No.
The houses of Judah and Israel who became a blessing to the world after Pentecost and began the Church, establishing churches, were not the former people who were disobedient to God and were a curse among the nations.
LA
ECT Israel Will be a Blessing to the World
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
No.
The houses of Judah and Israel who became a blessing to the world after Pentecost and began the Church, establishing churches, were not the former people who were disobedient to God and were a curse among the nations.
LA
Interplanner
Well-known member
They couldn't be the same simply because the vision is about another generation, but the prophets often made a direct link between generations and their people's destiny, and so here he meant that a generation was coming that would actually complete what the original promise had said: all nations will be blessed. It must still be considered to be true only in Christ. It is not meant to be true just as an ethne. That's the final word from the NT.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You talk out of both sides of your mouth. The two houses who will be a blessing are the same two houses who were in the past a "curse" among the nations:
"And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing" (Zech.8:8,13).
According to your silly idea the people from those houses who will be a blessing are not the same people who were a curse among the Gentiles!
Can you not provide a grown up answer?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
When these words of the LORD were first given to the Jews they understood that the promise was directed toward them:
"And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing" (Zech.8:8,13).
Down trough time, after the Jews received that promise, they knew it would be fulfilled and it the promise would be fulfilled in them.
But according to your argument the LORD made that promise and the fulfillment was never going to be fulfilled in the Jews but instead in others. In other words, He was deceiving the Jews when He lead them to believe that the promise would be fulfilled in them.
And with that argument you justify your theology and are as proud as punch of yourself!
You claim Christ's cross did not join the two sticks together, making them one nation in His hand. Acts ch 2.
Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Luk 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
Luk 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Act 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Nothing was put off to the future concerning salvation.
Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Robert Breaker, your teacher, is a deceived liar.
LA
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
That will not happen until the following things take place:
"Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land...And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever" (Ez.37:19-25).
You still have not provided a reasonable answer concerning the identity of those who make up the house of Israel and the house of Judah in this passage:
"And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing" (Zech.8:8,13).
Who is Robert Breaker?
The houses of Israel and Judah became one stick in Gods hand from Pentecost (Acts ch 2)onward, being joined together by the Spirit in the promised Kingdom of God.
and from that time on they were a blessing.
It was from that time on that men from all nations began ---
Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
The saints inherit a Kingdom which will rule over all remaining nations.
You believe only the Jews are those saints.
Only Spiritual Jews of any flesh are the apple of Gods eye.
Only Israel of the Spirit of any flesh will inherit the Kingdom of God.
LA
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Why do you refuse to believe the prophecy I quoted you that demonstrates that will not happen until the physical descendants of Israel are brought back to the land the LORD gave to Jacob and they will remain there for ever?
All you have proven to me is that you place what some men say about the Scriptures above what the Scriptures actually say.
Israel was bought out of Babylon to the land after the prophecies in Ezekiel and they received salvation in Acts.
which is why it was said to them--
Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Act 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
LA
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Once they came back to the land from Babylon later they were moved from that land. But in this prophecy the Jews will be brought back to the land and will dwell there FOR EVER:
"Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land...And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever" (Ez.37:19-25).
All you do time after time is to try to pervert every single prophecy which does not match your discredited ideas. And this time is no exception.
So you think this earth will not burn up.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
There us time from the two sticks being joined together (at Pentecost) and the Bride inheriting the Kingdom with their new children from all peoples dwelling in the land.
LA
Interplanner
Well-known member
I guess it does not matter to Jerry, or did not occur to him, that Christ and the apostles spoke after Ezek and Jer, too. We now know that Christ himself is the inheritance, the 'land' that was to be never taken away again. He and his people are the 'city' that awaits where God is the sun, and Chris is the temple, and everything is 'new'--in new categories, too.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Again, you ignore the fact that when the two sticks will be joined together both houses will be in the land which the LORD gave to Jacob and they will dwell in that land for ever.
So now you are trying to prove that what is said in those verses is not true! You are a sad case!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
What could possibly be more ridiculous than the idea that the Lord Jesus is the "land" which the LORD gave to Jacob:
"And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever" (Ez.37:25).
All you prove is the fact that you will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course it will. You obviously have no understanding of the Hebrew word translated "for ever" or else you woukd understand that it is referring to time until the end of things as we know them. And here Paul is speaking of that end:
"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power" (1 Cor.15:24).
So I will ask you a question. What do you think that the words "for ever" mean in this verse:
"And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever" (Ez.37:15).
How long?
Interplanner
Well-known member
It is forever, but since nothing in this created world can be forever (for the reason you just mentioned), the prophet's declaration is true 'in Christ.' That is always what was meant.
:doh:
I see you're already headed for this year's contest winner of the PrizeBeatsOne Self-Delusion of the Year Award.
I always tune in to see what Dano says :chuckle:
Wish I could say as much of your posts :chuckle: