The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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If God knows the end from the beginning, does that mean He knows what happens in between?
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Of course it does. You're really hung up on trying to limit God.
So did God know that his people would sacrifice their children on the altar to Molech?
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So your God does not know the end from the beginning?
God does not know the future, no. If He did, He would not have said that it never entered his mind that His people would murder their own children.
Can God create a new song? One that He has never thought of before?
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Please quote the scripture that you think says this.
I hope that you realize that God has to interact and communicate with humans. Sometimes, the language that scripture uses is based upon THAT limitation and NOT on a limitation of God.
Do you really think that God can be "surprised"?
Numerous prophecies in the Bible describe the future in minute detail. Do you think that they are lucky guesses?
Jeremiah 7:31
God was surprised when Adam and Eve sinned.
Does God want all prophecy to come to fruition? For example, many times, God said he would make Israel prosperous, but it's shown that time and time again, they became wicked, and other times, God said He would destroy them, saying that He was getting tired of relenting from His anger at them, but because of His love for Abraham He would not destroy them.
Do you think that God wanted the prophecy about Jesus being sold to be fulfilled?
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Jer 7:31 (AKJV/PCE)
(7:31) And they have built the high places of Tophet, which [is] in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded [them] not, neither came it into my heart.
So you think that "come in into my heart" means that He lacked foreknowledge?
I think that you need to reevaluate.
Nope.
He's NOT done yet. Apparently you've never read Jeremiah 31 or Revelation 21.
It sounds like you think that some prophecies come to pass and some do not.
I think that, when God says that something will happen and gives minute details.... and then it happens exactly as He said that it would.... that He knows all things.
Disclaimer: I prefer the NKJV, but I value all translations as long as they are correct translations.
The phrase "neither came it into My heart" is also translated as "it never entered my mind."
I think you need to reread the story of Jonah. God said in 40 days Ninevah would be destroyed, but the 40th day came and went and Ninevah was not destroyed.
I think you should take a look at this article. http://kgov.com/an-overview-of-the-bible, or just read Jeremiah 18:7-10. That verse shows at the very least that the future is not set in stone.
See above.
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I said
GODHEAD OR HEAD GOD
Rom 1:20-22
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
Col 2:8-9
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
John 10:34-38
34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are gods" '?
35 "If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36 "do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?
37 "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38 "but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him."
Acts 7:38-40
38 "This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, the one who received the living oracles to give to us,
39 "whom our fathers would not obey, but rejected. And in their hearts they turned back to Egypt,
40 "saying to Aaron, 'Make us gods to go before us; as for this Moses who brought us out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.'
Acts 17:18-25
18 Then certain Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him. And some said, "What does this babbler want to say?" Others said, "He seems to be a proclaimer of foreign gods," because he preached to them Jesus and the resurrection.
19 And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, "May we know what this new doctrine is of which you speak?
20 "For you are bringing some strange things to our ears. Therefore we want to know what these things mean."
21 For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing.
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious;
23 "for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:
24 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.
25 "Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.
1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)
XXX From the beginning the people had many gods, but for Christians there is One that is Head God. That is the Father of Jesus Christ and Creator of heaven and earth and all things. And the fullness of God the Father dwells in Jesus the Son of God. So we listen and obey all that the Son-Jesus tells us about His God and our God, His Father and our Father. To be in the Godhead is to be in total agreement with God the Father. And we only have evidence of two that are in that Godhead, that is Jesus His Son, and the Holy Spirit. Another good point that I seen was that Jesus was not in the Godhead, but that the Godhead was in Jesus.
1 Cor 11:3
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
(NKJ)
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How do you determine that? The NKJV has many problems.
So you think that this word should be translated "mind" in that context?
H3820 לֵב leb (laɓe) n-m.
1. the heart.
2. (figuratively, very widely) the feelings, the will, and even the intellect.
3. (likewise) the center of anything.
[a form of H3824]
KJV: + care for, comfortably, consent, X considered, courag(-eous), friend(-ly), ((broken-), (hard-), (merry-), (stiff-), (stout-), double) heart(-ed), X heed, X I, kindly, midst, mind(-ed), X regard(-ed), X themselves, X unawares, understanding, X well, willingly, wisdom.
Root(s): H3824
The God of the Bible is never caught not knowing.
Please show us the forty day prophecy.
I never said "that the future is set in stone". I said that God knows the end from the beginning.
And I "prefer" ice creme. And? Which bible do you believe?
Translated:You "prefer" those translation that agree/support/back your doctrine.If they don't, you find a translation that agrees with you. Thus, your doctrine determines what the bible should say, and how it "should read."
"as they are correct translations."
"correct" means, according to you, agrees with your interpretation.
You can "prove" anything.
You realize that the NKJV has "heart" instead of "mind," right? See below.
It's not that I think it should be translated mind, it's that other versions of the Bible already translate it as "never entered My mind." The NLT does, for example.
JONAH 3:4
"And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day’s walk. Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”"
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Did you happen to notice the missing "Thus saith the LORD" here?
God reserves the right to change His actions based on human response. Do you think this means that He has limited knowledge of the future? No, it does not.
That's a direct quote, I did not paraphrase or leave anything out.
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Did you happen to notice the missing "Thus saith the LORD" here?
Are you calling God a liar? That He said that he would destroy them but did not?
I'm pointing out that God can change His mind about doing something. Meaning the future is not settled, nor does God know what will happen in the future.
Let me give you the full passage from Jonah 3:
"Jonah Preaches at Nineveh
1 Now the word of the*Lord*came to Jonah the second time, saying, 2 “Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and preach to it the message that I tell you.” 3 So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the*Lord. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three-day journey in extent. 4 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day’s walk. Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”
The People of Nineveh Believe
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them. 6 Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered*himself*with sackcloth and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused*it*to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying,
Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. 9 Who can tell*if*God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?
10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it."This is not contrary to what God says in Jeremiah 18:7-8.
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And? Quite irrelevant. And "The New And Improved Sports Bible" has "guts," in it, and "The Albert Camus/Jean Paul Sarte Bible" has "inner id" in it, and ...............................................
Confirmed: Your doctrine determines what the book should say. Correcting, "choosing" any translation, presupposes an authority over it.
Quite irrelevant, as "consensus" does not determine veracity.
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- I have never said that the future is "settled" (in the sense that you try force upon the idea).
- God DOES know exactly what will happen
- The Bible says that God knows the END from the BEGINNING.
- That is a statement of COMPLETE knowledge of everything.
I understand what you are trying to make the scripture say. That God is limited in His knowledge of the future. That is not the case.
Isa 46:9-11 (AKJV/PCE)
(46:9) Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me, (46:10) Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: (46:11) Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken [it], I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed [it], I will also do it.
Do you believe that when God gives prophecies about the future that He's just guessing?
That is not the God of the Bible.