Free Will

Nanja

Well-known member
Can a man with his own freewill come to Jesus Christ Jn 6:44 ?


The natural man has no ability to do anything that pleases God Rom. 8:8.

First God gives a person Faith in New Birth, then he has the God-Given ability by the Holy Spirit's power working in him to come to Christ / believe on Him Phil. 1:29; 2:13.

John 3:27
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The natural man has no ability to do anything that pleases God Rom. 8:8.

First God gives a person Faith in New Birth, then he has the God-Given ability by the Holy Spirit's power working in him to come to Christ / believe on Him Phil. 1:29; 2:13.

John 3:27
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
Amen Sister, but watch how the freewill worshippers respond.

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God's Truth

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Yep, we already know Brother.

So sad to see someone ensnared. However, you would not have been ensnared if you would have obeyed Jesus.

1 Timothy 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.


Humble yourselves and repent for following falseness. There is still hope if you obey.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
So sad to see someone ensnared. However, you would not have been ensnared if you would have obeyed Jesus.

1 Timothy 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.


Humble yourselves and repent for following falseness. There is still hope if you obey.
Can a person with their own freewill decide to come to Christ? Look at Jn 6:44 and answer that question with yes or no.

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JudgeRightly

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The natural man has no ability to do anything that pleases God Rom. 8:8.

First God gives a person Faith in New Birth, then he has the God-Given ability by the Holy Spirit's power working in him to come to Christ / believe on Him Phil. 1:29; 2:13.

John 3:27
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
You're exactly right. On our own, left to our own devices, man will not come to God. It's once he's convicted that he's a sinner in need of a Savior that he turns to God to repent.

God can call to man, and woo him, but God cannot change a man's heart. Look at what happened to Pharoah.
Can a person with their own freewill decide to come to Christ? Look at Jn 6:44 and answer that question with yes or no.

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If a man is called by God, he has the option to come to repentance. Without God calling him, there's little doubt that a man would not come to Christ. But even so, you're missing the bigger picture here. Yes, God calls to people, but the people have to respond to Him. If they choose not to respond, then there is NOTHING God can do to make them come to him. See Pharaoh.

(repost for b57 and Nanja to see this)

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Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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'Imputed Righteousness' is forensic- it is something that is both evidenced and applied.
And it's applied by God, who draws the person inward.

These are basic, indisputable things that are nonetheless becoming abandoned by many churches in favor of their obsession of free will and a demand for an 'easy believist' religion.

The only thing they know about 'conviction' is convicting other people of sin, they don't undergo a conviction of their own- these are the people who consistently use their self as a measure for what should be, even though they contradict even their own selves.

Non-catholic churches have simply gone the route of the old catholic priests- they are ironically pharisaic for their easy measure, and dupe the generation behind them into lukewarm belief.

Crucible,

I've read this like 4 times to make sure I'm onto it. In these words, you're glorifying what Jesus has done for us. You then cite the "draw" of Jesus. I see that as His Love. Even if doctrine is in your verbiage faintly, I can genuinely say that it is near nill. I understand you and "almost" can't disagree at one point.

You just stated scripturaly defensive gospel facts and the way they are falling away from many of the houses built by human hands. I didn't feel one drop of reformed theology getting shoved down my throat in this post. It was simply looking out with a keen spiritual eye.

I was nodding my head in agreement.... but.... then I saw it...

You trash it all by bashing free will and insinuate easy believism towards all non Calvin perspectives.

# Had to stop reading it. I started choaking on the desperation to propagate TULIP.
 
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Nanja

Well-known member
You're exactly right. On our own, left to our own devices, man will not come to God. It's once he's convicted that he's a sinner in need of a Savior that he turns to God to repent.

God can call to man, and woo him, but God cannot change a man's heart. Look at what happened to Pharoah.

If a man is called by God, he has the option to come to repentance. Without God calling him, there's little doubt that a man would not come to Christ. But even so, you're missing the bigger picture here. Yes, God calls to people, but the people have to respond to Him. If they choose not to respond, then there is NOTHING God can do to make them come to him. See Pharaoh.

(repost for b57 and Nanja to see this)

Sent from my Pixel XL using TheologyOnline mobile app



Utter nonsense.

Lam. 5:21
Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

It is God who Gives an Elect man a New Heart in New Birth Ezek. 36:26-27.

And the evidence of having been given a New Heart is that they shall Believe on Him / come to Him.

Now a person must believe to turn to the Lord Gal. 5:22; Acts 11:21, but there are those who can't believe because the gospel is hid from them 2 Cor. 4:3-4


Unless a person has been Given New Birth, his own turning and repenting are just filthy works of the flesh Rom. 8:8.

So the only ones which shall have the God-Given ability to come to Him are His Children, chosen of God the Father, in union with Christ their Covenant Head and Surety Heb. 7:22 before the foundation of the world, according to the good pleasure of His Will.

Eph. 1:4-5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Utter nonsense.

Lam. 5:21
Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

It is God who Gives an Elect man a New Heart in New Birth Ezek. 36:26-27.

And the evidence of having been given a New Heart is that they shall Believe on Him / come to Him.

Now a person must believe to turn to the Lord Gal. 5:22; Acts 11:21, but there are those who can't believe because the gospel is hid from them 2 Cor. 4:3-4


Unless a person has been Given New Birth, his own turning and repenting are just filthy works of the flesh Rom. 8:8.

So the only ones which shall have the God-Given ability to come to Him are His Children, chosen of God the Father, in union with Christ their Covenant Head and Surety Heb. 7:22 before the foundation of the world, according to the good pleasure of His Will.

Eph. 1:4-5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Well Said!

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JudgeRightly

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Utter nonsense.

Lam. 5:21
Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

It is God who Gives an Elect man a New Heart in New Birth Ezek. 36:26-27.

And the evidence of having been given a New Heart is that they shall Believe on Him / come to Him.

Now a person must believe to turn to the Lord Gal. 5:22; Acts 11:21, but there are those who can't believe because the gospel is hid from them 2 Cor. 4:3-4


Unless a person has been Given New Birth, his own turning and repenting are just filthy works of the flesh Rom. 8:8.

So the only ones which shall have the God-Given ability to come to Him are His Children, chosen of God the Father, in union with Christ their Covenant Head and Surety Heb. 7:22 before the foundation of the world, according to the good pleasure of His Will.

Eph. 1:4-5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
So you're saying that God is like a man who kidnaps a woman, forces her into his home, cements up the windows and doors and commands her to love him?

That's sick.

I believe God is like a man who woos a woman, so that she marries him, and comes with him willingly into his home, and gladly loves him and bears his children.

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Nanja

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So you're saying that God is like a man who kidnaps a woman, forces her into his home, cements up the windows and doors and commands her to love him?

That's sick.

I believe God is like a man who woos a woman, so that she marries him, and comes with him willingly into his home, and gladly loves him and bears his children.

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You think evil thoughts against God just like your father John 8:44.
 

Nanja

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That doesn't answer my question. Is God like the first man in my example? or like the second?

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Not interested in your carnal thoughts.



The scriptures declare that God does all things according to His Will.

Job 23:13-14
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.
 

JudgeRightly

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Not interested in your carnal thoughts.



The scriptures declare that God does all things according to His Will.

Job 23:13-14
But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

Nanja, it's a simple question about the nature of God. How is that carnal?

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TulipBee

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That depends on their content within any given context. I've already proposed valid points on free will here, from metaphysical, philosophical and theological perspectives, and laid open the dialogue to include more study, since its a complex, multi-faceted subject. You cant just throw a few favorite TULIP verses up and think everything will come up roses, since there's a greater context involved. Free will from a libertarian or compatiblist view remains to be explored, as well as the 'middle view',....since there are many dimensions to consider when discussing free will and divine providence.

I've changed gears in my approach and did bring up a direct question of an event in Genesis, and the question concerning Adam and Eve also is presented to you. Have you considered the question? Do you have an answer for such? Following this new direction, I'll be sharing OT scripture that supports free will, from a traditional-orthodox Jewish perspective, and maybe throw in a little Kaballah (like in most religious traditions, there are varied and different points of view, different nuances). Since 'scripture' seems to be so important for some, we'll dig a little deeper into 'hebrew' roots, their philosophers and rabbi's take on things, their commentary on their 'scriptures'.
Sorry I stopped at the second word. You used "depends". Apic fail, again.
 
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