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Thread: One on One: Door and Jerry Shugart on 1 John 1:1-10

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    Despite you false accusation I never said that any Christian can perish. In fact, I have repeatedly stated the opposite and you know it.
    I never said you did Jerry. Read what I said again. It was a comparison to your saying that the word prepetual can mean something besides perpetual.


    You lack basic communication skills. At one time I thought you were a fairly bright fellow, but now I see that you are just a retard.

  2. #62
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Door View Post
    You lack basic communication skills. At one time I thought you were a fairly bright fellow, but now I see that you are just a retard.
    Again, you have no answers so instead of responding you make personal attacks in ther hope that no one will notice that you did not even attempt to defend your views.
    ...in no way do I reject or deny that a believer is to sanctify their bodies and their minds.
    But you close your eyes to the state of a Christian when he does not sanctify his body.

    When he sins he becomes defiled and is no longer holy. That is why the Christian is told the following:

    "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of living; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy" (1 Pet.1:16-17).

    The Apostle Peter tells the Christian to be "holy" in all manner of living. That means that a Christian can sin and become unholy, defiled by that sin. And the Lord has made provision for the Christian who sins and therefore becomes unholy:

    "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:9).

    But you deny that the Christian ever needs cleansing from the defilement that is caused by sin. Can you not understand that the sins which any man commits, whether he be saved or not, defiles that man? The Lord Jesus said:

    "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man" (Mt.15:18-20).

    You say that since a Christian sin's were cleansed earlier at his conversion then he no longer needs cleansing. Then you quote verses that are in regard to a Christian's "standing" in order to attempt to prove your assertion while ignoring all the verses that are in regard to his "walk."

    You just cannot seem to understand that any sins that a Christian commits during his "walk" defiles him. Then you deny the very provision which the Lord makes for cleansing the Christian from the defilement caused by sin. Here John, who is a Christian, speaks of this provision to other Christians:

    "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:9).

    Here the word "we" must be in reference to Christians since John is included when he says "we," because John is a Christian. And the word "our" must be in reference to Christians, since John says that this epistle is written to Christians (1 Jn.2:12).

    So if words have any meaning the Apostle John is telling Christians to confess their sins, and as a result the Lord will cleanse them from the defilement which that sin caused.

    But you expect others to get stupid and believe you when you say that John is not telling Christians to confess their sins.

    You have given no reasonable explanation why anyone should not believe that when John uses the words "we" and "our" that those words are in reference to Christians.

    And why would the Lord tell His disciples to pray in the following way?:

    "Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil" (Lk.11:3-4).

    In His grace,
    Jerry
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; July 12th, 2008 at 12:12 PM.

  3. #63
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    The answer is Here

  4. #64
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Door View Post
    The "we" and "our" and "us" are Christians, Jerome.
    The man finally got something right! Give the man a hand!
    The "we" does not include those to whom he is writing. If it was, then the "we" would also mean that those who he is writing to were also witnesses of the risen Christ whom they had touched. The "we" is John and those who touched, saw, and handled the Lord Jesus.
    Even if you are right John is saying that he must confess his sins in order top have those sins cleansed:

    "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:9).

    Are you saying that only those Christians who saw and heard the Lord Jesus are to confess their sins but other Christians are not?

    I cannot understand what point that you are trying to make.
    ...in no way do I reject or deny that a believer is to sanctify their bodies and their minds.
    But you close your eyes to the state of a Christian when he does not sanctify his body.

    When he sins he becomes defiled and is no longer holy. That is why the Christian is told the following:

    "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of living; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy" (1 Pet.1:16-17).

    The Apostle Peter tells the Christian to be "holy" in all manner of living. That means that a Christian can sin and become unholy, defiled by that sin. And the Lord has made provision for the Christian who sins and therefore becomes unholy:

    "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:9).

    But you deny that the Christian ever needs cleansing from the defilement that is caused by sin. Can you not understand that the sins which any man commits, whether he be saved or not, defiles that man? The Lord Jesus said:

    "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man" (Mt.15:18-20).

    You say that since a Christian sin's were cleansed earlier at his conversion then he no longer needs cleansing. Then you quote verses that are in regard to a Christian's "standing" in order to attempt to prove your assertion while ignoring all the verses that are in regard to his "walk."

    You just cannot seem to understand that any sins that a Christian commits during his "walk" defiles him. Then you deny the very provision which the Lord makes for cleansing the Christian from the defilement caused by sin. Here John, who is a Christian, speaks of this provision for himself:

    "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:9).

    And why would the Lord tell His disciples to pray in the following way?:

    "Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil" (Lk.11:3-4).

    In His grace,
    Jerry

  5. #65
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    At John 13 the Lord Jesus speaks of a two fold cleansing:

    "After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples' feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him. He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, 'Lord, are you going to wash my feet?' Jesus replied, 'You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.' 'No,' said Peter, 'you shall never wash my feet.' Jesus answered, 'Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.' 'Then, Lord,' Simon Peter replied, 'not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!' Jesus answered, 'A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.' " (Jn.13:6-10).

    Here is a commentary on these verses:

    "The underlying imagery is of an oriental returning from the public baths to his house. His feet would acquire defilement and require cleaning, but not his body. So the believer is cleansed as before the law from all sin 'once for all' (Heb.10:1-2), but needs throughout his earthly life to bring his daily sins to the Father in confession, so that he may abide in unbroken fellowship with the Father and the Son (1 Jn.1:1-10). The blood of Christ answers forever to all the law could say as to the believer's guilt, but he needs constant cleansing from the defilement of sin" (The New Scofield Study Bible, note at John 13:10).

    We can read that the Lord Jesus told His disciples, "You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand."

    If the cleansing of their feet was not in regard to the teaching of John at 1 John 1:9 then what is it in regard to?

    In His grace,
    Jerry

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