Because the Bible tells God chooses, God elects and God predestines.
The Bible shows us God's ordination with Job, Balaam and in Romans 1.
That's how you know. You read the Bible and observe what it says.
What the Bible never says is..."free-will."
Free will is simply....
- Thread starter Truster
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The Bible shows us God's ordination with Job, Balaam and in Romans 1.
That's how you know. You read the Bible and observe what it says.
What the Bible never says is..."free-will."
popsthebuilder
New member
What does He choose?
What (or who) does He elect?
What does God predestine?
So is God the author of confusion?
You are so wrong on so many levels I won't even begin. Why don't you start your own thread and spread your lies there?
Has God made you alive in Christ?
I already answered this. Second, choice is not free-will. There is a difference that I have explained already.
The answer is self explanatory in the statement you just made.
Read Romans 1.
No. You just imagine the Bible says free-will. You fight at the bit of God's Sovereign control over you.
Whatever He wills and whomever He wills. God is under no obligation to us at all.
No. You are confused because you have accepted a man-made philosophy and thus you fight at the bit with God's Sovereign control over your life.
LOL, deep stuff.
This is the thread that states free-will is wrong. That's why I posted here.
So far exactly zero people have addressed Ephesians 1 and 2 as well as Romans 3, 8 and 9. Not to mention the other myriad of passages all stating God's choice, God's election and God's predestination.
Free-will...free-will is a man-made philosophy. No more...and no less.
What does the Bible say though? I know what you say, but what does the Bible say, perhaps you could provide some scripture verses that use those three words?
So was God the author of my confusion?
Check.
You're confused. God isn't.
Here are the references that fit with predestination and being chosen. There are more arguments based upon various passages, but hopefully this suffices as a start for you.
Predestined:
Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Romans 8:30
And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Ephesians 1: 3-6
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
Ephesians 1:11-12
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.
Chosen
Old Testament
Genesis 18:19
19 For I have chosen him, that he may command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing righteousness and justice, so that the LORD may bring to Abraham what he has promised him.”
Deuteronomy 7:6 & 14:2
“For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.
1 Samuel 10:24
And Samuel said to all the people, “Do you see him whom the Lord has chosen? There is none like him among all the people.” And all the people shouted, “Long live the king!” (Referring to God’s choice of David.)
Psalm 33:12
Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people whom he has chosen as his heritage!
Psalm 105:6
O offspring of Abraham, his servant, children of Jacob, his chosen ones!
Psalm 105:26
He sent Moses, his servant, and Aaron, whom he had chosen.
Psalm 105:43
So he brought his people out with joy, his chosen ones with singing.
Psalm 106:23
Therefore he said he would destroy them— had not Moses, his chosen one, stood in the breach before him, to turn away his wrath from destroying them.
Isaiah 41:8-9
But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, “You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off.”
Isaiah 42:1
Behold my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights; I have put my Spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the nations.
Isaiah 43:10
“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.
Isaiah 44:2
Thus says the Lord who made you, who formed you from the womb and will help you: Fear not, O Jacob my servant, Jeshurun whom I have chosen.
Isaiah 65:9
I will bring forth offspring from Jacob, and from Judah possessors of my mountains; my chosen shall possess it, and my servants shall dwell there.
Haggai 2:23
On that day, declares the Lord of hosts, I will take you, O Zerubbabel my servant, the son of Shealtiel, declares the Lord, and make you like a signet ring, for I have chosen you, declares the Lord of hosts.”
Zechariah 3:2
And the Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, O Satan! The Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is not this a brand plucked from the fire?”
New Testament
Matthew 22:13-14
Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”
John 13:18
I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But the Scripture will be fulfilled, ‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.’
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.
Acts 10:39-41
And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, 40 but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear, 41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
Romans 1:1
This letter is from Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, chosen by God to be an apostle and sent out to preach his Good News.
Romans 11:5
So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.
1 Corinthians 1:1-2
This letter is from Paul, chosen by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and from our brother Sosthenes. 2 I am writing to God’s church in Corinth, to you who have been called by God to be his own holy people. He made you holy by means of Christ Jesus, just as he did for all people everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours.
2 Corinthians 1:1
This letter is from Paul, chosen by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and from our brother Timothy.
Ephesians 1:1
This letter is from Paul, chosen by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus. I am writing to God’s holy people in Ephesus, who are faithful followers of Christ Jesus.
Philippians 1:1
This letter is from Paul and Timothy, slaves of Christ Jesus. I am writing to all of God’s holy people in Philippi who belong to Christ Jesus, including the elders and deacons. (Holy means “set-apart”)
Colossians 1:1-2
This letter is from Paul, chosen by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and from our brother Timothy. 2 We are writing to God’s holy people in the city of Colosse, who are faithful brothers and sisters in Christ.
Colossians 3:12-13
Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, 13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
1 Thessalonians 1:1
This letter is from Paul, Silas, and Timothy. We are writing to the church in Thessalonica, to you who belong to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 1:4-5
For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction.
1 Timothy 1:1
This letter is from Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus, appointed by the command of God our Savior and Christ Jesus, who gives us hope.
2 Timothy 1:1
This letter is from Paul, chosen by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus. I have been sent out to tell others about the life he has promised through faith in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:1-2
This letter is from Paul, a slave of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ. I have been sent to proclaim faith to those God has chosen and to teach them to know the truth that shows them how to live godly lives. 2 This truth gives them confidence that they have eternal life, which God—who does not lie—promised them before the world began.
James 2:5
Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?
1 Peter 1:1-2
This letter is from Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ. I am writing to God’s chosen people who are living as foreigners in the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. 2 God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:1-2
This letter is from Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ. I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have. This faith was given to you because of the justice and fairness of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior. 2 May God give you more and more grace and peace as you grow in your knowledge of God and Jesus our Lord.
1 Peter 2:4-5
As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
Jude 1:1
This letter is from Jude, a slave of Jesus Christ and a brother of James. I am writing to all who have been called by God the Father, who loves you and keeps you safe in the care of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 17:14
They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”
Romans 9:15-26
For God said to Moses,
“I will show mercy to anyone I choose,
and I will show compassion to anyone I choose.”
16 So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it.
17 For the Scriptures say that God told Pharaoh, “I have appointed you for the very purpose of displaying my power in you and to spread my fame throughout the earth.” 18 So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen.
19 Well then, you might say, “Why does God blame people for not responding? Haven’t they simply done what he makes them do?”
20 No, don’t say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to argue with God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 When a potter makes jars out of clay, doesn’t he have a right to use the same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw garbage into? 22 In the same way, even though God has the right to show his anger and his power, he is very patient with those on whom his anger falls, who are destined for destruction. 23 He does this to make the riches of his glory shine even brighter on those to whom he shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory. 24 And we are among those whom he selected, both from the Jews and from the Gentiles.
25 Concerning the Gentiles, God says in the prophecy of Hosea,
“Those who were not my people,
I will now call my people.
And I will love those
whom I did not love before.”
26 And,
“Then, at the place where they were told,
‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called
‘children of the living God.’”
Jesus words:
John 6:36-40
35 Jesus replied, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never be hungry again. Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But you haven’t believed in me even though you have seen me. 37 However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them. 38 For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will.39 And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day. 40 For it is my Father’s will that all who see his Son and believe in him should have eternal life. I will raise them up at the last day.” (Notice that God is the initiator.)
There is more, but hopefully this should suffice.
popsthebuilder
New member
Not at all. I long for the day when my choosing sin is gone from me and it's memory too.
I showed in plain English that it says free will. Do you need me to reference interlinears?
I'm glad you have made a distinction between choice and free will. At least you accept that we have a choice and that GOD is sovereign.
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Election and predestination
Ephesians 1:4-5 ESV
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
John 15:16 ESV
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
Romans 8:28-30 ESV
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
2 John
[ Greeting ] The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all who know the truth, because of the truth that abides in us and will be with us forever: Grace, mercy, and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ the Father's Son, in truth and love. ...
Matthew 24:22
And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:31
And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13:20
And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
Mark 13:22
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.
Mark 13:27
And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.
Luke 18:7
And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them?
Romans 8:33
Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
Romans 9:11
though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—
Romans 11:7
What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
Romans 11:28
As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
1 Timothy 5:21
In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without prejudging, doing nothing from partiality.
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Titus 1:1
[ Greeting ] Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness,
1 Peter 1:1
[ Greeting ] Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Peter 1:3
[ Confirm Your Calling and Election ] His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,
2 Peter 1:10
Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.
2 John 1:1
[ Greeting ] The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all who know the truth,
2 John 1:13
The children of your elect sister greet you.
Ephesians 1:4-5 ESV
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
John 15:16 ESV
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
Romans 8:28-30 ESV
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
2 John
[ Greeting ] The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all who know the truth, because of the truth that abides in us and will be with us forever: Grace, mercy, and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ the Father's Son, in truth and love. ...
Matthew 24:22
And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:31
And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13:20
And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
Mark 13:22
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.
Mark 13:27
And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.
Luke 18:7
And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them?
Romans 8:33
Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
Romans 9:11
though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—
Romans 11:7
What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
Romans 11:28
As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
1 Timothy 5:21
In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without prejudging, doing nothing from partiality.
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Titus 1:1
[ Greeting ] Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness,
1 Peter 1:1
[ Greeting ] Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Peter 1:3
[ Confirm Your Calling and Election ] His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,
2 Peter 1:10
Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.
2 John 1:1
[ Greeting ] The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all who know the truth,
2 John 1:13
The children of your elect sister greet you.
You added free-will to all your verses. The use of "free-will" offerings in the OT made me chuckle.
popsthebuilder
New member
I added nothing whatsoever.
The first two verses I offered were from the nt Weymouth edition. The rest I posted are kjv ot.
I didn't post the other dozen readily available because anyone with any reading ability whatsoever; and a copy of the Bible can see that I was being truthful. I also didn't post the remaining verses because I didn't want to produce what is called a wall of text....which I am known to do when I really get into reading and confirming my point.
You really think I added the words free and will to scripture. Have you ever known me to literally add to scripture? Why would I? Any bafoon could show I was being disingenuous, much like you seem to be actively doing.
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You know that free-will isn't found. In each post you added it after the verse.
I notice that you are silent on the vast number of verses where chosen, elect and predestined are actually in the verse.
popsthebuilder
New member
Go back to my post and look up the verses for yourself.
Why would I speak against the will of GOD or destiny? Just because you may not get what I am saying doesn't mean I am against the doctrine of predestination. I actually believe very much if not all of tulip and much of the associated calvinistic doctrine. We differ in that I do not believe that GOD is evil in nature so the elect aren't the only saved ultimately, and GOD doesn't damn HIS creation for doing what he knowingly designed and forces them to do outside of their own will. It is very apparent from scripture that we exhibit freedom of choice yet GOD has power over all existence too ultimately.
I really can't believe you axxusee of adding to sacred texts and are too obtuse to even check to see if you are mistaken before wrongfully and repeatedly accusing me.
Why do you think GOD made you make such a big mistake and look like such an arrogant fool?
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Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
I am Romans 10:9 KJV.
You tell me.
You blame God. You accept Islam. You attempt to add free-will to the Bible when it isn't there. You deny that Jesus is God.
Pops...you speak against God at nearly every turn while you attempt to lift up your self.