Eagles Wings
New member
Anyone who accuses a professed Christian of eternal damnation is a hypocrite (ie; pretender, liar, pietist).
That includes any on TOL who do this.
None of us know the eternal security of another.
Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
That includes any on TOL who do this.
None of us know the eternal security of another.
spirit is formless. Formless means spaceless and timeless. Listen, recieving and etc requires form and space. Many here are way way too worldly and carnal always looking for excuses where God might be. They have no clue of God at all. They read the bible like fiction. Atheist can do that too, easily. They please themselves by saving themselves , alone
The Holy Spirit is a person, a very real person.
His Job is the magnify the work and the person of Jesus Christ and to work in the life of the believer.
Jesus said, "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come (he came into the world on the day of Pentecost) he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself: but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mime (The Gospel) and shall show it unto you" John 16:13, 14.
It is no surprise that you deny the Holy Spirit. You don't know him.
Eagles Wings
New member
TulipBee knows the Spirit quite well, in my humble estimation from reading his posts.
Those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit magnify Jesus Christ and his Gospel. Tulipbee does not know what the Gospel is.
beloved57
Well-known member
False statements not found in scripture!
beloved57
Well-known member
Well you don't qualify since you believe and teach that people Christ died for, shed His Blood for, are still going to perish in their sins!
beloved57
Well-known member
Nobody teaching that sinners Christ died for are going to perish in their sins, is indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
Eagles Wings
New member
Sure he does. On another note, are you a Packer fan?
Rondonmonson
New member
Now as to this guy calling my post false, I have been a preacher for 25 years, the only kind of people I meet who always say everyone's thoughts and understandings are wrong except theirs is the kind of people you have to be weary of.
{{{ We were all elected via the blood of Christ, some just choose to not accept this calling. Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world, thus we were all predestined by God to be saved through Jesus' blood. It is really simple logic, God can not lie, and if He desires that all men would not perish, but have everlasting life, then Calvinism is just a misunderstanding of the word. Which is not a rare case in Christendom.}}}
Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, ( So what is God's Will ? )
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:3 This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
We are predestined unto Christ Jesus' salvation, that is Gods will, that all should choose Jesus' Blood.
Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. So Jesus was a Sacrifice for us before the Universe was even created, because God knows the beginning and the ending and everything in between.
Rosenritter
New member
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
That's confusion and false doctrine? Seems like sound advice to me.
Rosenritter
New member
I think that is what you were suggesting without realizing it. But that's the right procedure, to stop at the first point where there's disagreement. Let's review it.
This is how I summarized your position:
And you object. Let's break this down and be specific. Can you clarify then please, does it make someone "unjust" if they offer grace and mercy and that offer is rejected? Yes | No (shall I assume that your answer is No?)
If No, how does this relate to the sacrifice of Christ? Christ chose to offer grace and mercy to mankind, to forgive their sins and trespasses against him. He bore shame and was lifted up that he might draw all men to him. (John 12:32 KJV). How would this make Him unjust if some will not accept it? How is it any different?
John 12:32 KJV
(32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
What I'm anticipating here is that you're viewing Jesus as if he isn't God, as if God inflicted something upon poor Jesus against His will. Do you acknowledge Jesus as God, and that he did this willingly?
John 10:17-18 KJV
(17) Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
(18) No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
No one inflicted this on Jesus. It is a natural element of law that one is allowed to do what they want with their own property, with their own life, if they do not harm another. Jesus did not inflict harm on someone else, he did not transgress the law, he laid down his own life and not that of another. He had the power to take it back again as well, as he said, in his own words. How can that be unjust? He can offer forgiveness to all and it does not make him unjust if some will not (not shall not, but will not) be forgiven.
Mercy defeats (takes precedence over) justice. This is my own saying, not a quote, but I understand it to be true. That does not mean that mercy is unjust. Justice is required unless mercy is given. Mercy is better, it is preferable, it is God's desire.
If there's disagreement along any of that please flag it and we'll back up if necessary. No point on running ahead on areas where there isn't consensus.
Rosenritter
New member
Hey, I don't think Marhig is trying to bear false witness against you. Conversations like these sometimes have misunderstandings and mistakes made on both sides, especially when attempting to rephrase the position of the other person in different words (which is necessary to prove understanding of the other position.) The noble path is for both sides to try to iron them out.
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Looks as if you're a wee bit confused Rosie. By the way Rosie, James was written to the twelve tribes of Israel. Learn how to "Rightly Divide."
Rosenritter
New member
Beloved, the scripture tells us at a certain point we shall shed mortality and put on immortality, that this corruption shall put on incorruption. While we are mortal we can die, while we can die we have life but we do not yet have eternal life. We may have the potential for eternal life, or the conditional promise of eternal life, but the fact that we can die proves that it is not eternal life... yet.
When does it say that we shall have this eternal life, this immortality, when death is finally conquered? Hint, I'm thinking of Paul's definition of the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
I beg to differ with your "preaching."
The blood shed (death) of Jesus Christ, as Testator, ratified the new Covenant of Grace that provides inheritance willed by God to a remnant of mankind named as beneficiaries.
The cross work of Christ performed promise.
A promise made by God, is promise kept by God, and is not contingent upon human choice or acceptance.
Salvation is God's free gift to the elect (particular souls alone chosen for redemption before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1:3-12) and was efficaciously worked by the power and purpose and grace of God, alone.
John 1:12-13
Rosie, you lack true discernment. B57 is what they call a "Hyper-Calvinist." Even Nang wouldn't go along with everything B57 preaches. He believes that God creates ALL sin.
Rosenritter
New member
Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
(22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
(23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Nanja, what Bible are you using that has "belief" as a fruit of the spirit? Even if you were to point to the word "faith" that does not mean that one requires the Holy Spirit to first believe.
Mark 9:23-24 KJV
(23) Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
(24) And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
Did the father require the Holy Spirit to believe, and to pray "help thou mine unbelief?" If you say yes, then how come he had unbelief?
Also, Acts 11:21 does not say that God (the Holy Spirit) made the people believe. It says the hand of the Lord was with them. And even then, how many of those who believed actually stayed? Jesus himself told parables that said that not all that believe will stay.
Luke 8:11-14 KJV
(11) Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
(12) Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
(13) They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
(14) And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Since you just equated "believed" with "requires the predestined Holy spirit first" with "eternally saved" I think that Jesus just destroyed Calvinism in the gospel of Luke with that parable. The good news is that the true and honest gospel is much much better than that allowed by Calvinism.
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It is God's desire that all humanity comes to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. However, God created us with a "Free will" and when we hear the Gospel, we have the ability to reject or accept God's free gift of eternal lie, etc.