory) occur.

As far as I know, gap-theorists do not admit of any true civilizations of humans prior to Adam and Eve. (Someone please correct me on this) But, rather, soulless creatures, missing links between ape and human, extinct hominins such as Australopithecus afarensis ( Lucy) or Homo habilis (so-called) wherein God used the vehicle of evolution over millions of years to produce a final, fully human, pair into which He placed souls.

And what do you think that soul is?

George Affleck · Mar 9, 2017

S-word said:
And what do you think that soul is?

Sorry, this thread is not about what a soul is and I don't have time to discuss it with you.
But, it doesn't matter what I think anyway. What matters is what God says.

Best to start with a Bible search on that.

6days · Mar 9, 2017

Rondonmonson said:
The same reason that we know the Universe had a beginning, scientific proof.

We know the universe had a beginning,because God tells us...not because of consensus. Likewise we know the age of the universe from God's Word. The sun, moon and stars were created on day 4 of the creation week. Adam and Eve were created 2 days later.*

S-Word said:
We know the speed of light.

Yes...we know the 2way speed of light. (You confuse istance with speed). *You didn't answer the questions.

*Perhaps tell us how you measure the one way speed of light.*

*Perhaps tell us how fast God spread the heavens.

Rondonmonson said:
And tat is just one of thousands of evidence points that prove how old the Universe is.

You are mistaken choosing to believe secular interpretations of the evidence. We can observe the same evidences through the lens of God's inerrant Word. And..... we don't need to invent rescue devices to explain away evidence like old earthers do. (young appearance of Pluto, recession rate of moon, comets, etc)

Rondonmonson said:
Again, you are trying to hurry Gods creation up, and God doesn't have to wait. He creates it and lives in it at the same moment. The Laws of Nature say Universe is 13.7 Billion years old.

Haha.

*God tells us "in six days God created the heavens and the earth and everything in them" Humans were created during those six days, and Jesus believed it...and repeated it.*

Rondonmonson said:
You think God just changed the Laws of nature. But it didn't happen that way.

It happens the way He tells us.*

* He tells us Jesus was born of a virgin..I believe it.

* He tells us He spoke the universe into existence...I believe it.

* He tells us He formed Eve from Adam's rib...I believe it.

* He tells us Jesus rose from the grave...I believe it.*

Rondonmonson said:
*I don't get the 6000 year old stuff. And I have been preaching over 25 years. There is no one more conservative than me anywhere.

Hmmmmm..... I wonder how many accepted you low view of scripture. Hopefully none, but unfortunately many do have "itching ears".*

Rondonmonson said:
Yes, and we see how old our earth is, 4.6 Billion years old via Science.

You continue to confuse science with opinions, or interpretations.

Rondonmonson said:
You guys even believe the Sun was created on the fourth day,

Of course... SEE Genesis 1

Rondonmonson said:
The*Earth rotates around the sun. It would be slung into outer space without the Suns gravitational pull.

That would be a problem for your god... not the Creator who spoke the universe into existence.*

Rondonmonson said:
I have read all of that stuff, (evidence for young earth)and its utter nonsense man.

I don't think God's Word is nonsense, nor all the other supporting evidence.*

Rondonmonson said:
YOWM has so many meanings ...

Yes... that is what I have said...over and over. We know the creation days are the same as our 24 hour periods...

* from an understanding of Hebrew context; the grammar demands it.

* exegetical word study of the 2200 timea the word is used in the OT. When the word refers to a longer, or shorter period of time, its easy to tell using context.

* From the various Biblical authors...and Jesus who referred to Genesis as literal history.

Rondonmonson said:
Now that's funny. Psst, the universes age has nothing to do with Christ's death on the cross.`

Without knowing your beliefs about the gospel, I suspect you preach a different Jesus and gospel. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you seem to push the atheist message...here it is.An Atheist Answers...From American Atheists
"if Adam and Eve and the Talking Snake are myths, then Original Sin is also a myth, right? Well, think about it.

"Jesus’ major purpose was to save mankind from Original Sin.Original Sin makes believers unworthy of salvation, but you get it anyway, so you should be grateful for being saved (from that which does not exist)Without Original Sin, the marketing that all people are sinners and therefore need to accept Jesus falls moot.

"All we are asking is that you take what you know into serious consideration, even if it means taking a hard look at all you’ve been taught for your whole life. No Adam and Eve means no need for a savior. It also means that the Bible cannot be trusted as a source of unambiguous, literal truth. It is completely unreliable, because it all begins with a myth, and builds on that as a basis. No Fall of Man means no need for atonement and no need for a redeemer. You know it."

Or,*A scientist explains...Dr Georgia Purdom, PhD microbiology. "many Christians have compromised on the historical and theological importance of Genesis. If Adam and Eve aren’t real people who sinned in the Garden of Eden, and as a result we are all not sinners, then Jesus Christ’s death on the cross was useless. ...the*literal truth of Genesis is so important to the authority and truthfulness of Scripture. It is the very foundation of the Gospel."

Or...

Dr Peter Barnes, lecturer in church history at the Presbyterian Theological Centre in Sydney. He wrote: “…if God wanted us to understand the creation week as a literal week, He could hardly have made the point any clearer…. The theological argument is also compelling. According to the Bible, there was no death until there was sin. The creation is cursed only after Adam sinned (cf. Genesis 3; Romans 5:12–21; 8:19–25). This implies that all the fossils of dead animals must date from after Adam’s fall. If there was blood and violence in the creation before Adam sinned, the theological structure of the biblical message would appear to suffer considerable dislocation"

Gap theory - Gen 1-2 ??

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