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Thread: A dillema for the "moral" Absolutist...

  1. #91
    TOL Legend Granite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    Fair enough. You have the right to take the cowardly way out and save your own skin.
    ...and the love of my life. Ummm...

    If you think survival and living is inherently cowardly, go ahead, but I don't see any percentage in getting my sweetheart's brains blown out if I can help it.
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    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granite View Post
    ...and the love of my life. Ummm...

    If you think survival and living is inherently cowardly, go ahead, but I don't see any percentage in getting my sweetheart's brains blown out if I can help it.
    So you will actively participate in murder to save your loved one and yourself???? That's cowardly.

    I would rather go down fighting and I know my wife would feel the same way. Neither one of us would find value in becoming criminals just to save our own skin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    That's because their isn't anything morally wrong with trying to save people.

    Let me say this slowly so you can understand.....

    Trying to save people is different than actively helping murderers choose their victims.

    Let me say that again.....

    Trying to save people is different than actively helping murderers choose their victims.


    Let me say that again.....

    Trying to save people is different than actively helping murderers choose their victims.


    Do ya get it????

    Even the mighty_moron agreed his new scenario posed no moral dilemma....

    "I agree that you are not guilty of any crime whichever way you choose." - might_duck
    You are just repeating what duck already said. That was the point of his example. duck said clearly that his example was meant to demonstrate that you can phrase the question in terms of positives and still show that you can't be absolute in your judgement call without damning yourself. Someone will die and you determine who. If you believe in absolutes then you are doomed as a killer. It merely shows that relativism, far from being simply an excuse to do what you want, is a solution to the inevitable. Under relativism you saved the most savable. Under absolutism, you killed, period. It shows the intractability of absolutism.

  4. #94
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    I say..... Lets Roll!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    So you will actively participate in murder to save your loved one and yourself???? That's cowardly.

    I would rather go down fighting and I know my wife would feel the same way. Neither one of us would find value in becoming criminals just to save our own skin.
    I provided my answer to this hypothetical a while ago, earlier on the thread. Saving my life and the life of the most important person to me trumps the lives of any stranger.
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    Resident Fiend Gerald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granite View Post
    I provided my answer to this hypothetical a while ago, earlier on the thread. Saving my life and the life of the most important person to me trumps the lives of any stranger.
    Which is as it should be.
    "If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization."

    --Weinberg's Second Law

  7. #97
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosingMyReligion View Post
    You are just repeating what duck already said. That was the point of his example. duck said clearly that his example was meant to demonstrate that you can phrase the question in terms of positives and still show that you can't be absolute in your judgement call without damning yourself. Someone will die and you determine who. If you believe in absolutes then you are doomed as a killer. It merely shows that relativism, far from being simply an excuse to do what you want, is a solution to the inevitable. Under relativism you saved the most savable. Under absolutism, you killed, period. It shows the intractability of absolutism.
    mighty_ducks alternate scenario isn't a absolute moral dilemma.

    Attempting to save lives, knowing that you can't save them all isn't a crime.

    There is simply so other way to say that. If you can't comprehend that, I guess I can't help you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granite View Post
    I provided my answer to this hypothetical a while ago, earlier on the thread. Saving my life and the life of the most important person to me trumps the lives of any stranger.
    Yet in this scenario you need to participate in murder to save yourself and your loved one. That makes you a coward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald View Post
    Which is as it should be.
    Coward.
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    Rookie LosingMyReligion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    That's because their isn't anything morally wrong with trying to save people.
    I agree - because of relativism. In a relativist view, there isn't anything wrong with saving people even if others can't be saved. But in an absolutist view there is because there is absolutely no room for one death being less bad than another. You are left with no possible way out, no reason for one choice over the other. That's why the philosophy breaks down. That's the whole point we are trying to demonstrate. It seems that each argument you raise is in support of a relativist view.

  11. #101
    Resident Fiend Gerald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    Attempting to save lives, knowing that you can't save them all isn't a crime.
    And attempting to save lives, knowing that you can't save any is getting yourself killed for nothing.
    "If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization."

    --Weinberg's Second Law

  12. #102
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosingMyReligion View Post
    But in an absolutist view there is because there is absolutely no room for one death being less bad than another.
    That might be one of the most asinine things ever typed on this forum.

    You are an unadulterated moron.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    Yet in this scenario you need to participate in murder to save yourself and your loved one. That makes you a coward.
    It's easy to make judgments like this but a quick dismissal often belies reality. I don't consider the sonderkommandos "cowards"; I consider them people who did what they had to do. Dipping into fiction, I don't see the tragic character of Sophie Zawistowski as a "coward" based on the hideous "choice" she had to make. What you do to survive in such a nightmarish situation is beyond what we'd retrospectively call cowardice.
    If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire.
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  14. #104
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald View Post
    And attempting to save lives, knowing that you can't save any is getting yourself killed for nothing.
    You are wrong.

    I would spit in the face of the killers and go down fighting. I am not going to join up with evil and help some retards murder people.

    I will not do evil so that good may come of it. I will stand with all the other men and women who willing give their lives for the cause of what is right.

    I will let you losers take the sissy's way out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    Coward.
    If I'm faced with a situation in which the choices are for me and mine to live OR everybody dies including me and mine, then I'm going to save me and mine.

    Like I said, trying to save lives by fighting when anything you attempt is going to fail and get you and everybody else killed is just throwing your life away for nothing.

    All your action would accomplish is assuage your Manly Pride™ right before you die.
    "If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization."

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