What is "Faith alone ?"

Here are some facts and then maybe someone can show me where i'm not understanding correctly.

To me "Faith alone" , makes no sense , and this is why.

1) Faith is pistis in the Greek and is the noun.

2) The corresponding verb to that noun in the Greek is pisteuo.

3) Pisteuo is an action word something we do ,as is the definition of a verb.

4) pisteuo in the Vines is defined as "A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."

So are the "Faith alone" people saying that all we need to do is continually surrender ourselves to Christ in mind and deed ? Because that would make perfect sense to me.

Faith alone means a faith which is alone. It excludes all human works as a means of attaining justification. It does not mean that believers produce no works at all. An easy way to understand this is that faith alone excludes human works but the believer always produces spiritual fruit.

Works = Bad,

Fruit = Good.

You know love, joy, peace, patience etc.

Faither said:

Here are some facts and then maybe someone can show me where i'm not understanding correctly.

To me "Faith alone" , makes no sense , and this is why.

1) Faith is pistis in the Greek and is the noun.

2) The corresponding verb to that noun in the Greek is pisteuo.

3) Pisteuo is an action word something we do ,as is the definition of a verb.

4) pisteuo in the Vines is defined as "A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."

So are the "Faith alone" people saying that all we need to do is continually surrender ourselves to Christ in mind and deed ? Because that would make perfect sense to me.

Click to expand...

Faith alone, is found in Jesus Christ alone, through God's grace alone, as revealed in Holy Scripture alone, to the glory of God alone.

Taught in Romans 3:20-31

Saving faith is: "The perfect, imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ, completely outside the sinner, and received by the simple instrument of belief alone." John W. Robbins

Epoisses said:

Faith alone means a faith which is alone. It excludes all human works as a means of attaining justification. It does not mean that believers produce no works at all. An easy way to understand this is that faith alone excludes human works but the believer always produces spiritual fruit.

Works = Bad,

Fruit = Good.

You know love, joy, peace, patience etc.

Click to expand...

Which facts are you disagreeing with ?

Pisteuo is a verb an action word.

Pisteuo defined in the Vines is "A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."

Pisteuo in the strongs is defined as "not just to believe."

Are you saying everything "except believing" that is done by someone is their attempt at working their way into Christ without Grace?

Are you saying that as the Vines says , "that surrendering our lives to Christ" is an attempt to work our way into Christ without Grace?

Are you saying as the Vines says , "living a life inspired by a personal surrender" (which is making decisions that support the fact that that our life is not ours anymore but Gods) is an attempt to disgaurd Grace and work ourselves into Christ?

Are you saying that even though the Strongs specifically gives the disclaimer that (the act of Faith that saves) "pisteuo" IS NOT JUST TO BELIEVE , That you are correct despite of that and can say "believing" is the only way into Christ?

Nang said:

Faith alone, is found in Jesus Christ alone, through God's grace alone, as revealed in Holy Scripture alone, to the glory of God alone.

Taught in Romans 3:20-31

Saving faith is: "The perfect, imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ, completely outside the sinner, and received by the simple instrument of belief alone." John W. Robbins

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Could you address the facts i've presented? None of which are my opinion.

Faither said:

Could you address the facts i've presented? None of which are my opinion.

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Mark 9:24

"Lord I believe (in Him, noun); help me with my unbelief(gifted faith, verb).

Saving faith (Forgiveness is in the righteous Person of Christ), while holy Christian life is dependent upon the gifting of faith and repentence given only from the grace of God.

Both definitions apply.

Nang said:

Mark 9:24

"Lord I believe (in Him, noun); help me with my unbelief(gifted faith, verb).

Saving faith (Forgiveness is in the righteous Person of Christ), while holy Christian life is dependent upon the gifting of faith and repentence given only from the grace of God.

Both definitions apply.

Click to expand...

I really don't know how to reply.

"believe" is the word the translators had to use for the verb "pisteuo" , because the English language has no word for the verb form of Faith. Believe is a verb not a noun , its used as a verb in the Nt 248 times.

"Unbelief" is a completely different word . Faith or the word we should have had for the translators (faithing) in reverse is "Apisteuo." Putting an "A" in front of the Greek word pisteuo reverses the act or action in the opposite direction.

I'm not saying that there isn't a point where Gods presence and the Mind of Christ doesn't play a huge part in a deeper surrender because it does. But at "the very start" before we are in Chrsit a surrender has to be made by the ones called out by the Father. This surrender is prompted by the drawing of the Father , but has to be made willingly and has to be genuine. And thats with no Holy Spirit dwelling in us yet.

So lets see is we can get on the same page.

Were at the start of the Salvation journey , the Father is drawing or calling us . As Rom. 8:9 states , if we don't have the Spirit of Christ in us , He is not ours. If He is not ours , His Word can't be ours either.

So Here we are at the beginning being drawn by the Father , the Holy Spirit , Christ, and His Word and the promises therein are not ours yet. The only way to respond to the calling of the Father is by "pisteuo" , continually surrendering ourselves to Christ . This is the first act of "pisteuo' that responds to the relationship the Father has started.

If you disagree with this , submitt an alternative .

And you haven't addressed the facts i asked you to yet.

Nang said:

Faith alone, is found in Jesus Christ alone, through God's grace alone, as revealed in Holy Scripture alone, to the glory of God alone.

Taught in Romans 3:20-31

Saving faith is: "The perfect, imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ, completely outside the sinner, and received by the simple instrument of belief alone." John W. Robbins

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Paul is speaking about how no one has to do the purification/ceremonial works anymore. Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. See James 2:14, 17, 20, 22, and 24.

Even demons believe and do something, they shudder.

Faither said:

I really don't know how to reply.

"believe" is the word the translators had to use for the verb "pisteuo" , because the English language has no word for the verb form of Faith. Believe is a verb not a noun , its used as a verb in the Nt 248 times.

"Unbelief" is a completely different word . Faith or the word we should have had for the translators (faithing) in reverse is "Apisteuo." Putting an "A" in front of the Greek word pisteuo reverses the act or action in the opposite direction.

I'm not saying that there isn't a point where Gods presence and the Mind of Christ doesn't play a huge part in a deeper surrender because it does. But at "the very start" before we are in Chrsit a surrender has to be made by the ones called out by the Father. This surrender is prompted by the drawing of the Father , but has to be made willingly and has to be genuine. And thats with no Holy Spirit dwelling in us yet.

Click to expand...

No. There can be no activation of faith until and unless a sinner is first regenerated by the Holy Spirit. John 3:3-8

It is when a dead soul, is raised to new spiritual life by the resurrection power of God, that faith and repentance is gifted unto Justification (forgiveness).

So lets see is we can get on the same page.

Were at the start of the Salvation journey , the Father is drawing or calling us . As Rom. 8:9 states , if we don't have the Spirit of Christ in us , He is not ours. If He is not ours , His Word can't be ours either.

Click to expand...

Correct.

So Here we are at the beginning being drawn by the Father , the Holy Spirit , Christ, and His Word and the promises therein are not ours yet.

Click to expand...

When a sinner is born again from above, the Holy Spirit renews and restores the dead soul, and the Holy Spirit comes to abide within the former sinner. It is ONLY through the Holy Spirit's presence and indwelling that the heart of the sinner is changed, and new spiritual eyes and ears are provided, by which that sinner can understand the Gospel message that saves (justifies) the soul. I Corinthians 2:11-16

By this miracle, sinful man is given faith to believe in the Person of Jesus Christ and His righteousness. That sinful man is once and for all forgiven (Justified) of his sins, because of being born again from above.

The only way to respond to the calling of the Father is by "pisteuo" , continually surrendering ourselves to Christ . This is the first act of "pisteuo' that responds to the relationship the Father has started.

Click to expand...

Yes.

Sanctification (active "pisteuo") follows regeneration (gifting of life and "pistis") in Jesus Christ.


If you disagree with this , submitt an alternative .

And you haven't addressed the facts i asked you to yet.[/QUOTE]

Faither said:

Here are some facts and then maybe someone can show me where i'm not understanding correctly.

To me "Faith alone" , makes no sense , and this is why.

1) Faith is pistis in the Greek and is the noun.

2) The corresponding verb to that noun in the Greek is pisteuo.

3) Pisteuo is an action word something we do ,as is the definition of a verb.

4) pisteuo in the Vines is defined as "A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."

So are the "Faith alone" people saying that all we need to do is continually surrender ourselves to Christ in mind and deed ? Because that would make perfect sense to me.

Click to expand...

faith only

Gen 15:5 And he brought him outside and said, "Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

way 2 go said:

faith only

Gen 15:5 And he brought him outside and said, "Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

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Even Abraham's faith was tested.

Genesis 22:1 Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am." 2He said, "Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you."

James 2:21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

The English words used in translation are not exclusive to the means of salvation. English has given three words to translate one Hebrew root and one Greek root. Faith- belief- trust. Only one of these words correctly conveys what the original root meant. What it conveyed to those that first heard and then had the joyful experience of trust happening and being exercised in them for the first time.

Faith and belief are inherent in man and can be summed up as a psyching up of the mental attributes. Not unlike a positive mental attitude towards something or someone.

Trust is the spiritual endowment of the abandonment of self into the care of another.

The general revelation of the existence of the Creator that leaves all men without excuse only requires faith or belief. Salvation requires trust and this gift is not inherent in man and must be received.

Nang said:

No. There can be no activation of faith until and unless a sinner is first regenerated by the Holy Spirit. John 3:3-8

It is when a dead soul, is raised to new spiritual life by the resurrection power of God, that faith and repentance is gifted unto Justification (forgiveness).



Correct.



When a sinner is born again from above, the Holy Spirit renews and restores the dead soul, and the Holy Spirit comes to abide within the former sinner. It is ONLY through the Holy Spirit's presence and indwelling that the heart of the sinner is changed, and new spiritual eyes and ears are provided, by which that sinner can understand the Gospel message that saves (justifies) the soul. I Corinthians 2:11-16

By this miracle, sinful man is given faith to believe in the Person of Jesus Christ and His righteousness. That sinful man is once and for all forgiven (Justified) of his sins, because of being born again from above.



Yes.

Sanctification (active "pisteuo") follows regeneration (gifting of life and "pistis") in Jesus Christ.


If you disagree with this , submitt an alternative .

And you haven't addressed the facts i asked you to yet.

Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]


Ok Nang, you have put the Holy Spirit at the very start of the Salvation process. In doing so , that means that in your understanding the "parable of the sower" happens after the Holy Spirit is sealed into us. If the Holy Spirit is sealed into us at the start as you say , 3 out of the 4 temp-les of the Holy Spirit would fail. And neither of us would agree with that .

The parable of the sower has to be in the process. Where do you put it if we recieve the Holy Spirit at the very start as you understand.

way 2 go said:

faith only

Gen 15:5 And he brought him outside and said, "Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

Click to expand...

Specifically address the facts i've presented. There is no such thing in the Nt as just belief.

Truster said:

The English words used in translation are not exclusive to the means of salvation. English has given three words to translate one Hebrew root and one Greek root. Faith- belief- trust. Only one of these words correctly conveys what the original root meant. What it conveyed to those that first heard and then had the joyful experience of trust happening and being exercised in them for the first time.

Faith and belief are inherent in man and can be summed up as a psyching up of the mental attributes. Not unlike a positive mental attitude towards something or someone.

Trust is the spiritual endowment of the abandonment of self into the care of another.

The general revelation of the existence of the Creator that leaves all men without excuse only requires faith or belief. Salvation requires trust and this gift is not inherent in man and must be received.

Click to expand...

I like your post truster.

Working on a longer reply.

Faith alone means that salvation is by Christ alone.

We who are saved have ceased from our own works and have entered into his rest. We are resting in his work and in his righteousness for our salvation, Hebrews 4:10.

Faither said:

Here are some facts and then maybe someone can show me where i'm not understanding correctly.

To me "Faith alone" , makes no sense , and this is why.

1) Faith is pistis in the Greek and is the noun.

2) The corresponding verb to that noun in the Greek is pisteuo.

3) Pisteuo is an action word something we do ,as is the definition of a verb.

4) pisteuo in the Vines is defined as "A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."

So are the "Faith alone" people saying that all we need to do is continually surrender ourselves to Christ in mind and deed ? Because that would make perfect sense to me.

Click to expand...

As a metaphor:

Verb: I am singing (trusting God;depending upon him; surrendering to Him).

Noun: Is like all of my singing or body of work the substance of what I produced (faith/pistis, is the substance of the trusting, depending, surrendering).

Truster said:

The English words used in translation are not exclusive to the means of salvation. English has given three words to translate one Hebrew root and one Greek root. Faith- belief- trust. Only one of these words correctly conveys what the original root meant. What it conveyed to those that first heard and then had the joyful experience of trust happening and being exercised in them for the first time.

Faith and belief are inherent in man and can be summed up as a psyching up of the mental attributes. Not unlike a positive mental attitude towards something or someone.

Trust is the spiritual endowment of the abandonment of self into the care of another.

The general revelation of the existence of the Creator that leaves all men without excuse only requires faith or belief. Salvation requires trust and this gift is not inherent in man and must be received.

Click to expand...

Again truster , like alot of what you've said.

Let me try to find more common ground.

You said ,

"Faith and belief are inherent in man and can be summed up as a psyching up of the mental attributes."

I say ,

Your absolutely right , and , what you've stated is a basic understanding of what "Faith" (or faithing) is in the human life. We fulfill thousands of acts of Faith or faithing every day . Every time we fulfill an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidense , thats an act of Faith or faithing.

We perform a dozen acts of faith just getting out of bed in the morning. But none of those things are NT saving Faith or faithing (pisteuo). Only a specific act , based upon a specific belief , sustained by a specific confidense will produce a relationship with Christ.

What is the complete Nt understanding of how we faithe (pisteuo) into Christ?

The act ? It's right there in the Vines Greek dictionary , "A personal surrender to Him". What are we surrendering? Our lives.

The act? , based upon what belief ? Based upon the belief God will accept , care fore , maintain , and complete , the surrendered life. The act , based upon a belief is on "JESUS" not His Word , "HIm"!

What is The sustained confidense ? Again , it's right there in the Vines Greek dictionary for the word pisteuo used 248 times in the NT. First , it states ,"A personal surrender to Him " , and then there is a second part of "pisteuo" after the surrender , and it says , " And a life inspired by such surrender ."

In other words , the specific sustained confidense is while were making all the daily decisions , we are making them filtered through the fact that our life is not our own anymore but His. These decisions not only fulfill the "trust" you spoke of , but shows God that our surrender is genuine , not perfect , but genuine.

You mentioned the Hebrew , which is one of the worst languages on the planet. They had two pictorial words for Faith or faithing.

One , "Running to the shelter of o mother birds wings." Emphasis on the the act of continual running to a specific gtoal.

Two , "The leaning on a staff". Emphasis on the continual leaning on a staff (Christ) with "all" your weight behind it.

Both of these examples support "pisteuo" and the definitions that are available in the Vines Greek dictionary . The Greek being the most precise a best language on the planet.

Just scratching the surface here truster. I get excited when i come across someone who sees Christ in similar ways as myself. Hope to here more from you on what i presented.

Jamie Gigliotti said:

As a metaphor:

Verb: I am singing (trusting God;depending upon him; surrendering to Him).

Noun: Is like all of my singing or body of work the substance of what I produced (faith/pistis, is the substance of the trusting, depending, surrendering).

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Don't disagree with you Jamie.

Like i said to truster , Faith as the noun is at best barely understood. But Faithing the verb , their is no understanding of it. It's all because the English language had no words for the translators to use to translate the Greek verb form of the noun Pistis (Faith). That word in the Greek is pisteuo. We should have had the words faithe , faither , and faithing , for those translators. But those words are not in the English. So they used the words believe , believer , and believing. And really by no fault of their own , people built their relationships with Christ on those mistranslated words. I can show over a dozen concrete facts that support this mistranslation , but, those words are in the texts and are not easily forsaken. The reason , every thing people know is riding on those words believe , believer , and believing ,

Robert Pate said:

Faith alone means that salvation is by Christ alone.

We who are saved have ceased from our own works and have entered into his rest. We are resting in his work and in his righteousness for our salvation, Hebrews 4:10.

Click to expand...

Would love to see your understanding of how we become in Christ in detail.