pacifism for true Jesus' followers.

musterion

musterion

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At the end of June 1944 during the Battle of Saipan, Hirohito sent out the first imperial order encouraging all Japanese civilians to commit suicide rather than be taken prisoner.

The Imperial order authorized Lieutenant General Yoshitsugu Saitō, the commander of Saipan, to promise civilians who died there an equal spiritual status in the afterlife with those of soldiers perishing in combat. General Tojo intercepted the order on June 30 and delayed its sending, but it was issued anyway the next day. By the time the Marines advanced on the north tip of the island, from 8–12 July, most of the damage had been done:[30] over 1,000 Japanese civilians committed suicide in the last days of the battle to take the offered privileged place in the afterlife, many jumping from "Suicide Cliff" and "Banzai Cliff".[31]
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musterion

musterion

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In early 1945, in the wake of the losses in Battle of Leyte, Emperor Hirohito began a series of individual meetings with senior government officials to consider the progress of the war. All but ex-Prime Minister Fumimaro Konoe advised continuing the war. Konoe feared a communist revolution even more than defeat in war and urged a negotiated surrender. In February 1945, during the first private audience with the Emperor which he had been allowed in three years,[32]Konoe advised Hirohito to begin negotiations to end the war. According to Grand Chamberlain Hisanori Fujita, the Emperor, still looking for a tennozan (a great victory) in order to provide a stronger bargaining position, firmly rejected Konoe's recommendation.[33]

With each passing week a great victory became less likely. In April the Soviet Union issued notice that it would not renew its neutrality agreement. Japan's ally Germany surrendered in early May 1945. In June, the cabinet reassessed the war strategy, only to decide more firmly than ever on a fight to the last man. This strategy was officially affirmed at a brief Imperial Council meeting, at which, as was normal, the Emperor did not speak.

The following day, Lord Keeper of the Privy Seal Kōichi Kido prepared a draft document which summarized the hopeless military situation and proposed a negotiated settlement. Extremists in Japan were also calling for a death-before-dishonor mass suicide, modeled on the "47 Ronin" incident. By mid-June 1945, the cabinet had agreed to approach the Soviet Union to act as a mediator for a negotiated surrender, but not before Japan's bargaining position had been improved by repulse of the anticipated Allied invasion of mainland Japan.

On June 22, the Emperor met with his ministers, saying "I desire that concrete plans to end the war, unhampered by existing policy, be speedily studied and that efforts be made to implement them." The attempt to negotiate a peace via the Soviet Union came to nothing. There was always the threat that extremists would carry out a coup or foment other violence. On July 26, 1945, the Allies issued the Potsdam Declaration demanding unconditional surrender. The Japanese government council, the Big Six, considered that option and recommended to the Emperor that it be accepted only if one to four conditions were agreed upon, including a guarantee of the Emperor's continued position in Japanese society. The Emperor decided not to surrender.
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KingdomRose

KingdomRose

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drbrumley said:
Chester Nimitz

"The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace before the atomic age was announced to the world with the destruction of Hiroshima and before the Russian entry into the war."

Given in speech dated October 5, 1945 at the Washington Monument.
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brumley, you are never going to get through the fog to converse reasonably with people like we find here on this thread who will justify war no matter what Jesus said about loving our enemies. For someone who loves war, there is no discussion. You will be beating your head against a wall.:bang: How on earth can it be disputed that the Japanese would have surrendered WITHOUT the bombs being dropped? The only thing that explains the ignoring of that fact is that people will defend war no matter what, even if children are skinned alive.
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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KingdomRose said:
brumley, you are never going to get through the fog to converse reasonably with people like we find here on this thread who will justify war no matter what Jesus said about loving our enemies. For someone who loves war, there is no discussion. You will be beating your head against a wall.:bang: How on earth can it be disputed that the Japanese would have surrendered WITHOUT the bombs being dropped? The only thing that explains the ignoring of that fact is that people will defend war no matter what, even if children are skinned alive.
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Innocent American boys were killed day after day and hour after hour in the Pacific theater, by people whose fate was already sealed, they just wanted to kill as many people as possible, including themselves and their families and children. They didn't care, and America did, and America does, and fools like you would have just let everybody die because "pacifism for true Jesus' followers." :rolleyes:
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

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ok doser said:
never really understood the fascination with the fact that it was a nuclear bomb

you do realize, don't you, that we killed far more civilians with conventional bombing during ww2?


see: Tokyo, Dresden, Hamburg....
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Oh that makes us feel better! Gee, we didn't kill as many with the Nuclear bombs as we did in the rest of the war with conventional bombing! SO WHAT? That makes bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki OK? You are unreal.
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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KingdomRose said:
Oh that makes us feel better! Gee, we didn't kill as many with the Nuclear bombs as we did in the rest of the war with conventional bombing! SO WHAT? That makes bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki OK? You are unreal.
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What makes it OK, and in fact the right, good, moral and honorable thing to do, is that it saved innocent people from being killed. Japan was the aggressor. It is right to protect innocent people from aggressive people.
 
JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

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KingdomRose said:
Oh that makes us feel better! Gee, we didn't kill as many with the Nuclear bombs as we did in the rest of the war with conventional bombing! SO WHAT? That makes bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki OK? You are unreal.
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KR, I have a question that's somewhat related...

Are you against parents spanking their children when the children disobey their parents?
 
ok doser

ok doser

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Nihilo said:
What makes it OK, and in fact the right, good, moral and honorable thing to do, is that it saved innocent people from being killed. Japan was the aggressor. It is right to protect innocent people from aggressive people.
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:thumb:


you'll never get KR to understand this
 
drbrumley

drbrumley

Well-known member
Nihilo said:
Innocent American boys were killed day after day and hour after hour in the Pacific theater, by people whose fate was already sealed, they just wanted to kill as many people as possible, including themselves and their families and children. They didn't care, and America did, and America does, and fools like you would have just let everybody die because "pacifism for true Jesus' followers." :rolleyes:
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Since I am not a pacifist, I know your not talking to me.

But it is nice to know you are willing to sacrifice even Christians. What the Japanese couldn't do in 200 plus years of persecution, we did in mere seconds.

Good job!
 
ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
drbrumley said:
Since I am not a pacifist, I know your not talking to me.

But it is nice to know you are willing to sacrifice even Christians. What the Japanese couldn't do in 200 plus years of persecution, we did in mere seconds.

Good job!
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i would guess that most of the americans in the armed forces identified as Christian :idunno:
 
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