Questioning Moral Responsibility

PureX

Well-known member
An interesting thought has come to my attention, through a conversation on another thread, with Town, regarding personal moral responsibility. And that is … that I don't believe that we have full control over our own moral choices in life, and so should perhaps not be held fully accountable for them.

Let me try and give an example of what I mean by our not having full control over our own moral choices.

As many of you know, I am a recovered alcoholic. So I believe I can speak to the dynamics of this path with the authority of my own personal experience. And here is what I know of it: I was born with an inclination to become an alcoholic, by the way alcohol effects my particular brain structure (which I received via my genetic history). When I first drank alcohol, I experienced an intense feeling of euphoria that 'magically' relieved me of an otherwise constant existential discomfort that I'd felt from as far back as I could remember. I understand that other people feel that freedom from self-consciousness, too, when they drink, but not nearly to the degree and intensity that myself, and most alcoholics that I've met, do.

The result was a kind of doubly powerful incentive to 'fall in love' with experience of drinking alcohol, in that it not only relieved me of the constant discomfort of my hyper self-consciousness, but it replaced it with a feeling of freedom, and joy, and expansiveness that was truly euphoric. And together these motivated my drive to drink, and to drink more and more, to a very powerful degree, indeed! It was pretty much an unstoppable drive, as I recall it.

And to counter that very powerful drive to drink was only some vague admonishments from adults about the dangers of drinking. Admonishments that did not seem to stop them from drinking alcohol. And so did little to dissuade me. Such that by the time I was able to comprehend the true nature of the threat of alcohol addiction, I had long since become addicted to it.

The point of all this is to say that I had no real idea of the immorality I was engaged in as a drunkard when I entered into it as a way of life, and by the time I finally was able to recognize the immorality of it, I was powerless to extricate myself from it. (Fortunately for me, there was a way out, eventually, with the help of God and others.) And so I'm forced to question the degree of responsibility that I bear for a choice that I didn't really even make. Or certainly did not make in any "conscious and informed" way.

And the same can be said even of my choice to extricate myself from such an immoral lifestyle, as I was not personally capable of doing so without the help of others, even when I wanted to. So I'm not sure I can take the credit for that, entirely, either.

So I'm wondering, now, about the presumption that we are totally and absolutely responsible for our own moral failings. Are we? Especially when we seem to have so little control over our own choices, and so little information about the eventual outcomes of the choices that we've made?

And if this is the case, then why do we go around assigning moral responsibility to ourselves, and to others, as if it were some sort of moral absolute? And as if we and they had a real choice in the matter?

Thoughts?
 

theophilus

Well-known member
Hello Purex,

First I'll say "Congratulations!" on your ongoing victory against alcohol. It's a tough addiction that many people never overcome.

Second, about moral choices: sometimes I wonder if the deck isn't stacked against us. Even with the power of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit within us we still make bad choices and bad judgments. Alcoholics say they were born that way. Gays say they were born that way, and on and on.

I tend to beat myself up over "perceived" moral failings then go right back to them like a dog to it's vomit. It is a slow-motion downward spiral that never really bottoms out. There are things I don't do/choose anymore, but the presumptuous/willful stuff/sin remains. And I do believe we have absolute control over ourselves and our choices...because Holy God is going to hold me accountable for every thought, word, deed and motive.

Maybe our stupid mistakes/bad judgments/moral weaknesses are why Holy God has rescued us in His Son. He knows our frailty and weakness and He knows how much we need help and strength and perspective. Jesus Christ conquered sin on our behalf but we still sin. The old man of flesh has been buried with Him and raised to new life in Him but we still lust and covet, etc...

We can overcome the deck-stacking but not by ourselves. Therein the need for the Holy Spirit and a God Who loves us and forgives us.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I was born with an inclination to become an alcoholic,

No you weren't. You cannot beat a disease that affects the brain with group therapy. Stop making excuses and quit being spineless.
 

PureX

Well-known member
Thank you for an honest and reasoned response.

… about moral choices: sometimes I wonder if the deck isn't stacked against us. Even with the power of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit within us we still make bad choices and bad judgments.
I don't see how we could do otherwise, really; given the fact that we can't foresee the outcomes of our choices, in advance. Nor how those outcomes actually will effect others further down the road. I mean, we are running almost completely blind, here. And even besides that, it seems to me there are a lot of human behaviors that are "programmed into" us, and that we can't deny even when we think we should, and try very hard to refrain from.

Alcoholics say they were born that way. Gays say they were born that way, and on and on.
I don't think I was born alcoholic, but I certainly was born with an extraordinary susceptibility to become alcoholic. And had my mother been an active alcoholic, I might have been born drunk, even! I have had a number of gay friends over the years, and I have no doubt in my mind that they are telling me the truth of their own experience when they tell me they were "born gay".

Not that this means we MUST act on these genetic inclinations, but I really don't think other people understand just how powerful these genetic inclinations really are. They should think of their own heterosexual drives and dreams, and realize that a homosexual's drives and dreams are just as strong, just as real, and just as important to them as any of us.

I tend to beat myself up over "perceived" moral failings then go right back to them like a dog to it's vomit. It is a slow-motion downward spiral that never really bottoms out. There are things I don't do/choose anymore, but the presumptuous/willful stuff/sin remains.
It is clear to me that we are all victims of ourselves in a similar way. The only difference I note is that some of us have acknowledged this, and are trying to transcend ourselves, while others are actively ignoring their condition and endlessly excusing themselves, while blaming everyone else, so as to remain in ignorance.

In AA they used to say; "progress, not perfection" to remind themselves that it is often one step forward and two steps back. Yet each time we falter, it's another opportunity to practice honesty, and humility, and forgiveness, (… on ourselves). And as with anything, we do get better with persistent practice. We really do!

And I do believe we have absolute control over ourselves and our choices...because Holy God is going to hold me accountable for every thought, word, deed and motive.
Hmmm … I'm not sure why you choose to believe that when you just pointed out how your own experience would tend to contradict it. But that's up to you.

My own view of it is that everything in my life ties me to everyone else. We sink or swim together in this life, and I mean in every way: physically, spiritually, intellectually, and emotionally. The solution to our fear and weakness does not just lay within ourselves, or in God, but within each other. This is certainly the case for me. I would not be sober, nor have remained sober all these years without the love and help of other people; doing God's work in my little corner of the world, to, with, and for, me. The lesson to me is that we succeed or fail, together.

Maybe our stupid mistakes/bad judgments/moral weaknesses are why Holy God has rescued us in His Son. He knows our frailty and weakness and He knows how much we need help and strength and perspective. Jesus Christ conquered sin on our behalf but we still sin. The old man of flesh has been buried with Him and raised to new life in Him but we still lust and covet, etc…
The most amazing thing about the gospel message, to me, is that we are all forgiven, all the time! So that EVERY INSTANT our failures are erased, and we have a new chance to begin again, and to try again to 'get it right'. Yes, it's true, we do fail over and over. Yet every time, we are forgiven, and given another chance to transcend ourselves! To me, that is a message of hope beyond compare! It doesn't mean 'stop trying' (that would disgrace the gift!), it's means KEEP trying! (In honor of that gift of forgiveness.)

We can overcome the deck-stacking but not by ourselves. Therein the need for the Holy Spirit and a God Who loves us and forgives us.
Therein the need for EACH OTHER, too! :)
 
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