The Parables of the Lost Prove People Are Born In Christ

Samie

New member
In Luke 15, Jesus discussed the parables of the lost sheep, the lost coin, and the lost son.

Notice:
1. Before the sheep was lost, it was with its owner. vv4 – 7
2. Before the coin was lost, it was with the woman. vv8 – 10
3. Before the son was lost, he was with his father. vv11 – 24

The lost sheep, the lost coin, and the lost son, did not start out lost. So with us sinners: Before we got lost we were initially with God. We were born NOT lost. And to be NOT lost is to be in Christ. Therefore, we were born in Christ, instead of born in sin.

If you still teach that people are born in sin, then you are teaching that people start out lost, and that's against what Christ taught that the lost sheep, lost coin and lost son did not start out lost. Will you teach what Christ taught, and preach what he preached? Your choice…
 

False Prophet

New member
Where does Universal Salvation come from?
Narrow is the road that leads to life, and few are those who find it.
Broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many are those that go therein.

The Bahai teach that all religions are good. Is this where universal salvation comes from?
 

Samie

New member
That we all were born in Christ is universal. But as to who will make it to heaven and eternity is another story. Only the overcomers will. Rev 3:5, 21; 20:15; 21:27
 

ttruscott

Well-known member
In Luke 15, Jesus discussed the parables of the lost sheep, the lost coin, and the lost son.

Notice:
1. Before the sheep was lost, it was with its owner. vv4 – 7
2. Before the coin was lost, it was with the woman. vv8 – 10
3. Before the son was lost, he was with his father. vv11 – 24

The lost sheep, the lost coin, and the lost son, did not start out lost. So with us sinners: Before we got lost we were initially with God.

Your premise is correct but your conclusion is off.

IF we were with GOD before the creation of the physical universe and in that time and place we chose by our free will to choose between holiness and evil, and THEN all sinners who chose evil were sent to earth to be born as sinners, then we were indeed with GOD without sin and then lost by our choice to sin and then born as sinners on earth. Just like the plain (no metaphor) explanation of the good seed Matt 13:36+

We were born NOT lost.
This contradicts the ordinary meaning of too many scriptures. Our pre-conception existence does not contradict any scripture.
 

Samie

New member
Your premise is correct but your conclusion is off.

IF we were with GOD before the creation of the physical universe and in that time and place we chose by our free will to choose between holiness and evil, and THEN all sinners who chose evil were sent to earth to be born as sinners, then we were indeed with GOD without sin and then lost by our choice to sin and then born as sinners on earth. Just like the plain (no metaphor) explanation of the good seed Matt 13:36+
I don't teach this.

This contradicts the ordinary meaning of too many scriptures. . .
Such as? Can you please cite even a couple of the "too many" that contradict my position that people are born not lost?
 

ttruscott

Well-known member
I don't teach this.

Such as? Can you please cite even a couple of the "too many" that contradict my position that people are born not lost?
All your arguments are sound...but misplaced in time from when they really happened (sheep going astray etc) pre-earth to our births on earth. I take it you didn't get the message of the parable of the good seed Matt 13:36+? Or are you going to share what you think it means about when we sinned and how we got here??

I suspect that you have all your argumenta in place against anyone who argues so I will only mention 2 more: Jacob and Esau trying to murder each other by crushing each other to pieces, the real meaning of the word jostle, while they were fighting over who would be first born - an impossibility without a life before their conception as human in which to learn it...
AND
the disciples believed a man could be punished for sin he did before his conception that had him to be born blind, without, may I say, being rebuked for such a strange idea by Jesus. He did not say no one could sin before he was born but that this man's sin did not cause his blindness since he was blind so the Messiah could do one of the proof miracles that only the Messiah could do, to heal a man born blind.

Did you ever think about where they got this strange idea of sinning before conception since it has no place in their religion? And it only came up after spending the last 3 years with the Christ??

I agree - WE WERE NOT CREATED AS LOST ! BUT OUR BIRTH / CONCEPTION WAS NOT OUR CREATION! And between our creation as ingenuous innocents and our conception / birth was our free will choice to be evil in HIS sight by either rejecting YHWH's deity or HIS plans for HIS creation. None are good, not one means that only sinners are sown into / born on earth.
 

Samie

New member
Hi ttruscott,

I respect your position that people have pre-birth existence, but I don't believe in it because there is simply no biblical basis for it. Your citing of the jostling of Esau and Jacob for birthright, and the sinning of the blind man before his birth as proofs of your belief. But I don't think they prove anything.

Jacob asked Esau to sell him his birthright, and Esau consented. It seems clear to Jacob that Esau is the elder and has the birthright, otherwise he would not have asked Esau to sell his birthright to him. I can't see how you relate the buying and selling of birthright with a pre-earth existence.
 
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