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Thread: Expelled? Go to the movies!

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    Journeyman laughsoutloud's Avatar
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    And this from Reasons To Believe: (from an email about the film)
    After previewing the promotional materials provided by the movie's
    marketers, we were concerned that the movie took an adversarial approach to
    the scientific community. A number of RTB scholars and staff attended a
    prerelease screening in Los Angeles recently and confirmed that EXPELLED
    definitely does take such an approach. The movie draws an analogy between
    the Berlin wall and the scientific community's response to intelligent
    design. By doing so, EXPELLED implicitly argues that the scientific
    community deems certain questions off-limits, particularly any question
    about the legitimacy of neo-Darwinian evolution. The movie further argues
    that academia, the media, and the courts all conspire as "thought police" to
    oppress any and all dissent from the party line.

    Clearly some oppression and discrimination have occurred, but the experience
    of RTB scholars and many of their contacts refutes the movie's premise that
    the scientific community systemically and unilaterally fosters these
    injustices. While individual scientists and institutions have behaved
    unfairly at times, this charge cannot in all fairness be leveled against the
    scientific community as a whole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laughsoutloud View Post
    You might want to take a moment to prepare yourself with a little accurate information before you see the movie. Expelled is unfair, inaccurate and deceptive.

    Check out this expelled site.
    You're just afraid of the TRUTH!

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    Journeyman laughsoutloud's Avatar
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    "Flunked, not Expelled"

    Quote Originally Posted by DXPose View Post
    You're just afraid of the TRUTH!
    No truth to be afraid of.

    Like they say at Expelled Exposed, - "Flunked, not Expelled" Go see what Ben Stein is not telling you.

    Oh, and Reasons to Believe... that's a creationist site, right? And they don't think Expelled is accurate. Go figure!

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    Quote Originally Posted by laughsoutloud View Post
    Actually, the site mirrors the outline and claims of the movie. Expelled is, in fact, inaccurate and deceitful.

    For example, the movie claims that Richard Sternberg was fired as editor, and his life ruined after he published a pro-ID article in the journal he edited. In fact, he had already resigned as editor (unrelated to the article), kept his job at NIH, and his Smithsonian unpaid position was renewed.

    The site includes information dealing with creationism, because Expelled repeats lots of creationist propaganda. But don't take my word for it - read the site.
    Wow, so you've already seen the movie? Sneak preview, or something? And you took the time to write down a part of the movie about Richard Sternberg so you could criticize it later... Astonishing, really, that you would care so much. Or...wait. Silly me. You copied that from your anti-Expelled website, didn't you?

    Your statement "don't take my word for it - read the site" isn't helpful. I read the site, and as I said - it was stupid propaganda. Why then would I rely on it for accurate information?

    Here's Richard Sternberg's own website, with his own information about his troubles. I don't even really care if you look at it or not, as it's obvious that you're smearing the movie for no reason other than your personal bias against God and Creation science.
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughsoutloud View Post
    No truth to be afraid of.

    Like they say at Expelled Exposed, - "Flunked, not Expelled" Go see what Ben Stein is not telling you.

    Oh, and Reasons to Believe... that's a creationist site, right? And they don't think Expelled is accurate. Go figure!
    Not really. You need to educate yourself on the facts before making comments.

    Hugh believes that "pre-historic" man predated Adam and that as a result of the non-existent Luciferian rebellion, the Earth was destroyed eaons ago and then re-formed.

    He believes in evolution...but with a pinch of God added.
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughsoutloud View Post

    Oh, and Reasons to Believe... that's a creationist site, right? And they don't think Expelled is accurate. Go figure!
    They do agree with Ben Stein that it should be allowed to question Darwinism. Why does the fact that they don't agree with Ben Stein on how life was created make that a problem?

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    I have a hunch the film will contain its own bias, which is inevitable, but also contain much truth, which is commendable.

    To assume that everyone featured in the documentary was a perfect saint when they were canned, however, is really naive. Some of these people had it coming, from the sounds of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughsoutloud View Post
    I have had to rely on reviews. Of course, you didn't witness any of the events of the bible - you are stuck with the accounts of others- but that is not a problem, is it?

    And it is not like the ID arguments are not well rehearsed!
    I think you need a hot towell, what are you so scared of?
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    Quote Originally Posted by laughsoutloud View Post
    You might want to take a moment to prepare yourself with a little accurate information before you see the movie. Expelled is unfair, inaccurate and deceptive.

    Check out this expelled site.
    Can't you hear the whining tone in their voice as they say, 'It's all inaccurate, none of it's true.' I think they know they're beat and are just trying to throw together a pathetic last ditch effort to save a little dignity after aligning themselves to one of the stupidest theories man's ever invented.
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    Journeyman laughsoutloud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chatmaggot View Post
    Not really. You need to educate yourself on the facts before making comments.

    Hugh believes that "pre-historic" man predated Adam and that as a result of the non-existent Luciferian rebellion, the Earth was destroyed eaons ago and then re-formed.

    He believes in evolution...but with a pinch of God added.
    Pre-Lucifer rebellion? Pre-Lucifer rebellion? Scientific evidence for a pre-Lucifer rebellion? Wow.

    Well, in the absence of any evidence, and wildly creative bible reading, I guess you can reach any conclusion you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laughsoutloud View Post
    Pre-Lucifer rebellion? Pre-Lucifer rebellion? Scientific evidence for a pre-Lucifer rebellion? Wow.

    Well, in the absence of any evidence, and wildly creative bible reading, I guess you can reach any conclusion you want.
    Come one man...you can't be that blind! I was not advocating the idea...which is why I said that it was "non-existent". That means it didn't happen. HOWEVER, the "creation organization" you so called believes in it, which is why I said that RTB isn't really a creationist organization. They believe in evolution with God added.

    Read my friend, read, before you post!
    fidelis usque ad mortem

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    Journeyman laughsoutloud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P8ntrDan View Post
    Can't you hear the whining tone in their voice as they say, 'It's all inaccurate, none of it's true.' I think they know they're beat and are just trying to throw together a pathetic last ditch effort to save a little dignity after aligning themselves to one of the stupidest theories man's ever invented.
    I guess if it is inaccurate and wrong, you supposed to speak in a lower voice, and say, 'It's all inaccurate, none of it's true.' ?

    Or perhaps people with truth on their side silently stand by while the propaganda machine rolls on?

    After years of debate, creationists have not been able to make any case at all - no evidence, no theory, no nothing.

    So they've taken the case directly to the people with a relentless propaganda machine. Who needs facts when you have certainly?

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    Journeyman laughsoutloud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chatmaggot View Post
    Come one man...you can't be that blind! I was not advocating the idea...which is why I said that it was "non-existent". That means it didn't happen. HOWEVER, the "creation organization" you so called believes in it, which is why I said that RTB isn't really a creationist organization.

    Read my friend, read, before you post!
    Sorry, they are just a creationist organization you disagree with.

    THis is one more argument against creationism. With evolution, all the various disciplines give similar pictures, reinforcing evolution.

    Within creationism, there are a wide variety of young and old earth approaches, and many of the arguments frankly contradict each other. This is because there is no underlying reality to the ideas - just rationalizations based on a particular interpretation of the Bible. If there were an underlying truth to creationism, I would expect a greater fidelity to data about the natural world, as well as an internal consistency with the Bible. Neither of these hold true for creationism.

    Just as an example, through Genesis 1 and 2 are clearly 2 separate stories, with different timelines and order for creation, many creationists are forced to conflate the two stories, in clear violation of any reasonable approach to biblical interpretation.

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    Journeyman laughsoutloud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delmar View Post
    They do agree with Ben Stein that it should be allowed to question Darwinism. Why does the fact that they don't agree with Ben Stein on how life was created make that a problem?
    There is no such thing as Darwinism. Evolution is questioned all the time (this is how science moves forward). All you need is an idea and some data. Where is the data for ID? Where is Behe's revised formula for calculating complexity? Where is the list of things designed, and things not designed? Where is the discussion of a mechanism for how the designer intervened? There is really just an argument from ignorance - we can't see how it could have happened, so it must have been designed. Well, ignorance is a poor argument - it only proves that we don't know. "I don't know" is not a particularly strong challenge to evolution. ID's strength comes from the fact that it is a stand-in for creationism.

    You all know that the designer is God, and the hope is that if you can prove ID, then you have proof for creationism. So ID is being marketed to the church, almost exclusively, because a certain segment of the church looks to ID to validate its creationist leanings. That fact that it is not good science, has no data to support it, and is distorting the truth to make its point should be a concern to Christians... frankly, I am even more concerned that the truth is the real victim here, and Christians, who should care, don't.

    Imagine for a moment a class in ID:

    "Stuff is complicated. Really complicated. Really, really complicated. Today we are going to look at how complicated stuff is. You'll be amazed. You know, this stuff is so complicated, somebody just had to have made this stuff."

    (watch plagiarized video from Harvard)

    "Good class, teacher, thanks. Will that be on the exam?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by laughsoutloud View Post
    THis is one more argument against creationism. With evolution, all the various disciplines give similar pictures, reinforcing evolution.
    In what world does this happen? :squint:
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