ECT The New Testament Strands on Transformation By Christ And the Imputing of Righteousne

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northwye

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The New Testament Strands on Transformation By Christ And the Imputing of Righteousness

Follow the New Testament strand on transformation in Christ, that is, with Christ in the individual, from John 3: 1-7 - ye must be born again - to Romans 12: 2 - be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind - to Galatians 4: 19 - until Christ be formed in you - then to Philippians 2: 5 - let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus - and to II Corinthians 5: 17 - if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away - then you can see that Tyndale was right. These scriptures by Paul help to define what Christ means in John 3: 1-7 by being born again of the Spirit.

There is also a strand in the New Testament saying that righteousness before God is imputed to those who believe God and have faith in him. Roman 4: 9-11 says that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness when he was uncircumcised and Paul says "that he (Abraham) might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised: that righteousness might be imputed unto them also."

Reckoned and imputed in Romans 4: 8 and in Romans 4: 11 are from the same Greek word, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 3049, logizomai, to estimate, conclude, count, esteem, impute, lay, number, lay, reckon..."

Galatians 3: 6-9,14 tells us as Truth that "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham........That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

Romans 4: 19-22 says this of Abraham: "And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: 20. He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21. And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness."

Romans 4: 23-25 goes on to say that "Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25. Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification."

The doctrine of imputed righteousness because of faith stands as absolute Truth alongside the doctrine that we must be born again, transformed, to become a new creation in Christ in order to enter into the kingdom of God, which is salvation.

We have to understand how both might operate, and not to build man made theologies which emphasize imputed righteousness above transformation by Christ in us.. And it tends to be that the remnant are those who have a love of the truth that they might be saved (II Thessalonians 2: 10-12), who want to uphold the doctrine saying we must be born again, transformed, to be saved, along with imputed righteousness.

Some in the ekklesia do not want to acknowledge that the elect is a remnant; they want the elect to be the multitude, who tend to remain in the condition of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14.

Since II Thessalonians 2: 10-12 says love of the truth is necessary for salvation, the implication there is that love of the truth depends upon a foundation of faith, which is a strong belief that the word of God is absolute truth and cannot be diminished or compromised. Faith in this sense is one outcome of transformation, or being born again. And that kind of faith is imputed by the Lord for righteousness, which we, in the flesh, cannot fully achieve on our own.
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
northwye said:
The New Testament Strands on Transformation By Christ And the Imputing of Righteousness

Follow the New Testament strand on transformation in Christ, that is, with Christ in the individual, from John 3: 1-7 - ye must be born again - to Romans 12: 2 - be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind - to Galatians 4: 19 - until Christ be formed in you - then to Philippians 2: 5 - let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus - and to II Corinthians 5: 17 - if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away - then you can see that Tyndale was right. These scriptures by Paul help to define what Christ means in John 3: 1-7 by being born again of the Spirit.

There is also a strand in the New Testament saying that righteousness before God is imputed to those who believe God and have faith in him. Roman 4: 9-11 says that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness when he was uncircumcised and Paul says "that he (Abraham) might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised: that righteousness might be imputed unto them also."

Reckoned and imputed in Romans 4: 8 and in Romans 4: 11 are from the same Greek word, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 3049, logizomai, to estimate, conclude, count, esteem, impute, lay, number, lay, reckon..."

Galatians 3: 6-9,14 tells us as Truth that "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham........That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

Romans 4: 19-22 says this of Abraham: "And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: 20. He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21. And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness."

Romans 4: 23-25 goes on to say that "Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25. Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification."

The doctrine of imputed righteousness because of faith stands as absolute Truth alongside the doctrine that we must be born again, transformed, to become a new creation in Christ in order to enter into the kingdom of God, which is salvation.

We have to understand how both might operate, and not to build man made theologies which emphasize imputed righteousness above transformation by Christ in us.. And it tends to be that the remnant are those who have a love of the truth that they might be saved (II Thessalonians 2: 10-12), who want to uphold the doctrine saying we must be born again, transformed, to be saved, along with imputed righteousness.

Some in the ekklesia do not want to acknowledge that the elect is a remnant; they want the elect to be the multitude, who tend to remain in the condition of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14.

Since II Thessalonians 2: 10-12 says love of the truth is necessary for salvation, the implication there is that love of the truth depends upon a foundation of faith, which is a strong belief that the word of God is absolute truth and cannot be diminished or compromised. Faith in this sense is one outcome of transformation, or being born again. And that kind of faith is imputed by the Lord for righteousness, which we, in the flesh, cannot fully achieve on our own.
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I'd say that we cannot achieve it, in the flesh, at all!

We are sanctified by the same means by which were saved - faith. As you began, so walk. How did we begin? By faith. How then shall we walk? By faith! We are righteous by virtue of Christ's penal substitutionary death. That is, Christ died the death we deserve and that He did not. We have been crucified in Him, by faith. The Law, therefore, has nothing more to say to us and we are thus free from the Law of sin and death. Also, just we died in Him, we resurrected in Him and now live in Him and He in us. It is no longer I who live but Christ lives His life through me by faith. This faith is how the Christian finds victory in this life. Not by trying to be good or believing more fervently or praying harder but by acknowledging his place in Christ. That place being perfect, unblemished, untarnishable righteousness. The more real this biblical fact becomes in the mind of the believer the more Christ's life is lived out through him. It simply happens naturally. There is no more effort in producing righteousness in the life of a believer than there is for the grape vine to produce grapes. The vine is what it is and grapes are the result. Just so we are the branches and Christ is the Vine. All there is for us to do is to remain in the Vine and the result will be righteous behavior.

Now, as Paul said, so long as we are in this flesh, we will never attain fully to that which we aspire. For the flesh resides within us and is at war with our minds. As a result, we find ourselves doing that which we wish not to do and fail to do that which we desire to perform. This is our condition in the flesh because our flesh has not yet been redeemed but our duty is to remain focused not on our condition but on our position in Christ.

Thus...

"To ‘hope to be better’ [hence acceptable] is to fail to see yourself in Christ only.

"To be disappointed with yourself, is to have believed in yourself.

"To be discouraged is unbelief,—as to God’s purpose and plan of blessing for you.

"To be proud, is to be blind! For we have no standing before God, in ourselves.

"The lack of Divine blessing, therefore, comes from unbelief, and not from failure of devotion…

"To preach devotion first, and blessing second, is to reverse God’s order, and preach law, not grace. The Law made man’s blessing depend on devotion; Grace confers undeserved, unconditional blessing: our devotion may follow, but does not always do so,—in proper measure." - Miles J. Stanford "Principles of Spiritual Growth" Chapter 3​

Resting in Him,
Clete
 
N

northwye

New member
The contemporary ekklesia opposes transformation in Christ as seen in John 3: 1-7, Romans 12: 2, Galatians 4: 19, Philippians 2: 5 Colossians 1: 27,and II Corinthians 5: 17, and love of the Truth in II Thessalonians 2: 10-12 as conditions for salvation. Why is this?
 
Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
northwye said:
The contemporary ekklesia opposes transformation in Christ as seen in John 3: 1-7, Romans 12: 2, Galatians 4: 19, Philippians 2: 5 Colossians 1: 27,and II Corinthians 5: 17, and love of the Truth in II Thessalonians 2: 10-12 as conditions for salvation. Why is this?
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What do you mean by transformation?
 
steko

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Clete said:
I'd say that we cannot achieve it, in the flesh, at all!

We are sanctified by the same means by which were saved - faith. As you began, so walk. How did we begin? By faith. How then shall we walk? By faith! We are righteous by virtue of Christ's penal substitutionary death. That is, Christ died the death we deserve and that He did not. We have been crucified in Him, by faith. The Law, therefore, has nothing more to say to us and we are thus free from the Law of sin and death. Also, just we died in Him, we resurrected in Him and now live in Him and He in us. It is no longer I who live but Christ lives His life through me by faith. This faith is how the Christian finds victory in this life. Not by trying to be good or believing more fervently or praying harder but by acknowledging his place in Christ. That place being perfect, unblemished, untarnishable righteousness. The more real this biblical fact becomes in the mind of the believer the more Christ's life is lived out through him. It simply happens naturally. There is no more effort in producing righteousness in the life of a believer than there is for the grape vine to produce grapes. The vine is what it is and grapes are the result. Just so we are the branches and Christ is the Vine. All there is for us to do is to remain in the Vine and the result will be righteous behavior.

Now, as Paul said, so long as we are in this flesh, we will never attain fully to that which we aspire. For the flesh resides within us and is at war with our minds. As a result, we find ourselves doing that which we wish not to do and fail to do that which we desire to perform. This is our condition in the flesh because our flesh has not yet been redeemed but our duty is to remain focused not on our condition but on our position in Christ.

Thus...

"To ‘hope to be better’ [hence acceptable] is to fail to see yourself in Christ only.

"To be disappointed with yourself, is to have believed in yourself.

"To be discouraged is unbelief,—as to God’s purpose and plan of blessing for you.

"To be proud, is to be blind! For we have no standing before God, in ourselves.

"The lack of Divine blessing, therefore, comes from unbelief, and not from failure of devotion…

"To preach devotion first, and blessing second, is to reverse God’s order, and preach law, not grace. The Law made man’s blessing depend on devotion; Grace confers undeserved, unconditional blessing: our devotion may follow, but does not always do so,—in proper measure." - Miles J. Stanford "Principles of Spiritual Growth" Chapter 3​

Resting in Him,
Clete
Click to expand...

:thumb:
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Justification and transformation seem to be linked as cause and effect. Motivation and effect might be better. But there does have to be the fruit dimension that Steko said. It grows without trying, there is no help for it.

This is found in the Gal 5:23 'About (kata) these things there's no law...' That is, I can't imagine Paul saying 'Against these things...' So it's 'About' or 'Concerning' these things, you don't make laws; instead, they just grow as fruit of thankfulness or love or care for others because God cared for us and justified us.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
btw, justification and transformation do not deal with the same aspect of sin. One is about debt or 'criminal record.' The other is about stain or sickness now. This is captured in one traditional hymn, "Rock of Ages". "Be of sin a double cure / save me from its guilt and power."
 
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northwye

New member
Remember that the ekklesia - the multitude - in apostasy wants an easy salvation. So church theology would put its spin on the scriptures to make any means to salvation easy. Transformation in Christ and through his mind in you would not be too easy, so that is to be avoided.

John 3: 3 says "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." And John 3: 5 says "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:" Philippians 2: 5

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." This does not sound at all like something that is of the flesh, but something spiritual beyond the understanding of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14.

"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:" Ephesians 2: 4-6

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." II Corinthians 5: 17 He is not talking about a small change.

John 17: 17 says "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." The word of Christ is means by which we can be transformed spiritually, or transformed from a physical being to a spiritual creature.

And "Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
13. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
14. For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Hebrews 13: 12-14

His suffering and death on the Cross is the means by which we are changed.

Interestingly, II Samuel 3: 10 uses translate in saying "To translate the kingdom from the house of Saul, and to set up the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beer-sheba."

Translate is usually though to mean to translate from one language to another. But see https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/translate

The common definition of translate here is said to mean "Express the sense of (words or text) in another language." But - also translate can mean "Convert something or be converted into (another form or medium)" And translate can mean "Move from one place or condition to another."

Look at Colossians 1: 12-13 - "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13. Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:"

And Hebrews 11: 5 says "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." Translated here has about the same meaning as transformed or transformation.

Romans 12: 2 says "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

The key word in Romans 12: 2, translated as transformed is μεταμορφουσθ,from μεταμορφόω, metamorphous, or a metamorphosis, a large change, as when a larva becomes a butterfly. So being born again means a large change, so that a person in the spiritual state of the natural man is translated into a spiritual being.

μετεμορφωθη is used in Matthew 17: 2, where it is translated as transfigured, radically changed. "And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light."
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
There are a lot of things about Paul that were said for those steeped in 1st century Judaism. Gal 2:20 for example. It is not a good verse for personal transformation in general; it has to be about basing ones' self on Christ in a setting of Judaism.
 
N

northwye

New member
"There are a lot of things about Paul that were said for those steeped in 1st century Judaism. Gal 2:20 for example. It is not a good verse for personal transformation in general; it has to be about basing ones' self on Christ in a setting of Judaism."

"For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Galatians 2: 20

Paul is saying he is dead to the law so that he can live unto God and have Christ in him. He is not saying one thing for the Jews and something else to the Gentiles.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
For sure, that's why I said Judaism, which the Judaizers were imposing on many non-Jews (4:8+, 5:7 is a parody on circ). By basing solidly on the Gospel, we don't need what it offers; 6:14.

by the way, 'I live by the faith of (not in) the Son of God' is correct; it is possessive (Christ's performance, doing in the Gospel). It looks wrong but it is just another color that shows the glory of what Christ accomplished and its improvement upon the law.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
For sure, that's why I said Judaism, which the Judaizers were imposing on many non-Jews (4:8+, 5:7 is a parody on circ). By basing solidly on the Gospel, we don't need what it offers; 6:14.

by the way, 'I live by the faith of (not in) the Son of God' is correct; it is possessive (Christ's performance, doing in the Gospel). It looks wrong but it is just another color that shows the glory of what Christ accomplished and its improvement upon the law.
 
D

Danoh

New member
northwye said:
"There are a lot of things about Paul that were said for those steeped in 1st century Judaism. Gal 2:20 for example. It is not a good verse for personal transformation in general; it has to be about basing ones' self on Christ in a setting of Judaism."

"For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." Galatians 2: 20

Paul is saying he is dead to the law so that he can live unto God and have Christ in him. He is not saying one thing for the Jews and something else to the Gentiles.
Click to expand...

Nope, he is talking about...

why the Law for righteousness had not been able to result in said righteousness, but also...

...was now no longer God's standard of acceptance with Him, and...

what now was, and...

how that operates.

He then proceeds to go into each of those throughout Galatians.

And no, Paul is not saying there, this side of Grace, that there is one standard of righteousness for the Jew, and a different one for the Gentile.

This here...

Galatians 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Is this here, from that same chapter...

2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

He was basically reminding Peter of Peter's own words here...

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Verse 11, in Acts 15 there, is a Principle, Peter had acknowledged he and his believed in.

As in the Principle "the just shall live by faith."

In reminding Peter and others there, that they had gone back on that basic operating principle, he goes into those aspects of it, there, in Galatians 2.

This here...

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Is this here...

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Which is this here...

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

And this here...

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Which was the means of delivery from this here...

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Which is why he went into this here, to begin with...

Galatians 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The thing is very circular - each aspect an important part of the whole it comes back to, to point out.

Because Romans 5:8.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
There are a lot of things about Paul that were said for those steeped in 1st century Judaism. Gal 2:20 for example. It is not a good verse for personal transformation in general; it has to be about basing ones' self on Christ in a setting of Judaism.
Click to expand...

Made up.
 
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