Give me biblical support for Christmas.

1Mind1Spirit said:

If God represents the tree and the wafers Christ I don't see a problem.

Satan putting his own nest in there, well......

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And that comes down to the individual and how they address it, which is what I keep saying to the new guy. Our tree has white lights, ribbon, and an ornament from each year of our marriage, selected to represent a particular blessing of the year. Atop the tree is the noel star.

Town Heretic said:

Given my "case" is simply that Christmas and the trappings essential to it can be and for most of us are completely comfortable as an expression of our faith in celebration of the birth of Jesus, as set out in the gospels.

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oh good...that is important...your vanity and in vain...but hey you are comfortable...HE HATES IT...says..."Do not bring a detestable thing into your house or you, like it, will be set apart for destruction. Regard it as vile and utterly detest it, for it is set apart for destruction." Notice it's not worship a graven image but just do not bring a detestable thing...

Glad you can ignore and deny Him...and be comfortable

The abomination and sin is in you, not in it.

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ummm...no...nothing from outside can defile me...the fact that your heart and mind are defiled allows you to rationalize "But I thought of you" during your fornication and adultery as idolatry is also called...your heart your mind defiled allows the detestable thing into your house not mine...HE HIS SPIRIT is in me is why I see it HIS WAY...

We do less for our earthly friends when asked not to because they don't like it...but YOU JUST GOTTA INSIST despite its your Saviour Creator

It's like a tattoo...you don't just wake up with it...you think about it first and then sit still for it...so it's not the tattoo itself but the fact you thought about it chose a design and sat and endured the pain to get it...how about other body modifications? Branding? All painful all planned prior by a defiled mind for the sake of VANITY...And we whine about circumcision...lol

So you should abstain. It's not a sacrament. It's not a commandment.

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I do abstain and because it is a commandment not to learn the ways of the heathen...or inventing another way for false worship

I also abstain not because I wish to be saved...but because I already am and well He asked me not to do that...duh...

No, there isn't. The Romans and some pagans placed limbs of fragrant trees and used holly. The Christmas tree is our own invention and a fine tradition.

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http://www.zmescience.com/science/history-science/origin-christmas-tree-pagan/

If you want to say you're not anti-Catholic I'll simply point to the apparent distinction between that declaration and your writing on the point. In any event, I'm not Catholic so it's not really my fight.

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lol...never denied it...merely said at that point reading those symbols...Eucharist bread in the tree...was well horror...no wait detestable...hmmmm...maybe Someone else is anti universalism too?

lain: Or, it was a further underscoring of the point and purpose originated in a time when the Catholic Church was it.

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fuh fuh fuh...hmmm yes yes it was...put bread in a tree and viola its Christian custom representing Christian traditions held since the beginning when He said celebrate my birthday...

Noooo, you don't have a problem with Catholicism just because you call their doctrine cannibalism. lain: You can take up most of what followed in your stream of unconsciousness with a member of that particular. And were I Catholic I'd likely respond that you're too flippant with the Holy to enter into a serious discourse on it.

By way of illustration:

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not chewing the host is indeed a teaching...again not my fault it's an counterfeiting abomination...one the reformers barely began to correct...

He wasn't nailed to a tree. So why the cartoonish attempt to stretch a thing into something you can mock. That's a lot of straw in the air. Let's hope you aren't a smoker.

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tree torture stake were also descriptions of the cross...symbolism is not an exact science of comparing equals you do realize

Really.

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only if you wish to ignore or deceive...

I'm not Catholic. Neither are most Americans who put up a Christmas tree. I

You're spiraling.

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not the issue...you said it is not a rite (or specific to anyone) or that we have to...some do...

That is the issue...some are obligated and wherever they go they establish their law...and influence their neighbors...change customs and traditions...

Which is why it is Best not to learn the ways of the pagan or heathen...lol...


There was a time most Americans didn't celebrate Christmas or put up a Christmas tree...because christmas was considered pagan, or too English...

But then the masses with their masses came and demographics shifted to those who are obligated to keep christmas...merchant men saw to exploit it and well...

Alas Americans will continue to fulfill its prophetic role and bring worship to the first beast...with their mass for Christ...

The law you establish merely reveal your heart...

If you don't see it His way you don't establish His law...

Town Heretic said:

And that comes down to the individual and how they address it, which is what I keep saying to the new guy. Our tree has white lights, ribbon, and an ornament from each year of our marriage, selected to represent a particular blessing of the year. Atop the tree is the noel star.

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My guess is you didn't marry your childhood sweetheart.

Town Heretic said:

And that comes down to the individual and how they address it, which is what I keep saying to the new guy. Our tree has white lights, ribbon, and an ornament from each year of our marriage, selected to represent a particular blessing of the year. Atop the tree is the noel star.

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I reckon ole saint Nick was a pedophile sneakin' around the kids room in the night.

Not sure how that would tie in to the nicolaitans.

ok doser said:

ok, you've officially jumped the shark of retardedness :nono:


congratulations! :thumb:

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There is a group of people for which the gospel of the cross is foolishness...

Mickiel said:

The truth is coming out ; in all kinds of places ;

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/cmas1.htm

Summary;

An interesting site , it gives the common oncoming information about the truth behind Christmas, which so many "Small sections of un famous people" are finding out. Strange how all these so called 'Cult places" are seeing the same things. The Christian tire is being deflated.

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Great site and post, I agree with you.

Christmas is pagan

Easter is also pagan

And the Trinity is pagan.

All brought into the "Christian church" by the RCC.

1Mind1Spirit said:

My guess is you didn't marry your childhood sweetheart.

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And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why you should always post sober. lain:

Santa is a fun thing for kids inspired by Saint Nicholas. It was a merging of the Nordic tradition in which their children enjoyed Odin in a similar fashion.

The Christmas tree originated in Germany in the 1500's, which was inspired by the Nordic tradition of dressing evergreens in reverence to Baldr, the god of peace and justice.

Pretty much, before Christmas was Christmas, it was Yule . When the Vikings were finally Christianized their traditions followed.

clefty said:

oh good...that is important...your vanity and in vain

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I suspect you could make the film Lassie sound like a porno...at least to yourself. lain:

...but hey you are comfortable...HE HATES IT...

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No, that voice is yours. And you only hate it because you see the detestable where it doesn't exist without you.

says..."Do not bring a detestable thing into your house or you, like it, will be set apart for destruction. Regard it as vile and utterly detest it, for it is set apart for destruction." Notice it's not worship a graven image but just do not bring a detestable thing...

Glad you can ignore and deny Him...and be comfortable

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Whereas I'm sorry you confuse your voice with His.

ummm...no...nothing from outside can defile me...the fact that your heart and mind are defiled

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I didn't say anything outside of you did. I said you created it. It begins within you and you project it without.

And now you're trying to pitch hit for Him and you think vanity is my problem. lain:

allows you to rationalize

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Rather, clear consideration allows me to be rational, even in the face of this goofery.

"But I thought of you" during your fornication and adultery as idolatry is also called...your heart your mind defiled allows the detestable thing into your house not mine...HE HIS SPIRIT is in me is why I see it HIS WAY...

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That was...incoherent of you.

I do abstain and because it is a commandment not to learn the ways of the heathen

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Which is only happening to others in your fevered mind.

http://www.zmescience.com/science/history-science/origin-christmas-tree-pagan/

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The paradise tree, from which the Christmas tree descended, was never a pagan instrument. The article you link to uses the Christmas tree to grab attention, but if you actually read it, as I noted a while ago, there's no tree. Fragrant limbs of cedar and fir have been used wherever they exist. Most religions, throughout history, have more in common than what separates them, as important as that separation is to each adherent. And we've already spoken to the thing you keep getting backwards.

In any event, it's been a long time since the Roman Empire fell and Saturnalia this isn't.

only if you wish to ignore or deceive...

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Complete nonsense.

not the issue...you said it is not a rite (or specific to anyone) or that we have to...some do...

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I speak for me and for the traditions of the protestant church, which constitutes the majority of Christendom in our nation. You'll have to talk to a Catholic if you want their perspective on the point, as I noted.

There was a time most Americans didn't celebrate Christmas or put up a Christmas tree...because christmas was considered pagan, or too English...

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They've been here a very long time. Morris created electric lights for them in 1895 because of a few notorious fires that started with people using candles on the trees. It wasn't so much about resistance as the spread of the tradition, that only came to England around 1830 and then crossed the pond.

Alas Americans will continue to fulfill its prophetic role and bring worship to the first beast...with their mass for Christ...

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Nooo, you don't have a problem with Catholicism at all.

The law you establish merely reveal your heart...

If you don't see it His way you don't establish His law...

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Rather, I don't conflate or confuse His understanding with your understanding.

"Christmas has no precedent in scriptures, but Christians don't need that, they create celebrations and doctrines then treat them as if they have biblical support. This includes many of the activities within their church services , such as the education and ordination of the clergy, routines used in their youth ministry , their methods of raising money for the ministry, the way music is used in the ministry, and even the presence and nature of church buildings ." ( Frank Viola " Pagan Christianity" introduction.)

These historical periods changed the church forever; the era of Constantine, the decades surrounding the Protestant Reformation and the Revivalist period of the 18th and 19th centuries. And passionate well meaning followers of Christ made these changes. And the church went along for the ride. The "Boys choir" came from paganism , the " Funeral procession", The " Worship team" was created by Calvary Chapel in 1965 patterned after the secular rock concert.

Infant baptism came fro Greco-Roman culture. Tithing , the clergy salary , the contemporary sermon , the pastors chair , I tell you the list is large! All super ingrained and planted within the church like a Trojan Horse.

Town Heretic said:

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why you should always post sober. lain:

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So you reckon the marriage has already taken place?

Mickiel said:

"Christmas has no precedent in scriptures, but Christians don't need that, they create celebrations and doctrines then treat them as if they have biblical support. This includes many of the activities within their church services , such as the education and ordination of the clergy, routines used in their youth ministry , their methods of raising money for the ministry, the way music is used in the ministry, and even the presence and nature of church buildings ." ( Frank Viola " Pagan Christianity" introduction.)

These historical periods changed the church forever; the era of Constantine, the decades surrounding the Protestant Reformation and the Revivalist period of the 18th and 19th centuries. And passionate well meaning followers of Christ made these changes. And the church went along for the ride. The "Boys choir" came from paganism , the " Funeral procession", The " Worship team" was created by Calvary Chapel in 1965 patterned after the secular rock concert.

Infant baptism came fro Greco-Roman culture. Tithing , the clergy salary , the contemporary sermon , the pastors chair , I tell you the list is large! All super ingrained and planted within the church like a Trojan Horse.

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There's no biblical support for these things, religions are building their own history and support. Churches use stained glass windows , where do you think that came from and why? Churches are tax exempt - why? Churches have pulpits-what is the origin of that? Do you care? They take the Lords supper quarterly , why did that start? The "Altar call" who started that? The contemporary sermon, guess how that was borrowed. Clergy attire , the collection plate, even the bible college; you ever wonder where these things originated? You been taught not to care.

clefty said:

Rubbish...I ain't here to please da pagans...I mean here on this planet not forum...no pagans here no sirreee...lol

Besides He didn't ask for a bday...He asked we do His Father's will...

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Amen, no scripture speaks of celebrating his birthday.

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1Mind1Spirit said:

I reckon ole saint Nick was a pedophile sneakin' around the kids room in the night.

Not sure how that would tie in to the nicolaitans.

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I imagine what He HATES covers a broad spectrum of activity not permitted by Him...and seeing as millstones hung around necks to perps and being thrown into the seas was included in His rant against hurting children I think He HATES hurting children...

I also imagine He HATES corrupting children with falsehood...physical trauma can be overcome but few are the children that realize the damage of being deceived, taught lies, like His example don't matter...just claim to be saved, it's grace alone, nevermind His laws they are fulfilled-destroyed, and choose whatever whenever...as long as you are fully convinced...

He HATES that...a good father doesn't give a stone to his child starving for bread...

Mickiel said:

Lets just say I am someone you met in a store. You announced your a believer in God. I asked you if Christmas was biblical, you said yes. I then asked you to show me that biblical support, because I myself have never seen any.

So, show me.

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May not be what you're looking for, but I hope it helps.

new.kgov.com/Christmas

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keypurr said:

Amen, no scripture speaks of celebrating his birthday.

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Better a good name than costly oil,
The day of death than the day of birth.
Better to go to the house of mourning
Than to the house of feasting,
For to this end everyone comes,
Let the living take this to heart.
[Ecclesiastes 7:1, 2 New Jerusalem Bible]

keypurr said:

Amen, no scripture speaks of celebrating his birthday.

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You mean other than the shepherds called from their fields by an angelic host, wise men from the east bringing gifts and a star hanging over the town.

That sounds like Christmas to me.

1Mind1Spirit said:

So you reckon the marriage has already taken place?

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Are you sure you're having this conversation with me? Because on my end it's reading like a series of segues. :think:

And not the fun, capitalized kind that take you somewhere.

Town Heretic said:

You mean other than the shepherds called from their fields by an angelic host, wise men from the east bringing gifts and a star hanging over the town.

That sounds like Christmas to me.


Are you sure you're having this conversation with me? Because on my end it's reading like a series of segues. :think:

And not the fun, capitalized kind that take you somewhere.

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You know I am speaking of a yearly event.

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Town Heretic said:

You mean other than the shepherds called from their fields by an angelic host, wise men from the east bringing gifts and a star hanging over the town.

That sounds like Christmas to me.

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was it the 25th of December? Did they bring a Christmas tree? Did they bring gifts? Did they celebrate a mass? Eat His flesh? Joke about a man in red bringing more gifts? How about eggnog...Christmas ham...?

I mean sure think and celebrate His birth everyday...but they didn't even celebrate His 1st birthday...as in a mere year later...

They followed the other feasts...you know the ones expected of those claiming to be His people but no mention of Christ mass...until well about 300 years later...by those who wished to keep of with the joneses and make their faith less Jewish and more appealing to those who like...you know, pretty decorative stuff...and a blast!

Good ol' Constantine...made this second most important holiday official...and even broke the calander away from the biblical one to establish when the most important one occured...Easter...

clefty said:

was it the 25th of December?

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No one knows. There's a 1/365 chance.

Did they bring a Christmas tree?

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Of course not. Martin Luther hadn't been born yet.

Did they bring gifts?

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Sure, the wise men did. I can't speak for the shepherds. They might have simply come as they were called.

Did they celebrate a mass?

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Back on your Catholic thing again. lain: You should really find a priest to talk about that laundry list of yours. He might find it interesting.