Not in their fleshly lifetime. They were made perfect after they died. I gave you the scripture that says that, but instead of you dealing with the scriptures I post, you try to nullify them with other scriptures.
That is right, because they were made perfect WHEN Jesus died and the gospel was preached.
They are the cloud of witnesses.
They were in heaven looking on to the gospel mystery that was being made known.
Hebrews 12:2 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,
I guess you do not know that we are made perfect when we are saved.
Hebrews 10:10 and by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy
Hebrews 11:40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
Hebrews 12:13 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.
Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.
John 17:19 John 17:19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified
Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
Paul did not believe in soul sleep, the doctrine of death, as I call it.
Paul knew he was going to heaven when he died.
Philippians 1:22-24 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.
Did you read that?
Paul speaks of remaining in the body or departing to be with Christ.
I only want God's Truth.
First, Paul uses the term "perfected" to mean being raised immortal, incorruptible. He says without this change we cannot enter the kingdom of God. Paul spends a lot of time directly talking about the resurrection, which your theory there effectively denies.
1 Corinthians 15:50-52 KJV
(50) Now this I say, brethren,
that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep,
but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Now, that trumpet has not yet sounded. The dead have not been raised. And until that change, it says we cannot inherit the kingdom of God. That's quite clear.
Now I'm going to ask you to be
honest for a moment. I want you to try really hard. Not being entirely sarcastic either. So the question is there. If the dead are actually dead, as the scripture says, without love, hatred, envy, knowledge, ability to praise God, knowledge that they are dead, and so forth...
(Did you get that?) then if the dead don't know that they are dead and have no more knowledge or thoughts or emotion, then how long do they "wait" until they are raised? Do they get bored?
And when the dead are raised, as Paul describes, with the shout of the archangel, whom are they rising to meet? Isn't that the Lord, returning in the air? So how long does Paul have to wait from when he dies to rising in the air to meet Christ?
I just asked you to be honest. Let's see if you can give an honest answer. Typically people refuse to answer that question.
