Creation vs. Evolution II

Jose Fly · Oct 31, 2016

6days said:
Common ancestry beliefs have never been a positive force in developing vaccines and antibiotics.*
Louis Pasteur was one of the early scientists instrumental in *doing microbiolgy research and vaccine development. His science was founded in the Biblical creator...he rejected common ancestry beliefs. Science today still operates using the scientific method like Pasteur did. Common ancestry beliefs have a history of hindering science...never helping

You don't seem to be aware, but endlessly repeating lies doesn't make them come true.

Jose Fly · Oct 31, 2016

Squeaky said:
Science is a delusion in life.

Oh, the hypocrisy of a person using a computer and the internet to say that...

6days · Oct 31, 2016

KingdomRose said:
This is confusing, trying to tell who says what. What i can say at this point is that the "days" in Genesis are NOT 24-hour days

Genesis days absolutely are 24 hour days. We know that from Hebrew context.
Test for you.
Gen. 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4*This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
The word 'day' is used twice there. Does the word have the same meaning in both verses? How do you determine the meaning?

patrick jane · Oct 31, 2016

6days said:
Genesis days absolutely are 24 hour days. We know that from Hebrew context.
Test for you.
Gen. 2:3Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating*that he had done.
4*This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created,*when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
The word 'day' is used twice there. Does the word have the same meaning in both verses? How do you determine the meaning?

You only used the word day once in those verses

6days · Nov 1, 2016

patrick jane said:
You only used the word day once in those verses

Thanks...I corrected it.

gcthomas · Nov 1, 2016

6days said:
Common ancestry beliefs have never been a positive force in developing vaccines and antibiotics.*
Louis Pasteur was one of the early scientists instrumental in *doing microbiolgy research and vaccine development. His science was founded in the Biblical creator...he rejected common ancestry beliefs. Science today still operates using the scientific method like Pasteur did. Common ancestry beliefs have a history of hindering science...never helping

Is this the freethinker Louis Pasteur that said "The idea of God is a form of the idea of the Infinite whether it is called Brahma, Allah, Jehova, or Jesus." and "I know that the word free thinker is written somewhere within our walls as a challenge and an affront. Do you know what most of the free thinkers want? Some want the freedom not to think at all and to be fettered by ignorance; others want the freedom to think badly; and others still, the freedom to be dominated by what is suggested to them by instinct and to despise all authority and all tradition. Freedom of thought in the Cartesian sense, freedom to work hard, freedom to pursue research, the right to arrive at such truth as is accessible to evidence and to conform one's conduct to these exigencies--oh! let us vow a cult to this freedom; for this is what has created modern society in its highest and most fruitful aspects."

Doesn't sound like the words of a comitted creationist.

He also said "religion has no more place in science than science has in religion." and "In each one of us there are two men, the scientist and the man of faith or of doubt. These two spheres are separate, and woe to those who want to make them encroach upon one another in the present state of our knowledge!"

Like all your other alleged 'creationist' scientists, this one was not. He was an atheist in when it cam to his philosophy and science.

MichaelCadry · Nov 1, 2016

redfern said:
You keep saying that empirical science supports the Biblical creation model, but you are impotent at showing that is true. If you disagree, then:

1) What empirical science can you present that shows that snakes have ever had the anatomy required for vocal speech?

2) What empirical science can you present that shows that a rib from a human male, deprived of its blood supply, severed from its neural connections to the spinal column and brain, etc. etc., will turn into an adult female?

3) What empirical science can you present that shows that sticks can turn into snakes?

Dear redfern,

We are believers in the God you should be worshiping. He is THE Great Chemist and Biologist, just for starters. God can take the minerals and molecules, including their atoms and protons, from a rock and make a complete man out of such. Thus, as He created man from the dust of the ground. If you must know, the serpent that talked to Eve did so telepathically, and also the donkey, likewise. The serpent wasn't a snake until God took his legs away and sentenced him to squirming on the ground and licking up the dust for its whole life. We know Who our God is and how He can part the Red Sea, for the Hebrews to get across and for the Egyptians to be suffocated by drowning. We know it is He who made every creature and plant and rock by His Incredibly Imaginative Mind and Being. We know that man did not evolve on his own, but was created by God adjusting certain genomes, DNA, atoms, neutrons to make up ALL of Creation. Just because some things look like other things doesn't mean they evolved into them. God created the Earth and Heaven, and creatures, birds and beasts alike, and the water/sea, and the creeping things. They are not all evolved from each other, but instead, have a different chemistry within them, just as He would have it. I've said more than you deserve to hear, it seems, so I'll end it here for now.

You Are An Atheist. I Had No Idea,

Michael

marhig · Nov 1, 2016

MichaelCadry said:
I'm not saying that God is a liar. He created the Earth in the same six days that He created man. He created the 'Host of Heaven' during those six days. That means the stars and planets, etc. Our galaxy is called the Milky Way. See Gen. 1:19KJV. On the Fourth Day. That is when He created the stars. He created everything just as He said. He made the young Earth appear older to confound men like you. You can't see how He could create things that are aged, but new. Man was created aged, even though it was a young Earth. The birds and animals were created aged, not in the egg. He created trees that bore fruit and He created them without waiting for them to start from scratch as a sapling. You just can't see what was going on, because you limit what God can do.

Hiya, I haven't read through all this thread, so I don't know what's been said.

But time to God isn't the same as time to us. So a day in God's eyes isn't like a 24 hour day. And a day is also being in the light. Even Gods days are different, because they start in the evening, why? Because Gods day would never end in darkness, it always ends in light, coming from darkness into light, from the evening to the morning.

Also it shows that Gods time isn't like our time in 2 Peter 3

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Time to God isn't like our time. God is timeless and endless.

MichaelCadry · Nov 1, 2016

Angel4Truth said:
I quoted the government on it. Look back in the thread and read - they maintain there is no way to seperate a "good" scientific darwin, from a "bad" social one, and admit the issues with his racism. However his racism, was part of his evolutionary theory which hitler tried to finish following out, so the science is mixed with the social thought by saying some are lower due to evolution.

Sadly the TOE put forth by darwin included whites on top and others at the bottom of that food chain and hitler wanted to hurry it up. Like it or not, its the truth.

Dear redfern?

I'm here to help out Angel, not that I know she needs it, but just because I have something important to dismiss. There is NO Nature or Mother Nature, or Father Time. Those are just made up by 'Science.' God is the Absolute 'Naturist.' Do you think that there is ANY Tornadoes or Hurricanes that are not Completely Controlled by God and His Son, and His angels? Do you think there is a thunderstorm that doesn't show the majesty of God? Did you know that lightning is more than 5 times HOTTER than the Sun?? You've wasted your life with your stupid Science. Science was created by Satan, alluding to the Manifestations of Our God doing His business on Earth. You'll just never understand, because I really don't think that God wants you to be privy to the information. In other words, He probably means for you to go to Hell. At least for a time. I mean, Hell does give up those who are in it to be given a second chance. See Rev. 20:13KJV. 'And Death and Hell gave up those who were in them, and they were judged everyone, according to their works.' Make of it what you will, boys!

Thanks for letting me butt in, Angel!!!

Michael

MichaelCadry · Nov 1, 2016

Squeaky said:
I said
Well the Holy Spirit is antiscientific also.
SCIENCE
1 Tim 6:20-21
20 O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babble and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge--
21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen.
2 Cor 10:3-5
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
Eph 5:7
7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Matt 12:39
39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
2 Tim 2:15-16
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.
II Th 2:10-11
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
John 8:51
51 "Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death."
Col 2:20-23
20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations--
21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,"
22 which all concern things which perish with the using-- according to the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
Mark 8:35
35 "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel's will save it.
Col 2:8-9
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Rom 1:17
17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."
Matt 15:8-9
8 'These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' "
Acts 19:19
19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver.
Heb 4:2
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
Rom 14:22
22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
2 Cor 1:9
9 Yes, we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves but in God who raises the dead,
Luke 16:15
15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
Rom 8:20
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;
1 Tim 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
Rom 1:20-23
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man-- and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Matt 13:24-30
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;
25 "but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.
26 "But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.
27 "So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 "He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
29 "But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
30 'Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'"
Matt 23:24
24 "Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
(NKJ)

xxxx Science is a delusion in life. God said if they dont believe His Word He would send strong delusions. So that they would believe the lie. Then canst them into hell for it. They have always been close to finding the truth, but havent found it. They will always be close but will never find it.

II Th 2:9-12
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(NKJ)

Dear Squeaky,

You scared me to death when you brought up the Holy Ghost/Spirit, but as I kept reading, I was beaming in my smile. Looks like you're a little treasure chest of Spiritual information!! I feared so badly that you were going to accidentally blaspheme the Holy Ghost, which I could hardly bear. I was wrong and I can't thank you enough for posting here. Stick around. Once again, I thank you tremendously for talking out of your heart and head, instead of just your head and butt. Yippee!!!

May God Recompense You According To The Abundance Of Your Fruits!!

Michael

MichaelCadry · Nov 1, 2016

Jose Fly said:
Sorry, but your empty say-so does not negate the documented facts.

You need to pay better attention. And if you truly believe evolution and evolutionary theory are of no scientific consequence, I suggest you only take antibiotics and vaccines that were effective when they were first developed. After all, if understanding that populations evolve, and how they do so, is irrelevant to science, then those treatments should all be just as effective today as they were originally.

Dear Jose,

Satan caused the diseases. God gave man the cures, through them listening to Him in their dreams and while they were awake, so we wouldn't have to suffer so. There are some diseases that we still need to cure, once God tells a man what to do. From what I understand, cancer and diabetes have been cured already, but the big Pharma doesn't want to let that info out just yet, so they can keep on making billions of our dollars. Man can be silenced, if necessary. It all depends on what the media will allow, and I'm sure they get plenty to shut up. I was taking turmeric/curcumin for my cancer and it all went away. I took 4,000 mg/day. I also took 4,000 mg/day of cinnamon to absorb the extra sugar in my body, thus curbing my diabetes. It is just a matter of time before we get the truth. We go way back, Jose, so I understand you and what you are up against.

God Bless You, Anyways, Dude!!

Michael

MichaelCadry · Nov 1, 2016

redfern said:
Lots of talking, but you are dodging the mathematics. You said:

Show them, or admit you are bluffing.

Dear redfern,

6days has no reason to resort to bluffing you. He is just wiser than you. His God made him that way. He is actually extremely knowledgeable and is prepared for any defense necessary, because God guides his ways and gives him the words he needs to show you the truth.

Get Real,

Michael

Hawkins · Nov 1, 2016

Jose Fly said:
Sorry, but your empty say-so does not negate the documented facts.

You need to pay better attention. And if you truly believe evolution and evolutionary theory are of no scientific consequence, I suggest you only take antibiotics and vaccines that were effective when they were first developed. After all, if understanding that populations evolve, and how they do so, is irrelevant to science, then those treatments should all be just as effective today as they were originally.

Do you understand the predictability of science, or not?

Show us how populations evolve from a single cell to a bird or mammal, predictably.

To put it simpler to you, just show us by your calculation, under what conditions and how many generations for a single cell to evolve to a mammal, of which how many generations are required to form the heart. This is what evolution is, and it has nothing to do with biology. It remains your deception to try to equate the two.

MichaelCadry · Nov 1, 2016

KingdomRose said:
This is confusing, trying to tell who says what. What i can say at this point is that the "days" in Genesis are NOT 24-hour days.

Dear KingdomRose,

6days is saying that the word 'yom' means 'day' in the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, thus Jewish. Throughout the entire Bible, yom is used as a 24-hour day. There is no reason to think that God changed 'yom' to not mean a 24-hour day. So, God created the world and heaven, and it's inhabitants in 6 days, and rested on the 7th 24-hour day.

Does this help?

Thank You Kingdom Rose,

Michael

MichaelCadry · Nov 1, 2016

Jose Fly said:
Oh, the hypocrisy of a person using a computer and the internet to say that...

Dear Jose,

Squeaky isn't a hypocrite. God gave us the computer and put it into the minds of men to know how to do it, and how to improve it. For such a time as this, is the computer a Godsend. Instead of you having to read my book, I get to tell you parts of it on this TOL thread. That is because of a God-fearing man named Knight. I will not use his real name in case he wants to keep it secret. If it weren't for God explaining to Knight how to put together this site and keep improving it every year, we wouldn't be at this point. Oh, you will moan, but that is how this 'witness' and 'olive tree' and 'candlestick' is now able to get my message to you and everyone here. I build an army here and you will go and tell all of your loved ones what you've learned here, and you will inherit something richer than gold or money. See Rev. 11:3KJV. If I bear witness of myself, it is worthless, so instead I will let God bear witness of me instead in the absolute latter days indeed. Once I leave, you all will believe me and you will tell your loved ones. My last name 'Cadre' means "a nucleus around which a large army is built." Now you know why we have all joined this thread. God will reach those who He will here and the rest, who don't believe, shall be gathered with the tares. I sure am being blunt and I suppose by my answering all of your questions, you have no reason to post here anymore. Or do you. The choice is up to you all individually. Rise above your jealousy and listen to what I've said here.

May God Lead You On The Highway To Himself,

Michael

MichaelCadry · Nov 1, 2016

marhig said:
Hiya, I haven't read through all this thread, so I don't know what's been said.

But time to God isn't the same as time to us. So a day in God's eyes isn't like a 24 hour day. And a day is also being in the light. Even Gods days are different, because they start in the evening, why? Because Gods day would never end in darkness, it always ends in light, coming from darkness into light, from the evening to the morning.

Also it shows that Gods time isn't like our time in 2 Peter 3

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Time to God isn't like our time. God is timeless and endless.

Dear marhig,

He meant that God can fit a thousand years worth of effort in one day, like Him building the Heavens in one day, when it seems like it took eons. The same as with God creating the Earth in one day even though it seems like it took Him ten thousand years to do such a thing. A thousand years to us is as if one day to God. It doesn't mean that 2,000 years ago have just been 2 days passing to God. Do you understand?

Much Love, In Christ,

Michael

6days · Nov 1, 2016

gcThomas said:
6days said:

Louis Pasteur was one of the early scientists instrumental in doing microbiolgy research and vaccine development. His science was founded in the Biblical creator...he rejected common ancestry beliefs. Science today still operates using the scientific method like Pasteur did. Common ancestry beliefs have a history of hindering science...never helping

Click to expand...

Is this the freethinker Louis Pasteur that said "The idea of God is a form of the idea of the Infinite whether it is called Brahma, Allah, Jehova, or Jesus."

Correct... various people groups refer to a infinite being with different names. Louis believed in the Creator God of the Bible.*

gcThomas said:
*(Pasteur said) "I know that the word free thinker is written somewhere within our walls as a challenge and an affront. Do you know what most of the free thinkers want? Some want the freedom not to think at all and to be fettered by ignorance; others want the freedom to think badly; and others still, the freedom to be dominated by what is suggested to them by instinct and to despise all authority and all tradition. Freedom of thought in the Cartesian sense, freedom to work hard, freedom to pursue research, the right to arrive at such truth as is accessible to evidence and to conform one's conduct to these exigencies--oh! let us vow a cult to this freedom; for this is what has created modern society in its highest and most fruitful aspects."*
Doesn't sound like the words of a comitted creationist.

*
Sounds like a creationist to me!!

gcThomas said:
He also said "religion has no more place in science than science has in religion." ...

I agree with him. (Depending how 'religion' is defined. The Bible defines religion as helping widows and orphans). Most Biblical creationists would agree, especially when we consider Pasteur said, "The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator.”*

gcThomas said:
Like all your other alleged 'creationist' scientists, this one was not. He was an atheist in when it cam to his philosophy and science

Do you also believe the holocaust was a hoax?*

Pasteur's son in law wrote of Louis Pastwurs last days saying *"Absolute faith in God and in Eternity, and a conviction that the power for good given to us in this world will be continued beyond it, were feelings which pervaded his whole life; the virtues of the gospel had ever been present to him. Full of respect for the form of religion which had been that of his forefathers, he came simply to it and naturally for spiritual help in these last weeks of his life".*

6days · Nov 1, 2016

marhig said:
But time to God isn't the same as time to us.

So when God tells us to rest on the 7th day as He did, does that mean we can take a break for any time period we wish?

marhig · Nov 1, 2016

MichaelCadry said:
Dear marhig,

He meant that God can fit a thousand years worth of effort in one day, like Him building the Heavens in one day, when it seems like it took eons. The same as with God creating the Earth in one day even though it seems like it took Him ten thousand years to do such a thing. A thousand years to us is as if one day to God. It doesn't mean that 2,000 years ago have just been 2 days passing to God. Do you understand?

Much Love, In Christ,

Michael

Hi Michael,

Yes I agree with that, but it does also say that a day is a thousand years. To me I see it meaning that God doesn't go by a 24 hour period of time like we do. He's timeless. But saying that, I also believe that if God wanted to create the whole universe within 24 hours he could. He can do anything and I have complete faith in him.

I haven't looked properly into it, but I'm pretty sure that a day hasn't always been the 24 hour day and it has changed over time. Although time is nothing to God as he created it.

Here in the Bible are verses which say the word day but don't mean an actual 24 hour period

Zephaniah 1

The great day of the LORD*is*near,*it is near, and hasteth greatly,*even*the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. That day*is*a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.

2 Peter 3

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Also, I see genesis very differently to many others and I see it in a spiritual sense also. And I believe that everything in the Bible has a deeper meaning. I believe that the earth is much older that 6000 years, but only God knows and really it's not important to us to know. I just know that I have to get my heart right before him and keep my heart open to him for him to do his work within.

marhig · Nov 1, 2016

6days said:
So when God tells us to rest on the 7th day as He did, does that mean we can take a break for any time period we wish?

It depends which 7th day and which rest you are talking about? Firstly the Sabbath to the Jews is Saturday and to the Christians it's Sunday? And Jesus didn't rest on the Sabbath, he carried on doing Gods work.

And we also enter into Gods rest. Did we actually enter into his rest on an actual seventh day or did we enter into his rest through Christ? I believe every day is the Sabbath once we enter into God's rest. And what I mean by that is once the spirit of God has rested upon us, then we have entered into Gods rest. And the Sabbath then is when we rest from our own works and we do the works of God through Christ by the spirit.

1 Peter 4

If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy*are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

Hebrews 4

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.*There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God*did*from his.*Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Creation vs. Evolution II

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