Rapture Ready

john w said:

[Here for now (Jb 38:19)] Oh.

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lain:

"SECTION OUTLINE TWELVE (REVELATION 12)
John sees an interplay between a woman and a dragon, symbolizing the nation of Israel and Satan.

I. SATAN’S FORMER HATRED FOR GOD AND HIS PEOPLE (12:1–5)
A. His sin at the beginning (12:3–4): This seems to refer to his original fall.
B. His sin at Bethlehem (12; 1–2, 4–5)
1. Satan’s persecution of God’s nation (12:1–2)
2. Satan’s persecution of God’s Son (12:4b, 5b)
a. The birth of Jesus (12:4a, 5a)
b. The ascension of Jesus (12:5c)

II. SATAN’S FUTURE HATRED FOR GOD AND HIS PEOPLE (12:6–18)
A. The woman in the wilderness (12:6, 13–18): The woman here is the nation of Israel.
1. Israel will be persecuted by Satan during the Great Tribulation (12:13, 15, 17–18).
2. Israel will be protected by God during the Great Tribulation (12:6, 14, 16).
B. The war in the heavens (12:7–12): Some believe this will occur in the middle of the Great Tribulation.
1. The results (12:7–9)
a. The defeat of Satan (12:7–8): Michael the archangel will defeat him.
b. The dismissal of Satan (12:9) : He will be cast down to earth.
2. The reaction (12:10–12)
a. Satan will be filled with wrath (12:10b, 12c).
b. Saints will be filled with joy (12:10a, 11–12a).
c. Sinners will be filled with fear (12:12b)" Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Re 12). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.

Related:

Revelation 12 Sign

Cornerstone Church Nashville Christmas Presentation: A Critique Christopher E. Hamrick

Daniel1769 said:

Mark 13 is about gathering the elect from the four winds. That's the rapture.

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"Rapture" does not appear in the Bible. The best thing to do is not use the term. Only Paul said there would be a departure. He revealed a mystery. That means the departure is not revealed in the "old testament", nor by the Lord Jesus Christ. Nobody is arguing that he will not gather his elect (chose).

Nick M said:

"Rapture" does not appear in the Bible. The best thing to do is not use the term. Only Paul said there would be a departure. He revealed a mystery. That means the departure is not revealed in the "old testament", nor by the Lord Jesus Christ. Nobody is arguing that he will not gather his elect (chose).

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It does appear but is just as easily about the state of mind of the person's excitement about seeing a very good friend for the first time in a long time.

The passage it is in is about the removal of christians from Judea in the 1st century before the things described in Mt24A and likewise in the others happen in Judea. There is an event in the great revolt which is so close to what this describes that there is not much need to look further.

Jerry Shugart said:

So we can understand that at Luke 17:35-36 it is the unrighteous who will be taken and the righteous who will remain.

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Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

That is the exact opposite of what will happen at the rapture because then it will be the righteous who are taken and the unrighteous who will be left.

This alone proves that the rapture must take place prior to the great tribulation.

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No.

The verses describe Christs return, not the end of the world.

The pre-trib doctrine teaches the rapture occurs before the tribulation, not before the great tribulation.

LA

Lazy afternoon said:

The verses describe Christs return, not the end of the world.

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Who said that the verses describe the end of the world?

The pre-trib doctrine teaches the rapture occurs before the tribulation, not before the great tribulation.

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That is "the tribulation" described here:

"The" tribulation of those days is described here:

Jerry Shugart said:

Who said that the verses describe the end of the world?



That is "the tribulation" described here:

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken" (Mt.24:29).​

"The" tribulation of those days is described here:

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Mt.24:21).​

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Mt24A (up to v29) was about 1st century Judea and the DofJ. then the end of the world was expected, although a delay was allowed. We know what happened there.

Interplanner said:

Mt24A (up to v29) was about 1st century Judea and the DofJ. then the end of the world was expected, although a delay was allowed. We know what happened there.

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None of the Olivet Discourse is in regard to the end of the world.

Interplanner said:

It does appear but is just as easily about the state of mind of the person's excitement about seeing a very good friend for the first time in a long time.

The passage it is in is about the removal of christians from Judea in the 1st century before the things described in Mt24A and likewise in the others happen in Judea. There is an event in the great revolt which is so close to what this describes that there is not much need to look further.

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:french:

Right Divider said:

:french:

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:chuckle:

Right Divider said:

:french:

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The Thess passage Paul wrote there speaks of an evil person showing himself in that temple, just as Jesus did in Mt24A. He would be destroyed, and was. All that is before v29 where the setting changes to worldwide judgement.

The 'removal' incident was the evacuation or escape of Christians from Jerusalem while the Roman siege stalled in 69.

Interplanner said:

The Thess passage Paul wrote there speaks of an evil person showing himself in that temple, just as Jesus did in Mt24A. He would be destroyed, and was. All that is before v29 where the setting changes to worldwide judgement.

The 'removal' incident was the evacuation or escape of Christians from Jerusalem while the Roman siege stalled in 69.

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You're a loon that gets your "interp" from some silly people and not from the Bible.

You're as blind as they come.

You're the poster boy for unbelief here on TOL. Thanks for that, as now everyone can know what it looks like.

Right Divider said:

You're a loon that gets your "interp" from some silly people and not from the Bible.

You're as blind as they come.

You're the poster boy for unbelief here on TOL. Thanks for that, as now everyone can know what it looks like.

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Do you have a specific text to talk about or are you just self-important declarations?

Interplanner said:

Do you have a specific text to talk about or are you just self-important declarations?

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:french:

How about this one?
Why don't you explain why EVERY Bible translation gets this one wrong, but you know what it should say?

Start an informative and enlightening thread for us all to enjoy.

Right Divider said:

:french:

How about this one?

Ps 23:2 (AKJV/PCE)​

(23:2) He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
​

Why don't you explain why EVERY Bible translation gets this one wrong, but you know what it should say?

Start an informative and enlightening thread for us all to enjoy.

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Oh, I thought the topic was about 1st century events.

all the same, the preposition in the passage is 'past, beyond'. There's your clue. Besides thousands of years of sheepherding in deserts where water is tricky.

Just to recap....

Right Divider said:

You're a loon that gets your "interp" from some silly people and not from the Bible.

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He said you don't believe the Bible. It doesn't mean what it says is your claim. That is why he said this to you. Then you challenged him to give you something so you can explain what it really means.

Interplanner said:

Do you have a specific text to talk about or are you just self-important declarations?

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And he did.

Right Divider said:

:french:

How about this one?

Ps 23:2 (AKJV/PCE)​

(23:2) He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
​

Why don't you explain why EVERY Bible translation gets this one wrong, but you know what it should say?

Start an informative and enlightening thread for us all to enjoy.

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You reply

Interplanner said:

Oh, I thought the topic was about 1st century events.

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And of course you cannot. So you provide misdirection. Just like all the other phonies that come and go like Andyc, godrulz, graceandpeace, keypurr, nang, and on and on with people that do not back up their claim.

Interplanner said:

Oh, I thought the topic was about 1st century events.

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Hence my suggestion to START a NEW thread.

Interplanner said:

all the same, the preposition in the passage is 'past, beyond'. There's your clue. Besides thousands of years of sheepherding in deserts where water is tricky.

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So clueless, as always.

For all his faults, Tet was pretty consistent in his nonsense over time. He could be as evasive as any other fool, and whenever cornered, he'd disappear for awhile and come back to pretend you never said whatever it was he couldn't answer. But he was pretty consistent in what he said he believed.

IP is a fraud who either can't keep his story straight or is too lazy or stupid to bother trying. Just like when he insists he's not a preterist but defends preterism every single day.

Right Divider said:

Hence my suggestion to START a NEW thread.


So clueless, as always.

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Any rational discussion of the Thess letters has to be about the 1st century, hence my suggestion to go back to the text instead of your dim mind about toxic water in deserts all over the world.

You are really hitched on that word clueless so I won't break that habit, but the water problem is universal to deserts and people working with animals in them. There's even folk songs about it.

The point is: he's protecting his sheep, may we agree about that? Maybe you don't believe in contaminated water in deserts, but the Good Shepherd protects his sheep from poison.

And when Thess is speaking of the temple in Jerusalem and the guy from Daniel who says he is God or Messiah, that's the same thing Christ was referring to during the Jewish War of 66+.

Interplanner said:

Any rational discussion of the Thess letters has to be about the 1st century, hence my suggestion to go back to the text instead of your dim mind about toxic water in deserts all over the world.

You are really hitched on that word clueless so I won't break that habit, but the water problem is universal to deserts and people working with animals in them. There's even folk songs about it.

The point is: he's protecting his sheep, may we agree about that? Maybe you don't believe in contaminated water in deserts, but the Good Shepherd protects his sheep from poison.

And when Thess is speaking of the temple in Jerusalem and the guy from Daniel who says he is God or Messiah, that's the same thing Christ was referring to during the Jewish War of 66+.

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So you believe that EVERY translation of the Bible is INCORRECTLY translating a Hebrew word that in EVERY other case is translated PEACEFUL or RESTFUL, etc. etc.

But the GREAT IP knows better and the Holy Spirit inspired Scripture must be translated to agree with YOUR OPINION of what it SHOULD say based on your NATURALISTIC understanding.

How did THIS word get into that verse, if it's the WRONG one?
Always translated as REST or PEACEFUL, etc. etc.

But only IP knows that this is wrong in Psalm 23.

This a perfect illustration of just how self-centered and stupid you are.

Right Divider said:

So you believe that EVERY translation of the Bible is INCORRECTLY translating a Hebrew word that in EVERY other case is translated PEACEFUL or RESTFUL, etc. etc.

But the GREAT IP knows better and the Holy Spirit inspired Scripture must be translated to agree with YOUR OPINION of what it SHOULD say based on your NATURALISTIC understanding.

How did THIS word get into that verse, if it's the WRONG one?

H4496 מְנוּחָה mnuwchah (men-oo-chaw') n-f.​

מְנֻחָה mnuchah (men-oo-chaw') ​

1. repose.​

2. (adverbially) peacefully.​

3. (figuratively) consolation.​

4. (specifically) matrimony.​

5. (hence, concretely) an abode.​

[feminine of H4495]​

KJV: comfortable, ease, quiet, rest(-ing place), still. ​

Root(s): H4495 ​

Gen 49:15 And he saw that rest [was] good, and the land that [it was] pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute. AKJV/PCE​

Num 10:33 ¶ And they departed from the mount of the LORD three days' journey: and the ark of the covenant of the LORD went before them in the three days' journey, to search out a resting place for them. AKJV/PCE​

Deut 12:9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you. AKJV/PCE​

Judg 20:43 [Thus] they inclosed the Benjamites round about, [and] chased them, [and] trode them down with ease over against Gibeah toward the sunrising. AKJV/PCE​

Ruth 1:9 The LORD grant you that ye may find rest, each [of you] in the house of her husband. Then she kissed them; and they lifted up their voice, and wept. AKJV/PCE​

2Sam 14:17 Then thine handmaid said, The word of my lord the king shall now be comfortable: for as an angel of God, so [is] my lord the king to discern good and bad: therefore the LORD thy God will be with thee. AKJV/PCE​

1Kgs 8:56 Blessed [be] the LORD, that hath given rest unto his people Israel, according to all that he promised: there hath not failed one word of all his good promise, which he promised by the hand of Moses his servant. AKJV/PCE​

1Chr 22:9 Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. AKJV/PCE​

1Chr 28:2 Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: [As for me], I [had] in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building: AKJV/PCE​

Ps 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. AKJV/PCE​

Ps 95:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest. AKJV/PCE​

Ps 132:8 Arise, O LORD, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy strength. AKJV/PCE​

Ps 132:14 This [is] my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it. AKJV/PCE​

Isa 11:10 ¶ And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. AKJV/PCE​

Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This [is] the rest [wherewith] ye may cause the weary to rest; and this [is] the refreshing: yet they would not hear. AKJV/PCE​

Isa 32:18 And my people shall dwell in a peaceable habitation, and in sure dwellings, and in quiet resting places; AKJV/PCE​

Isa 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven [is] my throne, and the earth [is] my footstool: where [is] the house that ye build unto me? and where [is] the place of my rest? AKJV/PCE​

Jer 45:3 Thou didst say, Woe is me now! for the LORD hath added grief to my sorrow; I fainted in my sighing, and I find no rest. AKJV/PCE​

Jer 51:59 ¶ The word which Jeremiah the prophet commanded Seraiah the son of Neriah, the son of Maaseiah, when he went with Zedekiah the king of Judah into Babylon in the fourth year of his reign. And [this] Seraiah [was] a quiet prince. AKJV/PCE​

Mic 2:10 Arise ye, and depart; for this [is] not [your] rest: because it is polluted, it shall destroy [you], even with a sore destruction. AKJV/PCE​

Zech 9:1 The burden of the word of the LORD in the land of Hadrach, and Damascus [shall be] the rest thereof: when the eyes of man, as of all the tribes of Israel, [shall be] toward the LORD. AKJV/PCE​

Always translated as REST or PEACEFUL, etc. etc.

But only IP knows that this is wrong in Psalm 23.

This a perfect illustration of just how self-centered and stupid you are.

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Instead it is stupid to avoid discussions you can't win about Thess, and move them back to another you've lost. It is stupid to avoid the actual context of shepherds in desert areas. All over the world except in RD's rightly divided mind, they move their animals past desert water that is sitting still because it is bound to be trouble. There are always some exceptions of course.

The verse was explained in the series THAT THE WORLD MAY KNOW by Van Der Vey, as I recall, but I've heard it many other times. Dictionaries won't tell you that.

Be sure to write the well-known mission motivational speaker and tell him how selfcentered and arrogant he is, and post a copy here, other wise what is your word worth?