Atonement without blood according to Freelight.

marhig said:

The thing is, you don't understand what what blood of Christ is, it's not his natural blood. It's his poured out life, he came by water and by blood, by the word of God and he lived it out, it's his life poured out for us. And once he is resurrected in our hearts by the Spirit, then his life is poured into us by the Spirit and we are then covered in his blood, in his life. And as we die to self, others see his life in us, and this is how we are justified by his blood.



When Jesus said pull down this temple and I will raise it again in three days. That was spiritual, and it was later explained that he meant his body the temple. But if that hadn't of been explained, many here would be arguing until they are blue in the face that it was the natural temple. Because they don't read the Bible in the Spirit, and try to work out what it means through the flesh. We have to be patient do Gods will, and wait for him and he will reveal to us what we are to know.

Jesus said those who have ears to hear, hear! Jesus was full of the Holy Spirit and once his apostles were born of God they received the power of the Spirit also, and they spoke in the spirit. The blood is not his natural blood on the natural cross, he bore his cross and he bore witness to the truth and through him we are saved. By truly following him and living it, being a doer of the word, baring witness to the truth and truly following Jesus.

When Jesus preached that we should deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow him. He didn't mean for us to be crucified naturally, and to be crucified is for our flesh to be put to death, our life laid down, so that Christ can live through us to bring others back to God.

And those who are not willing to take up their cross are not worthy of him!

Jesus said that he came into this world to bare witness to the truth, not to die on a cross to save, he was saving before he was crucified, he didn't need to naturally sacrificed to save anyone but rather he came as a living sacrifice and saved as many as would believe in him. And those who are of the truth hear his voice. We are saved once we believe in him through faith, by the grace of God.

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You do not believe the sacrifice of the life of Christ on the cross had any redemptive value at all.

Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

LA

daqq said:

Amen, and if you understand those types, allegories, and parables, you will understand the writings of Paul just the same because he teaches the commandments and Testimony of Messiah. For example Romans 7:14-25 teaches us that "sin" dwells in the flesh, and that is to say, the "outer bounds" or badlands of the body temple; "the commons" or "profane area" of the temple, (even as used in Ezekiel). So this analogy coming from the Gospel accounts, (devils and demons), reveals that sins are likened to devils and things learned from devils, (devils and their doctrines; for every devil has a doctrine, or teaching, for testimony is spirit), but likewise shows that it mainly concerns "the flesh" or "outer bounds" of the temple. Therefore the "inner man" of the heart is protected from such corrosion, in other words, not "possessed" on the inside, (but there are evil beasts and wild creatures of all typological sorts dwelling in the "outer bounds" that need to be either tamed or cut off, lol). That is why king Agag was still around even after being slain in earlier days, and why he rears his ugly head again in Haman the Agagite, in the book of Esther; in the typology Agag is one of seven heads, seven mountains, seven kings. The Father does not physically slaughter His own creation or command His people to do so, (but carnal men like to interpret His Word that way).

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Daqq, I see what you are saying in what Jesus taught here.

Matthew 12

When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The evil spirits only have control of a man when he is swept and garnished. It's no good looking clean and right on the outside, we have to be furnished by the indwelling Holy Spirit so that the devil's can't enter back in once they have been cast out by Christ. Because if we turn back to our old lives of flesh again after we have been cleansed through Christ by the Spirit and let those devil's back in, then our lives will be worse than before and we will be pulled down into a deeper pit.

Lazy afternoon said:

You do not believe the sacrifice of the life of Christ on the cross had any redemptive value at all.

Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

LA

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I believe that Jesus fulfilled the prophesies of the old testament, and he endured unto death, EVEN the death on the cross, and he overcame Satan. But his death on the cross doesn't save us, we are saved through him, by his life. We are saved by the grace of God through faith.

marhig said:

I believe that Jesus fulfilled the prophesies of the old testament, and he endured unto death, EVEN the death on the cross, and he overcame Satan. But his death on the cross doesn't save us, we are saved through him, by his life. We are saved by the grace of God through faith.

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You are skirting around it.

You do not believe the sacrifice of Christ's life on the cross had any redemptive value.

Tell me, have you entered the Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, and why did it take the death of Christ to tear down the veil?

According to you, men partook of eternal life, before and after the cross.

Christs death was not needed you say.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

LA

marhig said:

Daqq, I see what you are saying in what Jesus taught here.

Matthew 12

When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The evil spirits only have control of a man when he is swept and garnished. It's no good looking clean and right on the outside, we have to be furnished by the indwelling Holy Spirit so that the devil's can't enter back in once they have been cast out by Christ. Because if we turn back to our old lives of flesh again after we have been cleansed through Christ by the Spirit and let those devil's back in, then our lives will be worse than before and we will be pulled down into a deeper pit.

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Yeah, the typology flows throughout; for instance the seven nations greater and mightier than the sons of Israel, (Deut 7:1), all have attributes, qualities, and characteristics strewn throughout different passages in the scripture. For some there is much said but others not so much. The Jebusites are as good an example as any; if you want to know what they are like it is recorded in the story where David takes Jerusalem and drives them out. They hide behind "the blind and the lame", thinking that David will not come up and take the city, but David's soul loathes those kind of blind and lame, (spirits), so he takes the city anyway. :chuckle:

Have you ever met someone who pretends not to understand anything they do not wish to believe by playing like they are blind or totally oblivious to what you are trying to say? There are plenty of that genos of Jebusite running around these parts, (lol). And of course there is the duo possessed, in the land of the Gergesenes, (Matt 8:28 KJV), and Gergesenos is simply a direct Greek transliteration of the Hebrew word for Girgashite, (Deut 7:1 and so on). That one is probably Legion as he is either the seventh or the eighth which is of the seven: no mortal man can bind him, or his tongue, especially in a forum atmosphere such as this; all sorts of blasphemies and putrid things come forth from his mouth, yea, when he opens his mouth the air about him is darkened with thick black smoke as if from the iron furnace of Egypt and the legions of the locusts of his doctrines come forth from the smoke. The tree is known by its/his fruit. :chuckle:

Lazy afternoon said:

Freelight rejects the atonement covering of His blood, and then claims to be a follower of Messiah.

You approved of his position.(the position of Judaism, which video you approved, as did Marhig)

LA

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Yeah, I thought the video was good and gave evidence from "the Lord's prayer", a parable in Matthew, and a passage from the epistle of James which all corroborate that thinking. But you never responded to the things I posted to you earlier in this thread. Why is that? You know the further we go the deeper you will be buried if you refuse to accept the Testimony of Yeshua and his apostles. So now can you please tell me what living water concerns? How do you drink it so as to have life? And do you realize your conscience is likened to a garment? How then do you wash your garment in the blood of the Lamb according to your understanding? Or is that just figurative because you say so while ignoring other things that are also clearly figurative? And since the blood of human beings is normally red when it flows then how is it that washing your robe in the blood of the Lamb whitens your robe? Also can you please explain how in your atonement theory the blood of the Lamb cleanses and covers a defiled or guilty conscience? How does your version of God's invisible blood atone for a guilty conscience? Especially since you said that Acts 20:28 was pretty obvious as to its meaning and we have two passages telling us that no one has ever seen or beheld Elohim at any time: if no one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time then how is it that anyone has ever seen His blood?

Lazy afternoon said:

You are skirting around it.

You do not believe the sacrifice of Christ's life on the cross had any redemptive value.

Tell me, have you entered the Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, and why did it take the death of Christ to tear down the veil?

According to you, men partook of eternal life, before and after the cross.

Christs death was not needed you say.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

LA

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So how do you enter in through his natural flesh (veil)on the cross LA? And do you believe that having our bodies washed with pure water is being cleaned with natural water? You're looking at the Bible through the flesh.

If you look in the verses you have quoted, it says that we enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus By a new and living way, consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say his flesh. Meaning he came and showed us a new and living way through his flesh by him living out out perfectly and now he is the perfect example to follow.

And we enter in by following him in the way. Which is a living way, we are to live it out on our lives. And how do we follow him? Through faith and by the grace of God, as this is how we are saved, and being forgiven of our past sins, we then shed our blood and we strive against sin as Jesus did, baring our cross and keep our faith to the end, regardless of what we have to face in our lives, and trust in God. And we enter in by the blood of Jesus, once we are born of God, and we receive the Holy Spirit, the breath of life, and as we die Christ is manifest in our lives by the Spirit and he will strengthen us to overcome our flesh, if we are are willing to lay down our lives, become living sacrifices and live by the will of God, and by doing so, we truly follow Jesus.

daqq said:

Yeah, the typology flows throughout; for instance the seven nations greater and mightier than the sons of Israel, (Deut 7:1), all have attributes, qualities, and characteristics strewn throughout different passages in the scripture. For some there is much said but others not so much. The Jebusites are as good an example as any; if you want to know what they are like it is recorded in the story where David takes Jerusalem and drives them out. They hide behind "the blind and the lame", thinking that David will not come up and take the city, but David's soul loathes those kind of blind and lame, (spirits), so he takes the city anyway. :chuckle:

Have you ever met someone who pretends not to understand anything they do not wish to believe by playing like they are blind or totally oblivious to what you are trying to say? There are plenty of that genos of Jebusite running around these parts, (lol). And of course there is the duo possessed, in the land of the Gergesenes, (Matt 8:28 KJV), and Gergesenos is simply a direct Greek transliteration of the Hebrew word for Girgashite, (Deut 7:1 and so on). That one is probably Legion as he is either the seventh or the eighth which is of the seven: no mortal man can bind him, or his tongue, especially in a forum atmosphere such as this; all sorts of blasphemies and putrid things come forth from his mouth, yea, when he opens his mouth the air about him is darkened with thick black smoke as if from the iron furnace of Egypt and the legions of the locusts of his doctrines come forth from the smoke. The tree is known by its/his fruit. :chuckle:

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Daqq I will properly look through your post a bit later, I'm just off to our house meeting. I want to have a good read and read the verses you have quoted too. Thanks

Lazy afternoon said:

The Lord gives understanding to His words which are not apparent to the casual reader, so they go off thinking the blood itself has some kind of magic power or something.

The blood of Christ cleanses from all sin.

Only a nit wit would think it refers to the liquid itself.

The truths of the NT are hidden in the OT and should be read in conjunction with the OT, which required explanation of their meaning by men of understanding from God.

but the truth still stands that it pleased God to bruise Him, and His righteous soul was made an offering for sin.

It does not say for sins.

At no time before Christ's death on the cross was His righteous soul made an offering for sin.



Without Christ's death on the cross, all humanity including all who walked with God, would be burnt up with the creation in the lake of fire.

Jesus Christ was born the second Adam, and was not born a Temple of the Holy Spirit. If He was then the atonement is not in effect.

The difference between He and Adam has to do with God being His Father and His Fathering by the Spirit which the first Adam never got to, for had Adam and Eve refused to eat of the forbidden tree, then they might well have eaten of the tree of life which Christ did in His growing up,( but then there was not in place yet much to keep them from sin.)

Jesus Christ was a first creation man, being made perfect. He was never a sinner, He just grew in statue and wisdom to become a mature man, and the only one of the first creation.

It was the giving up of that life to be granted a far higher life that has enabled us sinners to be joined with Him.

In the mean time our lives are being changed from Glory to glory as we eat of the living word of God, which was illegal until Christ satisfied the righteous law of God and paid the price required.

2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

There are many reasons why the changing is not complete for all in this life but the resurrection will complete it, unless one is reprobate.

LA

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Sorry I missed this post.

Where does it say in the Bible that it was illegal to eat off the living word of God until Christ satisfied the righteous law of God and paid the price required? (Which I'm taking you to mean is Jesus dying on the cross?)

What about Moses and all the prophets? Didn't they have the Holy Spirit?

Wasn't Jesus preaching the living word of God whilst he was alive? What fruits do you think the people were eating off when Jesus preached and lived it out? What were they healed by if nothing could have happened until Jesus died on the cross? and until Jesus had paid the price required which you see as that death on the cross?

Why did Jesus say, when they were taking him to be crucified, "if they can do this in a green tree, what can be done in a dry"? If the crucifixion was all good and Holy, why would he have said that?

Jesus paid the price by coming as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable to God, without spot or blemish because he didn't sin, he denied Satan and he came living by Gods will, and healing and reconciling by the word, Jesus was saving before they murdered him on the cross. He had finished the work that the father had given him to do before he went on the cross. Jesus being crucified to save us was not included in those works, the crucifixion was done by wicked men who's father was the devil and they went against the law of Moses which is "thou shalt not kill" and killed the holy son of the living God! It was a murder and it was cruel, the only thing good in that situation was Jesus overcoming Satan, and his loving and forgiving heart, praying to God to ask him to forgive those that murdered him. Jesus doing this in itself shows us that it was wrong to crucify him. Because if it was right, then Jesus wouldn't have had to ask God to forgive those who killed him!

Also, the price required by us to eat off the tree of Life, is our life! We have to become a living sacrifice as Jesus did and follow him, others can't see Christ in us if we are not willing to lay down our lives for them and God. Jesus said that the father never left him because he always does what pleases him. That goes for us too, we are to live by the will of God LA. And once we do this, and once we are put to death by the sword which turns every way to keep the way of the tree of life, then we can eat off it. If we're not willing for the death and to turn from the world, then we won't inherit the eternal life (which is the Holy Spirit in our heart) and once we are born of God we then have hope of eternal salvation, if we live by the will of God, endure our cross keep our faith until the end, fighting the good fight and through Christ, by the Spirit, overcoming evil with good and as we die daily, Christ then lives through us reconciling others to God.

If you believe that Jesus came to die on the cross to save you, then what would be the point of Jesus preaching the gospel, preaching the ministry of reconciliation if the word doesn't reconcile us to God? You might as well be like others here and start the gospel at the cross seeing that is what you are saved by! We are saved by his life, not his death. By the living word of the living God, and by his life within once God blesses us with the Holy Spirit poured out from the windows of heaven.

Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.



Hebrews 5

5So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

6As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

1Mind1Spirit said:

Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.



Hebrews 5

5So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

6As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

7Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

10Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

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how do you read them? IOW, whats your point?

daqq said:

Yeah, I thought the video was good and gave evidence from "the Lord's prayer", a parable in Matthew, and a passage from the epistle of James which all corroborate that thinking. But you never responded to the things I posted to you earlier in this thread. Why is that? You know the further we go the deeper you will be buried if you refuse to accept the Testimony of Yeshua and his apostles. So now can you please tell me what living water concerns? How do you drink it so as to have life? And do you realize your conscience is likened to a garment? How then do you wash your garment in the blood of the Lamb according to your understanding? Or is that just figurative because you say so while ignoring other things that are also clearly figurative? And since the blood of human beings is normally red when it flows then how is it that washing your robe in the blood of the Lamb whitens your robe? Also can you please explain how in your atonement theory the blood of the Lamb cleanses and covers a defiled or guilty conscience? How does your version of God's invisible blood atone for a guilty conscience? Especially since you said that Acts 20:28 was pretty obvious as to its meaning and we have two passages telling us that no one has ever seen or beheld Elohim at any time: if no one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time then how is it that anyone has ever seen His blood?

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Well you really are a nutter, who thinks you are just so spiritual

I am way ahead of you.

The blood of Christ cleanses from all sin, and for you to suggest a carnal understanding of that wipes out the sacrifice of Christs life on the cross as having any significance, then you really are worse off than what you suggest of others.

You super spirtualists are an epidemic here, so smart that you know nothing.

LA

marhig said:

So how do you enter in through his natural flesh (veil)on the cross LA? And do you believe that having our bodies washed with pure water is being cleaned with natural water? You're looking at the Bible through the flesh.

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You are stupid.

No one suggested that.

If you look in the verses you have quoted, it says that we enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus By a new and living way, consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say his flesh. Meaning he came and showed us a new and living way through his flesh by him living out out perfectly and now he is the perfect example to follow.

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You have replaced the death of Christ with your self effort to follow Christ.

The veil was rent from top to bottom at Christs death, not pre-cross.

And we enter in by following him in the way. Which is a living way, we are to live it out on our lives. And how do we follow him? Through faith and by the grace of God, as this is how we are saved, and being forgiven of our past sins, we then shed our blood and we strive against sin as Jesus did, baring our cross and keep our faith to the end, regardless of what we have to face in our lives, and trust in God. And we enter in by the blood of Jesus, once we are born of God, and we receive the Holy Spirit, the breath of life, and as we die Christ is manifest in our lives by the Spirit and he will strengthen us to overcome our flesh, if we are are willing to lay down our lives, become living sacrifices and live by the will of God, and by doing so, we truly follow Jesus.

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Well when you stand before God to give an account you might explain how Christ;s death did nothing to save man.

LA

marhig said:

Sorry I missed this post.

Where does it say in the Bible that it was illegal to eat off the living word of God until Christ satisfied the righteous law of God and paid the price required? (Which I'm taking you to mean is Jesus dying on the cross?)

What about Moses and all the prophets? Didn't they have the Holy Spirit?

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None could partake of eternal life until after the cross.

Jesus was speaking of what would occur after the cross when He had said--

Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
Joh 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Joh 6:52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Joh 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
Joh 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Why the flaming sword, Mary?

Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


LA

Lazy afternoon said:

Well you really are a nutter, who thinks you are just so spiritual

I am way ahead of you.

The blood of Christ cleanses from all sin, and for you to suggest a carnal understanding of that wipes out the sacrifice of Christs life on the cross as having any significance, then you really are worse off than what you suggest of others.

You super spirtualists are an epidemic here, so smart that you know nothing.

LA

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Now you are pretending to believe the same way Freelight, myself, and others believe to suit the momentary deficiency in your doctrine. You' re all over the board, all over the place, shifting with the wind, and you are everything you accuse me and others of being when you cannot defend your arguments. When it comes down to it you cannot explain what you believe from the scripture and when called upon to do so you start calling people names like nutter, spiritualist, and spiritist. I've already heard it all and you're nothing but another poor lost soul and a liar.

daqq said:

Now you are pretending to believe the same way Freelight, myself, and others believe to suit the momentary deficiency in your doctrine. You' re all over the board, all over the place, shifting with the wind, and you are everything you accuse me and others of being when you cannot defend your arguments. When it comes down to it you cannot explain what you believe from the scripture and when called upon to do so you start calling people names like nutter, spiritualist, and spiritist. I've already heard it all and you're nothing but another poor lost soul and a liar.

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easy friend.

Lazy afternoon said:

Well you really are a nutter, who thinks you are just so spiritual

I am way ahead of you.

The blood of Christ cleanses from all sin, and for you to suggest a carnal understanding of that wipes out the sacrifice of Christs life on the cross as having any significance, then you really are worse off than what you suggest of others.

You super spirtualists are an epidemic here, so smart that you know nothing.

LA

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Lazy afternoon said:

You are stupid.

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1) Breaking the commandments of Messiah from Matthew 5:22.
2) Breaking the commandments of Messiah from Matthew 7:1-5.
3) Displaying a defiled conscience according to Matthew 15:18-20.

Matthew 15:18-20 KJV
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Therefore by the evil thoughts, evil speak, calling people stupid and "nutter", (raca, blockhead, crazy, stupid, worthless, fool), and by the murders coming forth from your mouth; you show that you are not atoned like you claim to be. For you continually defile yourself by what comes forth from your mouth, which clearly proceeds from your heart, and you overtly despise, trample, and ignore the commandments of Messiah which are plainly written in the Word you claim to believe and uphold. Your conscience is not atoned, cleansed, or purged, but rather seared as if with a hot iron, just as Paul warns against. And why does he use the analogy of being seared as if with a hot iron? Because the conscience is likened to a garment just as I told you; and we are clearly commanded from multiple passages, (including Jude and the Apocalypse), to keep our garments clean, spotless, and washed in the blood of the Lamb, (as Paul also says, the washing of the water in the Word, Eph 5:26). However your conscience is clearly defiled and it is on display here for all to see by your own words, and your conscience is defiled because your atonement theory is bogus: and rather than resulting in a cleansed, purged, and atoned conscience, your atonement theory results in the searing and ignoring of your own conscience while you sin all the more because you imagine yourself to have a free pass to continue walking as you always did before you ever supposedly entered into the faith in Messiah. The real epidemic is you and yours who claim about two billion members on the planet last time I checked. :chuckle:

Lifting up the spiritual vibration......

Lifting up the spiritual vibration......

daqq said:

1) Breaking the commandments of Messiah from Matthew 5:22.
2) Breaking the commandments of Messiah from Matthew 7:1-5.
3) Displaying a defiled conscience according to Matthew 15:18-20.

Matthew 15:18-20 KJV
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Therefore by the evil thoughts, evil speak, calling people stupid and "nutter", (raca, blockhead, crazy, stupid, worthless, fool), and by the murders coming forth from your mouth; you show that you are not atoned like you claim to be. For you continually defile yourself by what comes forth from your mouth, which clearly proceeds from your heart, and you overtly despise, trample, and ignore the commandments of Messiah which are plainly written in the Word you claim to believe and uphold. Your conscience is not atoned, cleansed, or purged, but rather seared as if with a hot iron, just as Paul warns against. And why does he use the analogy of being seared as if with a hot iron? Because the conscience is likened to a garment just as I told you; and we are clearly commanded from multiple passages, (including Jude and the Apocalypse), to keep our garments clean, spotless, and washed in the blood of the Lamb, (as Paul also says, the washing of the water in the Word, Eph 5:26). However your conscience is clearly defiled and it is on display here for all to see by your own words, and your conscience is defiled because your atonement theory is bogus: and rather than resulting in a cleansed, purged, and atoned conscience, your atonement theory results in the searing and ignoring of your own conscience while you sin all the more because you imagine yourself to have a free pass to continue walking as you always did before you ever supposedly entered into the faith in Messiah. The real epidemic is you and yours who claim about two billion members on the planet last time I checked. :chuckle:

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Thank You daqq,

This is very important at this juncture in our discussion here,...to keep the tone pure, thoughts positive, oriented towards lifting each other UP in the Spirit, extending grace, serving the collective in love. This is what its all about, even if differing in point of view, interpretation of doctrines or concepts, we can still engage each other respectfully, with humility and with a mind to learn from one another, staying open to progressive revelation. In this manner we are our brother keeper, for our thoughts, words and actions have creative influence and power.

Let our sharing can be done in good conscience, with good motives, so we will not foster or trap ourselves in any negative karma (actions and their related consequences), helping to purify one another garments. You know this is true, and is the way and will of the Father, for Love is the fullfiling of the law. It is Love that covers, atones, restores, purifies, uplifts, empowers, makes whole. What avails? only faith, working thru love, and us abiding in the consciousness of the 'new creation'. As Paul, says...this is what avails,...circumcision and all works of the flesh profit nothing.....but the Spirit is Life. As we continue forward....let us keep this in mind, for every thought, word and action has karmic effects, for such is the universal law.

meshak said:

easy friend.

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When someone continually throws their trash at me eventually my dump truck gets full of their trash: where do you suppose I will empty my dump truck full of their trash? I will return the trash to its rightful owner.

freelight said:

Thank You daqq,

This is very important at this juncture in our discussion here,...to keep the tone pure, thoughts positive, oriented towards lifting each other UP in the Spirit, extending grace, serving the collective in love. This is what its all about, even if differing in point of view, interpretation of doctrines or concepts, we can still engage each other respectfully, with humility and with a mind to learn from one another, staying open to progressive revelation. In this manner we are our brother keeper, for our thoughts, words and actions have creative influence and power.

Let our sharing can be done in good conscience, with good motives, so we will not foster or trap ourselves in any negative karma (actions and their related consequences), helping to purify one another garments. You know this is true, and is the way and will of the Father, for Love is the fullfiling of the law. It is Love that covers, atones, restores, purifies, uplifts, empowers, makes whole. What avails? only faith, working thru love, and us abiding in the consciousness of the 'new creation'. As Paul, says...this is what avails,...circumcision and all works of the flesh profit nothing.....but the Spirit is Life. As we continue forward....let us keep this in mind, for every thought, word and action has karmic effects, for such is the universal law.

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True in walk and personal relationship with the Father and His Son, (the Word), and those who follow the Father and His Son, (the Word). But not so true in internet forum politics where people think they have the right to assassinate the character of someone else they do not know and have never met simply to "win" an argument. Character assassination is tantamount to murder in the doctrine of the Master because it is hate, (which is why he says that murders proceed from the heart and come forth from the mouth, Matthew 15:18-20, as quoted above), and likewise therefore whosoever hates his brother is a murderer, and we know that no murderer has eternal life dwelling in him, (1John 3:15). If therefore one is going to assume the right to judge others, in violation of the commandments of Messiah, the same should not be surprised to find that judgment meted right back out to them because our judgment really means nothing in the overall scheme of things anyway, (except in the better way, when we judge our own selves). However, in this case, it was clearly on-topic because what has transpired shows that the atonement theory of LA is neither efficacious nor advantageous.