Creation vs. Evolution II

patrick jane · Jan 6, 2017

MichaelCadry said:
Hey All,

I'm going to give this thread to patrick jane, if he wants it. This is the last time. I have too much going on in each day, and this takes hours of time. I have to read every thread, as possible, to see what you've all had to say. I then answer usually a post to cover all of the posts I've read. I would find it too hard to respond to each post. It's been awesome here! I will still, most likely, post here sometimes. Will chat with you then. I will also check out some of the other threads, but probably not too often. Like I said, my schedule is swamped. I have to make things right.

May God Watch Over Each Of You Closely,

Michael

This will always be Michael's thread because he started it, we will keep it going together. Take some much needed time off Michael and check on the thread periodically. Everyone knows Michael and we will all remember that this was his thread. I haven't been getting on TOL nearly as much since a bogus ban, but this thread runs on it's own volition. Personally, I would like to see Hedshaker and Silent Hunter allowed back in the thread.

redfern · Jan 6, 2017

patrick jane said:
… Personally, I would like to see Hedshaker and Silent Hunter allowed back in the thread.

I concur.

MichaelCadry · Jan 7, 2017

Dear patrickj,

Yippee!! patrick jane! This IS your Thread now!! You might now notice that I have turned this Creation Thread over to you. Even your name is on it, with tons of thanks and love from our moderator, Sherman!! See the Forum Home, and notice that your name as owner of the thread is for good! You'll figure it out, I'm sure.

May God Still Be A Part Of This Thread,

Michael

As far as Silent Hunter and Hedshaker: If you want to cancel the ban on them, go for it. You own the thread now. You should really talk with 6days about their 'ban' because he is the one who's going to have to deal with them constantly. He is already swamped by all of the atheists.

6days · Jan 7, 2017

redfern said:
I concur.

Me 2

MichaelCadry · Jan 8, 2017

6days said:
Me 2

Dear 6days,

If you don't mind if they return, it's up to you and Patrick. Don't play games though. Sherman is not going to rescind their banning for you, unless you're going to let them remain for a while. I'll be here, but if it is just a bunch of bull trying to deal with their posts to me or about me, I will just quit checking in here, and that's that. I am not going to get in a posting war here. I am trying to get a break from it all, and I don't want to answer umpteen posts back and forth with them.

It's Always Something!!

Michael

patrick jane · Jan 8, 2017

MichaelCadry said:
Dear 6days,

If you don't mind if they return, it's up to you and Patrick. Don't play games though. Sherman is not going to rescind their banning for you, unless you're going to let them remain for a while. I'll be here, but if it is just a bunch of bull trying to deal with their posts to me or about me, I will just quit checking in here, and that's that. I am not going to get in a posting war here. I am trying to get a break from it all, and I don't want to answer umpteen posts back and forth with them.

It's Always Something!!

Michael

If it's any comfort Michael, they both probably don't visit TOL anymore because this was the only thread they posted in. How would you feel if you were banned from a thread?

MichaelCadry · Jan 9, 2017

patrick jane said:
If it's any comfort Michael, they both probably don't visit TOL anymore because this was the only thread they posted in. How would you feel if you were banned from a thread?

Dear patrickj,

They still watch this thread. Otherwise, Silent Hunter could not give a "Thanks" for a post, as he did right here, to your post above this one. Hey, if it's what you want, you got it. I will talk with Sherman and I will hope that she will bless us again by reversing her ban on them. Just let me know patrick. If I were banned from a thread, I could care less. Saves me a lot of work.

Just Let Me Know,

Michael

Caino · Jan 9, 2017

redfern said:
When you speak of the "beliefs" that scientists have, it carries the impression that by "beliefs" you mean ideas with little evidence to back them. It sounds like you think paleontologists find a couple of fossils that are similar, differing in maybe just a few bones, and then declare that they must therefore have a close ancestral relationship.

Besides "this one looks like a slight modification of that one", what other information about the fossils would be important? In other words, what other observable or measurable data might a paleontologist want to consider that would lend credence to (or conflict with) the possibility that two fossils are closely related?

So? Some mathematicians have made errors in theorems they propose, and so we can conclude that mathematics is nonsense? Newton was wrong about some of his ideas about physics, so physics in bunk? Is that kinda what you are saying – that mistakes made in a field of study falsify the field?

Which is exactly what I would expect to happen when working with incomplete and sparse data. Instead of an unrealistic expectation that no errors be permitted, how about looking to see what rationale the minor adjustments were predicated on, and seeing if the resulting pattern is a better fit for the data?

They can't be honest or concede facts, the doctrine of the inspiration of scripture is constructed to make such admissions a lack of faith. Science debunked young earth creationism long ago, but religious leaders have convinced the flock that scientist are evil when in fact it's the religious leaders who are evil. It's similar to the religious people who rejected Jesus.

MichaelCadry · Jan 10, 2017

patrick jane said:
This will always be Michael's thread because he started it, we will keep it going together. Take some much needed time off Michael and check on the thread periodically. Everyone knows Michael and we will all remember that this was his thread. I haven't been getting on TOL nearly as much since a bogus ban, but this thread runs on it's own volition. Personally, I would like to see Hedshaker and Silent Hunter allowed back in the thread.

Dear patrickj,

If you'd like them back, personally, then go for it. Maybe they have changed some from being gone. Also, I check in here every night to see what is happening here, for the most part. I want to make sure that you have all of the help in the world from God and myself to have a smooth time of it all.

Much Love, Going Once... Sold!!

Michael

MichaelCadry · Jan 10, 2017

Caino said:
They can't be honest or concede facts, the doctrine of the inspiration of scripture is constructed to make such admissions a lack of faith. Science debunked young earth creationism long ago, but religious leaders have convinced the flock that scientist are evil when in fact it's the religious leaders who are evil. It's similar to the religious people who rejected Jesus.

Dear Caino,

I guess you don't know the same God that I know. Do you actually think that He couldn't make a completely sustainable Earth in 6 days, with dinosaurs and fossils, and Adam, who were created on the 6th day?? What happened to the years before Adam and Eve were set in the Garden of Eden?? Was it years, or six DAYS! What happened to the years of growth for each creature that God created? No, they didn't start from scratch, and neither did the Earth or Heaven.

What can I ever say to reach you?? You see the simple science instead of believing in miracles, which is how God created things. Hey, whatever could I tell you that would change your mind? Nothing! So I'll discontinue that bag of goodies. When we face God, some of us will find out the answers. But, God created everything and everyone as an aged person or animal, and even flora in one day. If God created everything and everyone in 6 days, then how in the world is this word 'evolution' a fact?? What came first, the chicken or the egg? Well, the chicken of course, for it was created as aged by God.

Godspeed!! Science has some true answers, but also some falsehoods. Let's all see what happens!

Warmest Regards and Care, Caino,

Michael

Caino · Jan 10, 2017

MichaelCadry said:
Dear Caino,

I guess you don't know the same God that I know. Do you actually think that He couldn't make a completely sustainable Earth in 6 days, with dinosaurs and fossils, and Adam, who were created on the 6th day?? What happened to the years before Adam and Eve were set in the Garden of Eden?? Was it years, or six DAYS! What happened to the years of growth for each creature that God created? No, they didn't start from scratch, and neither did the Earth or Heaven.

What can I ever say to reach you?? You see the simple science instead of believing in miracles, which is how God created things. Hey, whatever could I tell you that would change your mind? Nothing! So I'll discontinue that bag of goodies. When we face God, some of us will find out the answers. But, God created everything and everyone as an aged person or animal, and even flora in one day. If God created everything and everyone in 6 days, then how in the world is this word 'evolution' a fact?? What came first, the chicken or the egg? Well, the chicken of course, for it was created as aged by God.

Godspeed!! Science has some true answers, but also some falsehoods. Let's all see what happens!

Warmest Regards and Care, Caino,

Michael

Hi Michael, my belief is very simple, it's consistent with the facts revealed in the archeological record rather than faith in one of the creation narratives. The evolution of the material universe, of our galaxy, of our solar system, of our planet and the life that was created on it, is the way of Gods creation. The remains of previous forms of life reveal simple life forms (containing a purposive potential), evolving over long periods of time, characterized by "sudden mutations". Many previous forms of life do not exist anymore, only the ancestors of those distant epochs of history remain. Some lines terminated completely and are extinct.

I've never believed that God created the world to look old and fool people. Rather I believe the creation story was written in an enchanting age when they didn't know any better and needed a tradition for the Israelite believers. I believe the church is stubborn and has it's own pride, it's generally afraid to admit errors in it's own writings. The church conveniently manipulates peoples fear by claiming Satan is running everything that disagrees with the church or challenges it's authority.

6days · Jan 10, 2017

Caino said:
my belief is very simple

Simple and false.

Caino said:
*it's consistent with the facts revealed in the archeological record

Archaeology has repeatedly revealed the truth of God's Word.

Caino said:
The evolution of the material universe, of our galaxy, of our solar system, of our planet and the life that was created on it, is the way of Gods creation.

As you said... thats your belief.

Caino said:
*The remains of previous forms of life reveal simple life forms (containing a purposive potential), evolving over long periods of time, characterized by*"sudden mutations".

The fossil record provides great evidence for the truth of God's Word. We see sudden appearance of the created kinds. We also see billions of organisms rapidly buried in sediment from the global flood.*

Caino said:
Many previous forms of life do not exist anymore, only the ancestors of those distant epochs of history remain. Some lines terminated completely and are extinct.

Yes...consistent with God's Word.*

Caino said:
I've never believed that God created the world to*look old and fool people.

That is one belief you have correct. Our world does not look old...don't be fooled.

Caino said:
*Rather I believe the creation story was written in an enchanting agewhen they didn't know any better...

Hmmm...That is another of your false beliefs. God created humans as very intelligent beings. Evolutionists like to imagine they have greater intelligence than their ancestors.*

Caino said:
I believe the church is stubborn and has it's own pride, it's generally afraid to admit errors in it's own writings.

If you mean people are stubborn...I agree. Atheists, vegans, Baptists, professors, and newspaper editors are often stubborn and reluctant to admit their error.

Caino said:
*The church conveniently manipulates peoples fear by claiming Satan is running everything that disagrees with the church or challenges it's authority.

You seem to believe many things not based in reality. God's Word...along with the many churches I am familiar with teach that we are to always test what is true.*

Caino · Jan 10, 2017

6days said:
Simple and false.

Archaeology has repeatedly revealed the truth of God's Word.

As you said... thats your belief.

The fossil record provides great evidence for the truth of God's Word. We see sudden appearance of the created kinds. We also see billions of organisms rapidly buried in sediment from the global flood.*

Yes...consistent with God's Word.*

That is one belief you have correct. Our world does not look old...don't be fooled.

Hmmm...That is another of your false beliefs. God created humans as very intelligent beings. Evolutionists like to imagine they have greater intelligence than their ancestors.*

If you mean people are stubborn...I agree. Atheists, vegans, Baptists, professors, and newspaper editors are often stubborn and reluctant to admit their error.

You seem to believe many things not based in reality. God's Word...along with the many churches I am familiar with teach that we are to always test what is true.*

You are only hypnotizing yourself. The many layers of stratified rock formations that were laid down over millions of years contain fossils of different life forms that lived at different times. There have been many floods over many ages, your claim of one world wide flood is quack science. The earth doesn't look anything like the Genesis account to honest people.

You may believe that God wrote the Bible but that doesn't make it true, it just means you believe something. Many religious people inside of many religions believe things that are not true.

6days · Jan 10, 2017

Caino said:
.The many layers of stratified rock formations that were laid down over millions of years contain fossils of different life forms that lived at different times.

The layers would most likely have been formed in the first year of the flood. The geolocical record is consistent with the flood model... rapid burial in waterborne sefiment with marine organisms concentrated in the lower levels.*

Caino said:
.

There have been many floods over many ages...

True. However floods don't fossilize anything. You need huge amounts of waterborne sediment as in the global flood model.

Caino said:
.
You may believe that God wrote the Bible but that doesn't make it true

No, I believe ordinary people wrote the Bible being inspired by God.*

Caino said:
Many religious people inside of many religions believe things that are not true.

That is true. But it doesn't apply just to religion. Some carnival workers believe their ride is safe when it isn't. Some biologists believe they evolved from bacteria.*Some atheists believe that nothing created everything.*

God's Word however encourages us to believe based on logic and evidence.*

Caino · Jan 10, 2017

6days said:
The layers would most likely have been formed in the first year of the flood. The geolocical record is consistent with the flood model... rapid burial in waterborne sefiment with marine organisms concentrated in the lower levels.*

True. However floods don't fossilize anything. You need huge amounts of waterborne sediment as in the global flood model.
No, I believe ordinary people wrote the Bible being inspired by God.*

That is true. But it doesn't apply just to religion. Some carnival workers believe their ride is safe when it isn't. Some biologists believe they evolved from bacteria.*Some atheists believe that nothing created everything.*

God's Word however encourages us to believe based on logic and evidence.*

Noah's flood formed in the minds of it's Hebrew creators, its an obvious myth outside of religious faith. Even if a world wide flood occurred, that doesn't account for the many layers of the archeological record.

There are thousands upon thousands of layers in the earth's crust. Scientists have grouped the layers into major groups. The most recent three layers are the Paleozoic, Mesozoic, and Cenozoic. These layers represent the last 500 million years of life on earth.

Over the millions of years there were millions of floods that trapped the various fossils. In the Paleozoic, you find fish, amphibian, and reptile fossils (in that order), but never dinosaurs, birds, modern mammals, or even flowering plants. despite the billions of plant fossils in the Paleozoic layer, nobody has ever found one fossil of a flower, including any kind of deciduous tree or even a single blade of grass. The Mesozoic has dinosaurs which are reptiles and that's why you won't find any until after the Paleozoic which contains the first reptiles. The Mesozoic also has the first flowering plants, birds, and mammals, though few if any birds or mammals that we know of today. The Cenozoic is the current layer that is still being deposited in oceans, deserts and swamps all around the earth. The Cenozoic is the first major layer where we find modern mammal fossils such as cats, dogs, monkeys and humans. This layer, or "era" is often referred to as the age of mammals.

The YEC story of Genesis as will as the 1 year flood explanation for the fossil layers is child like and completely repudiated by reality.

God is the Living Word, the Bible is the written word of man containing speculation, conjecture, political and racial bias.

6days · Jan 10, 2017

Caino said:
Noah's flood formed in the minds of it's Hebrew creators, its an obvious myth outside of religious faith.

That's your belief, but evidence says otherwise.

Caino said:
Even if a world wide flood occurred, that doesn't account for the many layers of the archeological record.You wouldn't know since you don't understand the evidence within the flood model.*

Caino said:

There are thousands upon thousands of layers in the earth's crust. Scientists have grouped the layers into major groups. The most recent three layers are the Paleozoic, Mesozoic, and Cenozoic. These layers represent the last 500 million years of life on earth.

Click to expand...

A flood can and has caused multiple fine layers in a single day. *You don't need millions of years - you need water and sediment. The geological layers are consistent with the Biblical flood.*

Caino said:

Over the millions of years there were millions of floods that trapped the various fossils.

Click to expand...

Thats your belief but not consistent with the evidence. Floods cause organisms to drown...not to turn plants and animals into rocks. .*

Caino said:

In the Paleozoic, you find fish, amphibian, and reptile fossils (in that order), but never dinosaurs, birds, modern mammals, or even flowering plants.

Click to expand...

We might disagree with your generalization.....But, why would you think that birds etc would be buried with fish? *

Caino said:

despite the billions of plant fossils in the Paleozoic layer, nobody has ever found...

Click to expand...

The fossil record of plants provide great evidence for the truth of God's Word. We see sudden appearance... and grear diversity (no transitionals) of various created kinds. *Today we see many of the same plants but often with decline...or extinctions. There is much greater diversity of ferns in Silurian and Devonian rock, than exists today. Some of the same ferns still exist today but very diminished from the ancestral population.

We could also look at what evolutionists think are some of the earliest 'plants' and see incredible complexity and sophistication. For example blue green algae formed stromatolites. They had some biochemistry systems rivalling or perhaps better than humans have. (Science so often surprises evolutionists).

I like what *Cambridge prof of Botany once said..."...to the unprejudiced, the fossil eecord of plants is in favor of special creation."

Caino said:

The Mesozoic ...

Click to expand...

Doesn't matter which layer we discuss.... the fossil record is consistent with God's Word. We see sudden appearance ...great diversity...and evidence of intelligently designed creature....and lack of transitionals.*

*

Caino said:

God is the*Living Word, the Bible is the written word of man containing speculation, conjecture, political and racial bias.

Click to expand...

That is what you believe but evidence shows us His Word is inerrant truth and is as relevant today as it was 2000 years ago.*

Sherman · Jan 10, 2017

patrick jane said:
If it's any comfort Michael, they both probably don't visit TOL anymore because this was the only thread they posted in. How would you feel if you were banned from a thread?

I am allowing them to return on the condition they behave themselves.

@MichaelCadry Please report any personal attacks they do. If they make any personal attacks, they will be banned from the thread and receive infractions. They are allowed back in on the condition they behave themselves and stick to the debate. No personal attacks.

MichaelCadry · Jan 11, 2017

Sherman said:
I am allowing them to return on the condition they behave themselves.

@MichaelCadry Please report any personal attacks they do. If they make any personal attacks, they will be banned from the thread and receive infractions. They are allowed back in on the condition they behave themselves and stick to the debate. No personal attacks.

Well, thank you Sherman!! You are the BEST Moderator that I've ever received help from!!! I'm so thankful for you indeed!!! If things do go rough, I'll definitely get in touch with you. I will write your Post No. down so that I can tell them to read it again, if they get too awful.

God Bless Your Heart And Your Soul, And Your Mind, A Thousandfold!!

Michael

:cloud9: :angel: :cloud9: :angel: :cloud9: :angel: :guitar: :guitar: :singer:

MichaelCadry · Jan 11, 2017

Caino said:
Hi Michael, my belief is very simple, it's consistent with the facts revealed in the archeological record rather than faith in one of the creation narratives. The evolution of the material universe, of our galaxy, of our solar system, of our planet and the life that was created on it, is the way of Gods creation. The remains of previous forms of life reveal simple life forms (containing a purposive potential), evolving over long periods of time, characterized by "sudden mutations". Many previous forms of life do not exist anymore, only the ancestors of those distant epochs of history remain. Some lines terminated completely and are extinct.

I've never believed that God created the world to look old and fool people. Rather I believe the creation story was written in an enchanting age when they didn't know any better and needed a tradition for the Israelite believers. I believe the church is stubborn and has it's own pride, it's generally afraid to admit errors in it's own writings. The church conveniently manipulates peoples fear by claiming Satan is running everything that disagrees with the church or challenges it's authority.

Dear Caino,

Now, do you see, why you are most likely not going to get it right in this lifetime. You are SO WRONG about things. Your thinking is ridiculous and is confusion against God and what HE SAID. Sure there were giant men and women in the olden days, and also giant animals and dinosaurs, which went extinct after the Flood. There was not enough room on the Ark for them. Some dinosaurs did make it, like the Turtle, Tortoises, Alligators and Crocodiles, etc. Animals that can survive in the water. "There were giants in the Earth in those days; and also after that,..." {See Gen. 6:4KJV}. It might be quite an experience if Adam and Eve were giant people, too. It all has to do with the pituitary gland, to be honest. It's up to God how big the animals are and also Adam and Eve. It's highly improbable, but who knows? I do believe that if they were giants, the Lord would have made that clear in the Bible. Just something to think about, considering you weren't there and don't know what was going on. We'll find out more when Jesus Returns. I don't believe the Church is stubborn as much as Caino is stubborn.

Now, what do you think of God separating the land and waters, and creating the Earth in a couple days? On the 4th Day, God created the planets and the stars also, including the Sun and the Moon. AFTER the Earth. You don't know anything and it is quite futile to engage with you about it. You are Urantia Book material. Lost forever in your strange beliefs. Caino, you are very likable and quite a good person, but you lose out on a lot of important information. If you don't have Jesus in your heart, well, I won't even bring it up because it upsets you so. You don't have all of the puzzle pieces, it seems.

Please Reconsider Jesus, And God, And The Holy Ghost!!

Michael

Caino · Jan 11, 2017

6days said:
That's your belief, but evidence says otherwise.

Caino said:

Even if a world wide flood occurred, that doesn't account for the many layers of the archeological record.You wouldn't know since you don't understand the evidence within the flood model.*

A flood can and has caused multiple fine layers in a single day. *You don't need millions of years - you need water and sediment. The geological layers are consistent with the Biblical flood.*

Thats your belief but not consistent with the evidence. Floods cause organisms to drown...not to turn plants and animals into rocks. .*

We might disagree with your generalization.....But, why would you think that birds etc would be buried with fish? *

The fossil record of plants provide great evidence for the truth of God's Word. We see sudden appearance... and grear diversity (no transitionals) of various created kinds. *Today we see many of the same plants but often with decline...or extinctions. There is much greater diversity of ferns in Silurian and Devonian rock, than exists today. Some of the same ferns still exist today but very diminished from the ancestral population.

We could also look at what evolutionists think are some of the earliest 'plants' and see incredible complexity and sophistication. For example blue green algae formed stromatolites. They had some biochemistry systems rivalling or perhaps better than humans have. (Science so often surprises evolutionists).

I like what *Cambridge prof of Botany once said..."...to the unprejudiced, the fossil eecord of plants is in favor of special creation."

Doesn't matter which layer we discuss.... the fossil record is consistent with God's Word. We see sudden appearance ...great diversity...and evidence of intelligently designed creature....and lack of transitionals.*

* That is what you believe but evidence shows us His Word is inerrant truth and is as relevant today as it was 2000 years ago.*

Click to expand...

The facts of real science are at odds with you denials. Besides, God is the Living word of Truth, the scriptures are mans written word about the doings of God combined with pseudo biographical stories.

We might disagree with your generalization.....But, why would you think that birds etc would be buried with fish?

Click to expand...

Because they were:

Nowhere are there humans buried with dinosaurs because God didn't create man and dinosaurs at the same time. The Hebrews creation story was just conjecture which has been disproven.

Creation vs. Evolution II

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