The Late Great Urantia Revelation

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freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Hi Caino, I managed to arrive 13 years before you! I'm a UB reader, as you know, but your comment has been making me itch since I first read it. I don't know the thread history between you guys but it's fairly clear that animosity is the keynote. Perhaps I'm repeating myself but as I read this chap's texts I see several other possibilities driving his responses. Biblical hardliners are very tightly boxed in their respective traditions. Very often LOYALTY to the faith is prized higher than insight as few ever rise to the rank of biblical scholar. Hence the actions of many of the humble faithful is born of loyalty to the one's that first brought them to saving faith. This guy could be a hypocritic, or just trolling, but I have my doubts - his comments (insofar as I have read them) do not indicate hypocrisy. He may well resent your attitude, your proclivity to patronise him and his beliefs, and his comments could be born of that sense of defensive resentment and loyalty more than to cowardly evasion, hypocrisy, or trolling. Errors, for hardliners, usually come with the consequence of damnation. Even entertaining the idea carries with it the consequence of damnation. This, more than anything, usually drives resistance. Does not the UB teach that we can all profit from the religious teachings of other traditions? That we would be better served looking for the best in a tradition than focusing on the worst? Focusing on what we share more than what divides us? To focus on embellishing the truths they contain the condemning the error? Are we not asked to love each other as Jesus loves us - regardless of our differences in beliefs, our levels of insight, or level of spiritual attainment? Is not our love for our fellows the true measure of our grasp of the essence of the truth of the Kin-dom? Are we not specifically asked to "strive not" with men? That we should not succumb to the delusion that we can BEAT our fellows in to the Kin-dom by eloquence or clever argument? I know we are asked to stand in vigorous defense of truth but we are also admonished to "wipe the dust from our feet" should it become apparent that our gospel will not be received by people. One thing is certain, you won't win this man through point scoring and quibbling. If he has found salvation in his tradition you will not prise him from it by intellectual force. Apologies if I'm WAY off base here.


Hi SP,

Good points,....I've tried to steer the discussions into positive lanes, ever going for 'creative dialogue' in the interest of 'expanding consciousness' :) - In that vein we shall continue :thumb: - it just so happens that the usual responses and claims about the UB, and the typical polemics against it, from a fundamentalist bible-only view, can become a bit tedious as to garnish the same responses back in kind, so we all have to be more careful at how we engage the art of dialogue here, and make the most of its opportunities. It can be challenging however which forces us towards greater sensitivity and creativity, if we would engage that, in moving discussions towards constructive ends. I'll be commenting on the last video shared soon.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Dumping the UB, for the Bible only.......just one option among many.....

Dumping the UB, for the Bible only.......just one option among many.....

Former UB reader testifies to his new Christian community about the Urantia cult and why he left.


Hi all,

I did listen to the this whole talk a few days ago, and will share some of my thoughts on it. A lot of the points Adre Traversa makes are found also on this Part 2 testimony posted on Facebook here. I did respond at the bottom here, and addressed a bible verse that he found problematic, being 1 kings 16:34. He has issues of the UB's comment about the passage. This however is a matter of one's interpretation, and I address it on another discussion forum, the link at bottom of FB page within my response. I did find it interesting, but there is support that the UB's claim concerning this passage regarding child sacrifice within building foundations is tenable. So in this instance, I didn't find really much 'weight' to abandon one's faith in the UB over this particular, as it appears a number of factors worked in concert to make him finally abandon the UB. Here is the bible verse -

34 In his days Hiel the Bethelite built Jericho; he laid its foundations with the loss of Abiram his firstborn, and set up its gates with the loss of his youngest son Segub, according to the word of the Lord, which He spoke by Joshua the son of Nun.

- 1 Kings 16:34, NASB

Other translations -

In his days Hiel the Bethelite built Jericho; he laid its foundation in Abiram his firstborn, and set up its gates in Segub his youngest, according to the word of Jehovah which he spoke through Joshua the son of Nun. -DARBY

In Ahab’s time, Hiel of Bethel rebuilt Jericho. He laid its foundations at the cost of his firstborn son Abiram, and he set up its gates at the cost of his youngest son Segub, in accordance with the word of the Lord spoken by Joshua son of Nun. -NIV


Here is the UB passage about this verse, in a chapter about 'Evolution of human sacrifie' -

89:6.6 A petty king in Palestine. in building the walls of Jericho," laid the foundation thereof in Abiram, his first-born, and set up the gates thereof in his youngest son, Segub." At that late date, not only did this father put two of his sons alive in the foundation holes of the city's gates, but his action is also recorded as being "according to the word of the Lord." Moses had forbidden these foundation sacrifices, but the Israelites reverted to them soon after his death. The twentieth-century ceremony of depositing trinkets and keepsakes in the cornerstone of a new building is reminiscent of the primitive foundation sacrifices.


-Paper 89, 6.6

Here we see the UB claims the 2 sons of Heil were 'sacrificed into the building structures of Jericho', providing more info. about the nature of their deaths, and merely mentions that the biblical text(record) claims that is was "according to the word of the Lord' given thru Joshua, since Joshua pronounced a curse to anyone who would rebuild Jericho. Note this is the claim of the passage itself. Andre's contention is that there is no 'proof' that the 2 sons were 'sacrificed alive' into any of the building structures (the grammar used here is peculiar and may grant various allowances if you look up different translations), and that just because the UB mentions that his action is 'recorded as being "according to the word of the Lord"' that this means God is endorsing such sacrifices, but this latter conjecture is absurd. First of all, child sacrifices were common in those days and ancient times (see Paper 89.6 on this), as some were put into walls or various building structures as a 'sacrifice' for whatever reason. Also the UB does NOT claim that 'God' (in actuality) spoke thru Joshua or anyone for that matter to deliver a CURSE on anyone, as the UB is adamant on revealing a God who does not curse or demand human sacrifice at any time! Furthermore, the UB states that Moses forbid such things. So one this score, Andre has misconstrued a lot.

For years he teetered back and forth between a more bible based faith, and a community of UB-readers and enthusiasts,...falling back to one or another depending on whatever conditions or feelings were guiding his way, until he currently is a bible-only believing 'Christian', at least that's the 'status' at the moment. It seems the easier route of just believing Jesus paid it all (did it all for you), died for your sins enacting a 'blood atonement', and gives you a free pass into heaven (more or less), plus the cordial heart felt emotional bonds of his present church family, is satisfying all his needs for the time being. As far as refuting the UB as a whole, no evidence was provided beyond it providing extra-biblical knowledge or concepts, yet he admits there is some truth in it of course. On that note, everyone must search out and study for themselves, think for themselves. Whatever is subject to change, can change at any moment or provide the right conditions for a different course or conclusion,...yet even that is more or less transitory, since life/consciousness is evolving, unfolding, ever-changing, transforming. Such is life :surf:
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Omnipresent Reality................

Omnipresent Reality................

You never recieved faith, yet.

Sorry, TB,...but you cant honestly claim that, since you don't know Caino or his relationship with 'God'. One would think one's stalwart faith in an Infinite God, much less a gracious God would include and accommodate all souls. There is not one soul that lives, moves and has his being outside of God. There is no outside of 'God'. We are all His offspring :)

Consider His Omnipresence.....

3:1.1 The ability of the Universal Father to be everywhere present, and at the same time, constitutes his omnipresence. God alone can be in two places, in numberless places, at the same time. God is simultaneously present " in heaven above and on the earth beneath "; as the Psalmist exclaimed: " Whither shall I go from your spirit? or whither shall I flee from your presence? "

3:1.2 " `I am a God at hand as well as afar off,' says the Lord. `Do not I fill heaven and earth?' " The Universal Father is all the time present in all parts and in all hearts of his far-flung creation. He is " the fullness of him who fills all and in all, " and " who works all in all, " and further, the concept of his personality is such that " the heaven (universe) and heaven of heavens (universe of universes) cannot contain him. " It is literally true that God is all and in all. But even that is not all of God. The Infinite can be finally revealed only in infinity; the cause can never be fully comprehended by an analysis of effects; the living God is immeasurably greater than the sum total of creation that has come into being as a result of the creative acts of his unfettered free will. God is revealed throughout the cosmos, but the cosmos can never contain or encompass the entirety of the infinity of God.

As far as 'faith' goes -

150:5.2 “When men and women ask what shall we do to be saved, you shall answer, Believe this gospel of the kingdom; accept divine forgiveness. By faith recognize the indwelling spirit of God, whose acceptance makes you a son of God. Have you not read in the Scriptures where it says, `In the Lord have I righteousness and strength.' Also where the Father says, `My righteousness is near; my salvation has gone forth, and my arms shall enfold my people.' `My soul shall be joyful in the love of my God, for he has clothed me with the garments of salvation and has covered me with the robe of his righteousness.' Have you not also read of the Father that his name `shall be called the Lord our righteousness.' `Take away the filthy rags of self-righteousness and clothe my son with the robe of divine righteousness and eternal salvation.' It is forever true, `the just shall live by faith.' Entrance into the Father's kingdom is wholly free, but progress—growth in grace—is essential to continuance therein.
 

TulipBee

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Banned
Sorry, TB,...but you cant honestly claim that, since you don't know Caino or his relationship with 'God'. One would think one's stalwart faith in an Infinite God, much less a gracious God would include and accommodate all souls. There is not one soul that lives, moves and has his being outside of God. There is no outside of 'God'. We are all His offspring :)

Consider His Omnipresence.....



As far as 'faith' goes -

150:5.2 “When men and women ask what shall we do to be saved, you shall answer, Believe this gospel of the kingdom; accept divine forgiveness. By faith recognize the indwelling spirit of God, whose acceptance makes you a son of God. Have you not read in the Scriptures where it says, `In the Lord have I righteousness and strength.' Also where the Father says, `My righteousness is near; my salvation has gone forth, and my arms shall enfold my people.' `My soul shall be joyful in the love of my God, for he has clothed me with the garments of salvation and has covered me with the robe of his righteousness.' Have you not also read of the Father that his name `shall be called the Lord our righteousness.' `Take away the filthy rags of self-righteousness and clothe my son with the robe of divine righteousness and eternal salvation.' It is forever true, `the just shall live by faith.' Entrance into the Father's kingdom is wholly free, but progress—growth in grace—is essential to continuance therein.
Keep seeking
 
Keep seeking
They have already found TulipBee. The fact that you can't, won't or perhaps are unable to, recognize this would indicate that you don't know what salvation is. Arguing with you is a waste of time.
If you don't see that these are men of faith then I question whether or not you genuinely possess faith. If you do recognize that they have genuine faith but are refusing to admit this then you are a hypocrit. If you are simply unable then submit to the mystery of God and recognize that with Him all things are possible.
 

TulipBee

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Banned
They have already found TulipBee. The fact that you can't, won't or perhaps are unable to, recognize this would indicate that you don't know what salvation is. Arguing with you is a waste of time.
If you don't see that these are men of faith then I question whether or not you genuinely possess faith. If you do recognize that they have genuine faith but are refusing to admit this then you are a hypocrit. If you are simply unable then submit to the mystery of God and recognize that with Him all things are possible.
Keep searching
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
A spiritual student is ever aspiring to learn.......

A spiritual student is ever aspiring to learn.......

Keep seeking

Indeed, this is what Jesus teaches -


"Keep asking, and it will be given to you. Keep searching, and you will find. Keep knocking, and the door will be opened to you.

- Matt. 7:7, Holman Christian Standard Bible


140:1.5 "Your message to the world shall be: Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and in finding these, all other things essential to eternal survival shall be secured therewith. And now would I make it plain to you that this kingdom of my Father will not come with an outward show of power or with unseemly demonstration. You are not to go hence in the proclamation of the kingdom, saying, `it is here' or `it is there,' for this kingdom of which you preach is God within you.

167:5.2 The law of the universe is: Ask and you shall receive; seek and you shall find.

192:2.1 When they had finished breakfast, and while the others sat by the fire, Jesus beckoned to Peter and to John that they should come with him for a stroll on the beach. As they walked along, Jesus said to John,“John, do you love me?” And when John answered, “Yes, Master, with all my heart,” the Master said: “Then, John, give up your intolerance and learn to love men as I have loved you. Devote your life to proving that love is the greatest thing in the world. It is the love of God that impels men to seek salvation. Love is the ancestor of all spiritual goodness, the essence of the true and the beautiful.”

The religious life and journey of spiritual progress, evolution and ascension, is an adventure of never-ending discovery. One who has found 'God' is still ever asking, seeking and knocking, appealing to know more of his nature, power, glory, excellence, love, wisdom, unto infinity. To assume one has 'all of God' already, in his totality, is presumptuous if not erroneous, since 'God' is INFINITE. Even truth, while dynamic and living, is relative, conditional to one's own perception modified by space and time. Our worship, progress and ascension Godward....can never end, or have an ultimate finality, unless we can attain a quality of existence that has exhausted all potentials and possibilities.

Even so, the Master Jesus beckons us to strive towards 'perfection', even the perfection of divine love, to be like Our Father in the heavens.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Free Will.........................

Free Will.........................

~*~*~

Hi all,

Just cross-referencing some of my former posts on 'free will' in another thread, .....see here & here :)

The UB has much to say on 'free will' and in fact is a champion in expounding on the provision of free will, both God's and Man's.

See: Free will in the UB :thumb:


This is always an awesome subject,.....stay tuned.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Paper 118...............

Paper 118...............

~*~*~

Hi all,

Just cross-referencing some of my former posts on 'free will' in another thread, .....see here & here :)

The UB has much to say on 'free will' and in fact is a champion in expounding on the provision of free will, both God's and Man's.

See: Free will in the UB :thumb:


This is always an awesome subject,.....stay tuned.

Continuing our meditations on 'free will',.... Paper 118 (Supreme and Ultimate - Time and Space) shares wonderful insights into free agency and the divine providence on individual and cosmic levels.


Mortal man is endowed with freewill, the power of choice, and though such choosing is not absolute, nevertheless, it is relatively final on the finite level and concerning the destiny of the choosing personality. (118:6.4)
Providence does not mean that God has decided all things for us and in advance. God loves us too much to do that, for that would be nothing short of cosmic tyranny. Man does have relative powers of choice. (118:10.1)


Text and other audio here.
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
THE EVOLUTION OF REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT



71:2.1 Democracy, while an ideal, is a product of civilization, not of evolution. Go slowly! select carefully! for the dangers of democracy are:


1. Glorification of mediocrity.
2. Choice of base and ignorant rulers.
3. Failure to recognize the basic facts of social evolution.
4. Danger of universal suffrage in the hands of uneducated and indolent majorities.
5. Slavery to public opinion; the majority is not always right.

71:2.7 Public opinion, common opinion, has always delayed society; nevertheless, it is valuable, for, while retarding social evolution, it does preserve civilization. Education of public opinion is the only safe and true method of accelerating civilization; force is only a temporary expedient, and cultural growth will increasingly accelerate as bullets give way to ballots. Public opinion, the mores, is the basic and elemental energy in social evolution and state development, but to be of state value it must be nonviolent in expression.

71:2.8 The measure of the advance of society is directly determined by the degree to which public opinion can control personal behavior and state regulation through nonviolent expression. The really civilized government had arrived when public opinion was clothed with the powers of personal franchise. Popular elections may not always decide things rightly, but they represent the right way even to do a wrong thing. Evolution does not at once produce superlative perfection but rather comparative and advancing practical adjustment.

71:2.9 There are ten steps, or stages, to the evolution of a practical and efficient form of representative government, and these are:


1. Freedom of the person. Slavery, serfdom, and all forms of human bondage must disappear.

2. Freedom of the mind. Unless a free people are educated—taught to think intelligently and plan wisely—freedom usually does more harm than good.

3. The reign of law. Liberty can be enjoyed only when the will and whims of human rulers are replaced by legislative enactments in accordance with accepted fundamental law.

4. Freedom of speech. Representative government is unthinkable without freedom of all forms of expression for human aspirations and opinions.

5. Security of property. No government can long endure if it fails to provide for the right to enjoy personal property in some form. Man craves the right to use, control, bestow, sell, lease, and bequeath his personal property.

6. The right of petition. Representative government assumes the right of citizens to be heard. The privilege of petition is inherent in free citizenship.

7. The right to rule. It is not enough to be heard; the power of petition must progress to the actual management of the government.

8. Universal suffrage. Representative government presupposes an intelligent, efficient, and universal electorate. The character of such a government will ever be determined by the character and caliber of those who compose it. As civilization progresses, suffrage, while remaining universal for both sexes, will be effectively modified, regrouped, and otherwise differentiated.

9. Control of public servants. No civil government will be serviceable and effective unless the citizenry possess and use wise techniques of guiding and controlling officeholders and public servants.

10. Intelligent and trained representation. The survival of democracy is dependent on successful representative government; and that is conditioned upon the practice of electing to public offices only those individuals who are technically trained, intellectually competent, socially loyal, and morally fit. Only by such provisions can government of the people, by the people, and for the people be preserved.



[Sponsored by a Melchizedek of Nebadon.]
 
THE EVOLUTION OF REPRESENTATIVE GOVERNMENT



71:2.1 Democracy, while an ideal, is a product of civilization, not of evolution. Go slowly! select carefully! for the dangers of democracy are:


1. Glorification of mediocrity.
2. Choice of base and ignorant rulers.
3. Failure to recognize the basic facts of social evolution.
4. Danger of universal suffrage in the hands of uneducated and indolent majorities.
5. Slavery to public opinion; the majority is not always right.

71:2.7 Public opinion, common opinion, has always delayed society; nevertheless, it is valuable, for, while retarding social evolution, it does preserve civilization. Education of public opinion is the only safe and true method of accelerating civilization; force is only a temporary expedient, and cultural growth will increasingly accelerate as bullets give way to ballots. Public opinion, the mores, is the basic and elemental energy in social evolution and state development, but to be of state value it must be nonviolent in expression.

71:2.8 The measure of the advance of society is directly determined by the degree to which public opinion can control personal behavior and state regulation through nonviolent expression. The really civilized government had arrived when public opinion was clothed with the powers of personal franchise. Popular elections may not always decide things rightly, but they represent the right way even to do a wrong thing. Evolution does not at once produce superlative perfection but rather comparative and advancing practical adjustment.

71:2.9 There are ten steps, or stages, to the evolution of a practical and efficient form of representative government, and these are:


1. Freedom of the person. Slavery, serfdom, and all forms of human bondage must disappear.

2. Freedom of the mind. Unless a free people are educated—taught to think intelligently and plan wisely—freedom usually does more harm than good.

3. The reign of law. Liberty can be enjoyed only when the will and whims of human rulers are replaced by legislative enactments in accordance with accepted fundamental law.

4. Freedom of speech. Representative government is unthinkable without freedom of all forms of expression for human aspirations and opinions.

5. Security of property. No government can long endure if it fails to provide for the right to enjoy personal property in some form. Man craves the right to use, control, bestow, sell, lease, and bequeath his personal property.

6. The right of petition. Representative government assumes the right of citizens to be heard. The privilege of petition is inherent in free citizenship.

7. The right to rule. It is not enough to be heard; the power of petition must progress to the actual management of the government.

8. Universal suffrage. Representative government presupposes an intelligent, efficient, and universal electorate. The character of such a government will ever be determined by the character and caliber of those who compose it. As civilization progresses, suffrage, while remaining universal for both sexes, will be effectively modified, regrouped, and otherwise differentiated.

9. Control of public servants. No civil government will be serviceable and effective unless the citizenry possess and use wise techniques of guiding and controlling officeholders and public servants.

10. Intelligent and trained representation. The survival of democracy is dependent on successful representative government; and that is conditioned upon the practice of electing to public offices only those individuals who are technically trained, intellectually competent, socially loyal, and morally fit. Only by such provisions can government of the people, by the people, and for the people be preserved.



[Sponsored by a Melchizedek of Nebadon.]
Some quality food for thought. [emoji6]
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Some quality food for thought. [emoji6]

Yes, I'd been meaning to consult some more on 'government' in the papers to expand our contemplation and discussion on such. We know the cosmic and heavenly government according to the papers are very well organized, administered and orchestrated. For mortals though on the various inhabited planets, our governments are evolving so to speak, and thru trial and error, we learn thru 'experience' and therefore evolve to better more effective forms of government.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Free will.......................

Free will.......................

~*~*~

Hi all,

Just cross-referencing some of my former posts on 'free will' in another thread, .....see here & here :)

The UB has much to say on 'free will' and in fact is a champion in expounding on the provision of free will, both God's and Man's.

See: Free will in the UB :thumb:


This is always an awesome subject,.....stay tuned.

Hi all,

Just adding my latest post in the 'Free Will' thread where I actually share UB quotes :) See here.

I think most significant if not alarming might be the UB's introduction of the fact of the individual sovereignty of mortal free will, since within traditional Christian theologies such as Calvinism, the emphasis has always been the Sovereignty of God's will, being so great as to over-ride or negate the free will of man. We touch on this issues in the 'free will' thread, but any are free to discussion free will from within the context of the papers here :)
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

BANNED
Banned
Hi all,

Just adding my latest post in the 'Free Will' thread where I actually share UB quotes :) See here.

I think most significant if not alarming might be the UB's introduction of the fact of the individual sovereignty of mortal free will, since within traditional Christian theologies such as Calvinism, the emphasis has always been the Sovereignty of God's will, being so great as to over-ride or negate the free will of man. We touch on this issues in the 'free will' thread, but any are free to discussion free will from within the context of the papers here :)

We have freedom of thought as ... Christians?
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
If it be thy will......

If it be thy will......

That would bring New understanding to... free.. IN Christ!

: )

3:3.3 God is possessed of unlimited power to know all things; his consciousness is universal. His personal circuit encompasses all personalities, and his knowledge of even the lowly creatures is supplemented indirectly through the descending series of divine Sons and directly through the indwelling Thought Adjusters (that prepersonal fragment of God that indwells the mind of man). And furthermore, the Infinite Spirit is all the time everywhere present.

3:3.4 We are not wholly certain as to whether or not God chooses to foreknow events of sin. But even if God should foreknow the freewill acts of his children, such foreknowledge does not in the least abrogate their freedom. One thing is certain: God is never subjected to surprise.

3:3.5 Omnipotence does not imply the power to do the nondoable, the ungodlike act. Neither does omniscience imply the knowing of the unknowable. But such statements can hardly be made comprehensible to the finite mind. The creature can hardly understand the range and limitations of the will of the Creator.

Here we understand that foreknowledge and even predestination in any way shape or form, does NOT abrogate free will. I use the term 'predestination' in a provisional sense, not a fateful one,...since my use of the term includes the nature consequences of free will choice, which includes both life and death perogatives. - hence such free will can choose life or death in their ultimate sense, the former finalizing in immortality, the latter in disintegration.

118:7.1 The function of Creator will and creature will, in the grand universe, operates within the limits, and in accordance with the possibilities, established by the Master Architects. This foreordination of these maximum limits does not, however, in the least abridge the sovereignty of creature will within these boundaries. Neither does ultimate foreknowledge—full allowance for all finite choice—constitute an abrogation of finite volition. A mature and farseeing human being might be able to forecast the decision of some younger associate most accurately, but this foreknowledge takes nothing away from the freedom and genuineness of the decision itself. The Gods have wisely limited the range of the action of immature will, but it is true will, nonetheless, within these defined limits.

Now as pertaining the phrase 'freedom in Christ'...yes..within a New Testament context....such is that spiritual liberty available in the Spirit of God and the poured out spirit of truth, from the Lord Jesus, which the UB also confirms, as the Spirit of God is the life-principle, living breath and energy which infuses man with that life and consciousness of divinity, - that same 'anointing' of spirit-activity leading, guiding and teaching him. We have however some different terms and definitions in a biblical context and a UB-context, and any comparison or synergy of the two must include some precursory or adequate knowledge of the two :) - which is actually the benefit or endeavor of this very thread. - for more see OP and the thread thru-out, - one may also use the search feature to search out any particular topic that might be in this thread, in the upper right corner.

There is much more to share from the papers (Urantia papers) on this subject,....pages on pages. But this shall suffice for now, a small cosmic tickler :crackup:
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Banned
Here we understand that foreknowledge and even predestination in any way shape or form, does NOT abrogate free will. I use the term 'predestination' in a provisional sense, not a fateful one,...since my use of the term includes the nature consequences of free will choice, which includes both life and death perogatives. - hence such free will can choose life or death in their ultimate sense, the former finalizing in immortality, the latter in disintegration.



Now as pertaining the phrase 'freedom in Christ'...yes..within a New Testament context....such is that spiritual liberty available in the Spirit of God and the poured out spirit of truth, from the Lord Jesus, which the UB also confirms, as the Spirit of God is the life-principle, living breath and energy which infuses man with that life and consciousness of divinity, - that same 'anointing' of spirit-activity leading, guiding and teaching him. We have however some different terms and definitions in a biblical context and a UB-context, and any comparison or synergy of the two must include some precursory or adequate knowledge of the two :) - which is actually the benefit or endeavor of this very thread. - for more see OP and the thread thru-out, - one may also use the search feature to search out any particular topic that might be in this thread, in the upper right corner.

There is much more to share from the papers (Urantia papers) on this subject,....pages on pages. But this shall suffice for now, a small cosmic tickler :crackup:

Dogma has created a cookie cutter Christian. People forget that what is done by ostracization and peer disapproval... in our Western culture... was once done with racks, drowning, burning, dismemberment, drawing and quartering, starvation, and many other forms of torture.

Though I know that just being on this thread brings eyes on me... of disapproval, I commend you for taking the time to ensure people know the True Light is Free.

; )

# Transcendent God... Mundane Man...
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
True and false liberty......

True and false liberty......

Dogma has created a cookie cutter Christian. People forget that what is done by ostracization and peer disapproval... in our Western culture... was once done with racks, drowning, burning, dismemberment, drawing and quartering, starvation, and many other forms of torture.

Though I know that just being on this thread brings eyes on me... of disapproval, I commend you for taking the time to ensure people know the True Light is Free.

; )

# Transcendent God... Mundane Man...

Yes, dogma can imprison the freedom of the spirit, to which divine will would inspire to set your wings to the skies, to the greater expanse of space. Only fear or disinterest would keep one from looking into any given religious book or movement, when a more liberal eclectic student of religion has many different religious books in his library, for Reality is all-inclusive, no matter how you define, judge or label....what it all includes :) - (this includes the entire spectrum of reality and non-reality, light & shadow, good & evil).

Liberty is ours, its just a matter of what we do with that freedom. The papers on The Lucifer Rebellion offer some insights into true liberty and false liberty - enjoy a meditation on a portion below to inspire ur freedom to choose the highest -

Spoiler

54:1.1 Of all the perplexing problems growing out of the Lucifer rebellion, none has occasioned more difficulty than the failure of immature evolutionary mortals to distinguish between true and false liberty.

54:1.2 True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress. False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space. Enduring liberty is predicated on the reality of justice—intelligence, maturity, fraternity, and equity.

54:1.3 Liberty is a self-destroying technique of cosmic existence when its motivation is unintelligent, unconditioned, and uncontrolled. True liberty is progressively related to reality and is ever regardful of social equity, cosmic fairness, universe fraternity, and divine obligations.

54:1.4 Liberty is suicidal when divorced from material justice, intellectual fairness, social forbearance, moral duty, and spiritual values. Liberty is nonexistent apart from cosmic reality, and all personality reality is proportional to its divinity relationships.

54:1.5 Unbridled self-will and unregulated self-expression equal unmitigated selfishness, the acme of ungodliness. Liberty without the associated and ever-increasing conquest of self is a figment of egoistic mortal imagination. Self-motivated liberty is a conceptual illusion, a cruel deception. License masquerading in the garments of liberty is the forerunner of abject bondage.

54:1.6 True liberty is the associate of genuine self-respect; false liberty is the consort of self-admiration. True liberty is the fruit of self-control; false liberty, the assumption of self-assertion. Self-control leads to altruistic service; self-admiration tends towards the exploitation of others for the selfish aggrandizement of such a mistaken individual as is willing to sacrifice righteous attainment for the sake of possessing unjust power over his fellow beings.

54:1.7 Even wisdom is divine and safe only when it is cosmic in scope and spiritual in motivation.

54:1.8 There is no error greater than that species of self-deception which leads intelligent beings to crave the exercise of power over other beings for the purpose of depriving these persons of their natural liberties. The golden rule of human fairness cries out against all such fraud, unfairness, selfishness, and unrighteousness. Only true and genuine liberty is compatible with the reign of love and the ministry of mercy.

54:1.9 How dare the self-willed creature encroach upon the rights of his fellows in the name of personal liberty when the Supreme Rulers of the universe stand back in merciful respect for these prerogatives of will and potentials of personality! No being, in the exercise of his supposed personal liberty, has a right to deprive any other being of those privileges of existence conferred by the Creators and duly respected by all their loyal associates, subordinates, and subjects.

- UB
 
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