The T in TaNaKh is for Torah.

TweetyBird

New member
You are taking the usual categories far too literally. Nobody is suggesting that Moses wasn't a prophet! There really is nothing wrong with the usual division. It serves a purpose.

For one who is Jewish, I understand that it serves a purpose. But as a Christian, it serves no purpose at all. That is why our religions are unrelated.


We certainly look at it differently, but the division is widely accepted, as far as I know. And who Jacob is isn't really relevant to the validity of his statements.

His statements are not valid. He is trying to blend Christianity into Judaism. I am certain that is not acceptable to you ... :think:
 

TweetyBird

New member
Jacob is completely correct on the acronym TNK תנ"ך You can't make that go away by saying it's "Talmudic". Not to mention that Jesus seems to use the same terms:
Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

TaNaKh is a Talmudic concept. I did not say it was incorrect as this is the Jewish designation for the OT. Jesus was not referring to the acronym "TaNaKh" - as it did not exist at that point, anyway. The "Law", to Jesus, meant differently than Judaism or the Mosaic Law.
 

chair

Well-known member
For one who is Jewish, I understand that it serves a purpose. But as a Christian, it serves no purpose at all. That is why our religions are unrelated.

His statements are not valid. He is trying to blend Christianity into Judaism. I am certain that is not acceptable to you ... :think:

The religions are related, like it or not. They are also very different- but that has nothing to do with the technical question of the how the OT is divided into sections. Jacob, irrespective of his beliefs, has presented the Jewish division of the Hebrew Bible.

It does remain a fact that Jesus used at least part of the Jewish division of the Bible. He refers to "The Law"- which means the 5 books of Moses (Torah). And to the "Prophets".

The King James version refers to the first 5 books of the Bible as "The First Book of Moses", "The Second book of Moses" and so on. So those Christians accepted that part of the traditional division.

It seems that you are hung up here on something that is not really that important. I am not sure why. Maybe you need to disagree with certain posters here, even on things that are not important.
 

TweetyBird

New member
The religions are related, like it or not. They are also very different- but that has nothing to do with the technical question of the how the OT is divided into sections. Jacob, irrespective of his beliefs, has presented the Jewish division of the Hebrew Bible.

Christianity and Judaism are two different religions.

Christianity does not divide the OT into 3 segments. Judaism divides the OT into 3 segments.

It does remain a fact that Jesus used at least part of the Jewish division of the Bible. He refers to "The Law"- which means the 5 books of Moses (Torah). And to the "Prophets".

Referring to the Law does not mean Jesus was referring to "Torah" as indicated in the TaNaKh. Jesus also said that what David wrote in Psalms was Law. There are other laws mentioned in the NT that do not occur in the Mosaic Law.

The King James version refers to the first 5 books of the Bible as "The First Book of Moses", "The Second book of Moses" and so on. So those Christians accepted that part of the traditional division.

The KJ did not use "Torah", it said Moses - because Moses wrote them :)

It seems that you are hung up here on something that is not really that important. I am not sure why. Maybe you need to disagree with certain posters here, even on things that are not important.

The person who started all of this has started at least 2 threads and keeps referring to it as if it means something. So far, all questions and comments have been answered with a "no", without discussion. No one is actually sure why this topic was brought up and the significance of it. This person seems to think they are knowledgeable, when they are not. This person appears to be parroting information heard from Messianicism, which makes it highly questionable. This person, who says he is a Jew and practicing Judaism and Christianity seems to think that Christians should be keeping the Mosaic Law. Do you believe this as well?
 

chair

Well-known member
...seems to think that Christians should be keeping the Mosaic Law. Do you believe this as well?

Jews should keep Jewish Law. Many Christians get all uptight about this, mostly because historically the first Christians were Jews, and Paul had to deal with the tensions in a Jewish sect that started attracting non-Jews.

Today it is irrelevant.

I won't comment further on the division of the OT.
 

TweetyBird

New member
Jews should keep Jewish Law. Many Christians get all uptight about this, mostly because historically the first Christians were Jews, and Paul had to deal with the tensions in a Jewish sect that started attracting non-Jews.

Today it is irrelevant.

I won't comment further on the division of the OT.

The reasons that Christians do not need to keep the Law is 1) they are not Jewish/nation of Israel and not under the Mosaic Law covenant and 2) they are in a new covenant ratified in the blood of Christ which has no ethnicity or culture.That is why Judaism and Christianity are unrelated.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
There is atonement possible without bloodshed.......

There is atonement possible without bloodshed.......

I don't know any jews who keep the law they love. NONE of them do animal sacrifices. Instead they rely on theology to explain away the need of sacrifice. When only blood can possibly take away sin. Not that animal sacrifices are still valid - just making a statement.

The shedding of blood is not the only means of obtaining atonement. Sins were forgiven by other means in the OT records. Furthermore, the OT teaches that a person cannot die for the sins of another, since each are to make an atonement for their own sins by reparation, repentance, right doing. Note also that the 'sin sacrifice' (animal blood) only covered 'unintentional sins' (Numbers 15:27-31).

See:

Jews believe that one person's death
cannot atone for the sins of another.


Jews believe that a blood sacrifice is
not required for forgiveness of sins


Does Israel's CREATOR Require
Blood to Atone for Sin?
 

chair

Well-known member
I don't know any jews who keep the law they love. NONE of them do animal sacrifices. Instead they rely on theology to explain away the need of sacrifice. When only blood can possibly take away sin. Not that animal sacrifices are still valid - just making a statement.

What you are really saying is that "I don't know any Jews who keep the Law the way I think they ought to." Guess what? - it's not up to you.
 

chair

Well-known member
Jewish people are delusional.
Nope. The delusion is yours. The idea that we should maintain a religion frozen for 3,000 years, to fulfill some kind of Christian fantasy, is ridiculous. It's our religion, not yours.
 

TweetyBird

New member
What you are really saying is that "I don't know any Jews who keep the Law the way I think they ought to." Guess what? - it's not up to you.

According to the written Scriptures and the written Law spoken by God to Moses, the Jews are not keeping it as given. Most rely on the Talmud for interpretation on how to keep it, which in many cases is contradictory or different than what is written. You are right, it's not up to us, it's up to you to get right with the program and stop denying that you are not following the plan as God gave it.
 
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