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Thread: Discussion: Jerry Shugart vs Door

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Because the grace of God never fails us, but we fail the grace of God.
    So your answer to the question as to why the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death, is that we fail the grace of God?

    Exactly how do you think someone fails grace?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Door View Post
    So your answer to the question as to why the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death, is that we fail the grace of God?

    Exactly how do you think someone fails grace?
    For starters, they fail to execute 1 John 1:9
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Door View Post
    So your answer to the question as to why the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death, is that we fail the grace of God?
    You forgot "The grace of God never fails us" part
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    For starters, they fail to execute 1 John 1:9
    What??? How does someone "fail grace" by sinning? That is just stupid. If you are not sinning, you don't need grace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    You forgot "The grace of God never fails us" part
    Your's and Jerry's whole argument is based on the fact that you claim that God's grace fails us. If God's grace did not fail us, then we would not be leaking the Holy Spirit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    You forgot "The grace of God never fails us" part

    Unfortunately Tetelestai, you are reducing God's grace to mere sentiment.

    The grace of God has a basis, and it is a legal basis. In order for God to show grace to sinners, the legal demands of the Law had to be met and satisfied.

    Jesus Christ obeyed all the Law all the time; therefore, His cross work and vicarious death on behalf of His people was acceptable to God. Only on this basis and the legal imputation of His righteousness to those He represented in His incarnation and Mediation, is God' grace bestowed.

    You are correct in that grace cannot fail us, but that is because Jesus Christ did not fail to keep all the law. And if He has already fulfilled and kept the Law sinlessly and perfectly on our behalf, there is no reason for us to live under obligation to the Law any longer, but rather we are to walk in the freedom of His grace; rejoicing in His righteousness, not our own.

    Nang
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Now regarding Galatians 5:16,19-21
    now the works of the flesh are manifest: adultery, fornications, all uncleaness etc...
    thats talking about the works of the flesh. how can you equate the works of the flesh with walking according to the flesh? one is talking how you think about your relationship to the law and your position in Christ. The Other is talking about what the flesh does and the only thing it does when it is activated. when you put yourself under the law(walk according to the flesh). you activate the flesh and allow it to function.

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    I find it interesting that Jerry and tetelestai are going back and forth like a roaring lion looking for verses that condemn Christians in order to bring them back under the yoke of the Law, and in bondage to sin and death. They seriously believe that what makes them righteous, holy, blameless, and filled with the Spirit is not anything Christ has done, but how astute they are at finding fault and confessing them. They are their own mediator.

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    Does Whatever A Light-House Can Lighthouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Door View Post
    So then you have always believed that no Christian can be carnal. Is that right?
    He thinks that a Christian can become carnal, and is therefore no longer a Christian.


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    So godrulz think once a christian becomes carnal, he is no longer a christian? what happened to the unique sin of unbelief? or does he equate carnality with unbelief?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Door View Post
    What??? How does someone "fail grace" by sinning? That is just stupid. If you are not sinning, you don't need grace.
    Not by sinning, by not confessing the sin.
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Door View Post
    Your's and Jerry's whole argument is based on the fact that you claim that God's grace fails us. If God's grace did not fail us, then we would not be leaking the Holy Spirit.
    I specifically said God’s grace never fails us
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Not by sinning, by not confessing the sin.
    I don't even know where to begin with how wrong this is.


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  16. #104
    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Unfortunately Tetelestai, you are reducing God's grace to mere sentiment.

    The grace of God has a basis, and it is a legal basis. In order for God to show grace to sinners, the legal demands of the Law had to be met and satisfied.

    Jesus Christ obeyed all the Law all the time; therefore, His cross work and vicarious death on behalf of His people was acceptable to God. Only on this basis and the legal imputation of His righteousness to those He represented in His incarnation and Mediation, is God' grace bestowed.

    You are correct in that grace cannot fail us, but that is because Jesus Christ did not fail to keep all the law. And if He has already fulfilled and kept the Law sinlessly and perfectly on our behalf, there is no reason for us to live under obligation to the Law any longer, but rather we are to walk in the freedom of His grace; rejoicing in His righteousness, not our own.

    Nang
    Nang other than the “those He represented” part, I agree with everything you say. The “those He represented” part is a limited atonement/unlimited atonement thing, so we won’t bother to get side tracked off of the subject of the thread by discussing that.

    We live under grace not the law. The subject of this thread is whether a believer has to confess his or her sins after salvation.

    I believe that a believer has to confess his or her sins after salvation in order to “walk in the light”, or be filled with the Spirit.

    There are many things a believer needs to do to spiritually mature. Prayer and reading the Bible are other examples. These have nothing to do with faith and faith alone, or adding works to faith, or obeying any type of law.

    All believers commit sins. When a believer sins they need to confess the sin in order to get back on the path of spiritual growth.
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    I don't even know where to begin with how wrong this is.
    Since all you ever do is tell people they are wrong, yet never elaborate as to why, I suggest you start here.

    Explain why a believer confessing his or her sins as described in 1 John 1:9 is wrong.

    Go ahead, I’m all ears.
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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