ECT We can only regain Eden by gaining the mastery over appetite

ThreeAngels

ThreeAngels

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Man fell through the indulgence of appetite. God had given him all the trees that were 'good for food' Genesis 2:9. He did not need to eat of the tree of knowledge. In the work of redemption Jesus began just where man had fallen. It was in order to break the power of appetite that He fasted for forty days. Jesus would not have been tried on this point if man would not face a similar temptation. Man can gain immortality only by overcoming as Christ overcame.
 
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daqq

Well-known member
ThreeAngels said:
Man fell through the indulgence of appetite. God had given him all the trees that were 'good for food' Genesis 2:9. He did not need to eat of the tree of knowledge. In the work of redemption Jesus began just where man had fallen. It was in order to break the power of appetite that He fasted for forty days. Jesus would not have been tried on this point if man would not face a similar temptation. Man can gain immortality only by overcoming as Christ overcame.
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It is much deeper but along the same lines. The Nazarite vow is the source text. Meshiah the Nazarene shows the Way to regain Eden; for the tree was a vine-tree and its fruit like that of the grape, (Num 6:4 KJV, Eze 15:2 KJV, Eze 18:2, 3, Jer 31:29, 30, 31, Enoch 31:3-5, "Ye Shall Be Holy For I Am Holy" #2, #4), and of course that grape is sour, (sting of death).
 
ThreeAngels

ThreeAngels

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Nick M said:
So the Lord Jesus Christ died for nothing.
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He died so that He can give us grace to overcome all things. We must overcome or we cannot be saved. Jesus plainly says, "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." Revelation 3:21, 21:7
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

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ThreeAngels said:
He died so that He can give us grace to overcome all things. We must overcome or we cannot be saved. Jesus plainly says, "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." Revelation 3:21, 21:7
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Did Christ die for your sins, and rise for your justification?
 
Nick M

Nick M

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I'll show you what StP was talking about. I don't have the original link. Most of them I do, not this one. Because John W was using the quotation marks rather than quote tags.

godrulz said:
Nick's view seems to reduce us to sock puppet automatons and requires ignoring large sections of Scripture. He also misunderstands the nature of faith vs works, morals vs metaphysics, Star Trek vs Star Wars, Venus vs Mars, etc]....You are simplistic to think it is a matter of what the Bible says when you interpret and twist to fit a preconceived idea. It is arrogant to assume that godly, capable, great thinkers through the centuries who reject MAD (new doctrine anyway) are clueless or without the leading of the Spirit
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Nick M

Nick M

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SaulToPaul said:
Star Trek vs Star Wars
Justification vs Initial Justification
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Here is that one.

godrulz said:
I believe it in context, not as a proof text for your views. Justification is about our initial coming to Christ when we are declared righteous (legal term) and our past sins are dealt with. At that point of conversion, there are no future sins yet. Reconciliation deals with our past sins....My objection is to think we can persist in sheer rebellion, sin, and disobedience with impunity because non-existent sins have blanket forgiveness just because our past sins were dealt with at justification.
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Nick M

Nick M

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As long as I have godrulz's folder open....

godrulz said:
You are guilty of eisegesis because you are clueless about theology and exegesis.

We can read and quote the same verses, but interpret them differently, just like millions of Christians do.

I accept that we are dead to sin and alive to Christ, but other verses also teach against your sinless perfectionism. What does it mean? I can reject your wrong understanding without rejecting Bible, gospel, Christ.

You are wrongly assuming you are infallible and anyone who disagrees with you is a dope (despite your views being refuted over and over throughout church history from the Bible).

Your circ gospel post cross is what rejects the gospel of grace, whereas non-Calvinistic views do not, despite how much Calvinists jump up and down promoting straw man myths about free will theism.
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I could not say this to somebody with a straight face.
 
Nick M

Nick M

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SaulToPaul said:
Star Trek vs Star Wars
Justification vs Initial Justification
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I found another one.

godrulz said:
Romans 4:7 is talking about initial justification, not subsequent lapses. Our past sins are not counted against us. This does not mean that God is blind to our future sins and winks at them as we fall into them again. It should not be extrapolated as unconditional forgiveness while persisting in sin in the future. There is provision for future sin, but the forgiveness of non-existent sins does not make sense (you are an Open Theist who should know a specific sin may or may not come to pass).
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D

daqq

Well-known member
ThreeAngels said:
Man fell through the indulgence of appetite. God had given him all the trees that were 'good for food' Genesis 2:9. He did not need to eat of the tree of knowledge. In the work of redemption Jesus began just where man had fallen. It was in order to break the power of appetite that He fasted for forty days. Jesus would not have been tried on this point if man would not face a similar temptation. Man can gain immortality only by overcoming as Christ overcame.
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It seems as if no one else here actually understands your OP? Perhaps you might elaborate and use more scripture? Are you hinting at some form of vegetarianism or veganism? ("Thou shalt not murder-kill", period, without stipulation, hehe)? Or more so speaking of overcoming and "attaining" to the resurrection as Paul speaks about? For example, concerning what you might mean (?) about immortality; Paul teaches not to have a mind whereas we might assume we have already "obtained" or "arrived" at such things, and he mentions this in the context of the resurrection, (Philippians 3:10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15). Perhaps you might narrow and define the topic a little more? :)
 
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