Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

way 2 go · Sep 11, 2016

Lazy afternoon said:
Do spirits have fingers and get thirsty?

LA

is this where you want to say Jesus lied ?

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

or
is this where you want to say Jesus lied?

Luk 16:25But Abraham said,

way 2 go · Sep 11, 2016

Lazy afternoon said:
Yes Christ fully died and was raised from the dead by His Father.

The soul that sinneth shall die, not live on.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

LA

yup

the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Paul sinned & died and yet was still alive

Rom 7:9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.

Lazy afternoon · Sep 11, 2016

way 2 go said:
yup

the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Paul sinned & died and yet was still alive

Rom 7:9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.

Did Jesus die on the cross?

So you are one of those who believe all references to death apply to a change in spirit only.

All spiritualists believe the same as does poster CR.

Did God lie when He said--

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Lazy afternoon · Sep 11, 2016

way 2 go said:
is this where you want to say Jesus lied ?

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

or
is this where you want to say Jesus lied?

Luk 16:25But Abraham said,

So you claim the dead in hell after the last judgment can speak to the alive righteous and the dead can get thirsty for water.

LA

Lazy afternoon · Sep 11, 2016

way 2 go said:
the hell deniers are trying to take comfort in a lie
and reality is ,

in fire not being burned up Luk 16:24 Rev 20:14

Those two verses prove punishment in fire before annialation in the lake of fire.

Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Those without immortality can not live in that fire.

Jesus did not lie as you suppose--

Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
LA

way 2 go · Sep 11, 2016

Lazy afternoon said:
Those two verses prove punishment in fire before annialation in the lake of fire.

no

Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Are you saying God is hell ?

Those without immortality can not live in that fire.

sure they can or is this where you want to say Jesus lied ?

Luk 16:24**He called, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me! Send Lazarus to me so that he can dip his finger in water and cool my tongue. I am suffering in this fire!'

Jesus did not lie as you suppose--

I know Jesus did not lie , you on the other hand
YOU don't believe Jesus here:
Luk 16:24 He called, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me! Send Lazarus to me so that he can dip his finger in water and cool my tongue. I am suffering in this fire!'

Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
LA

yup better to lose a hand than go to hell :duh:

way 2 go · Sep 11, 2016

Lazy afternoon said:
So you claim the dead in hell after the last judgment can speak to the alive righteous
LA

I made no such claim

Jesus said : Luk 16:25**"But Abraham said,
Jesus said : Luk 16:27**"The rich man said,

I asked you where Jesus lied ?

here

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

or
is this where you want to say Jesus lied ?

Luk 16:25But Abraham said,[/QUOTE]

way 2 go · Sep 11, 2016

Lazy afternoon said:
Did Jesus die on the cross?

yes.
Luk 23:46**And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

So you are one of those who believe all references to death apply to a change in spirit only.

spiritual death
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins

physical death
Luk 16:22**"Later, Lazarus died.

All spiritualists believe the same as does poster CR.

which is?

Did God lie when He said--

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

God did not lie.

Eze 18:4**Behold,H2005 allH3605 soulsH5315 are mine

H5315
נֶפֶשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature,

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

the fire did not burn up the rich man here.
Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

Arthur Brain · Sep 11, 2016

way 2 go said:
is this where you want to say Jesus lied ?

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

or
is this where you want to say Jesus lied?

Luk 16:25But Abraham said,

Wanna explain how a man being tormented in flame still has the capacity for coherent speech? Why he wouldn't just be screaming instead? And why ask for a drop of water for his tongue instead of something just to put out the flames?

:AMR:

marhig · Sep 12, 2016

way 2 go said:
what verse was that from ?

Jesus takes away our sin.

Joh_1:29**The next day John sees Jesus coming to him and says, Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

I'm talking about the holy spirit in the heart saving us daily, he helps us to overcome our sins within and turns our hearts away from the lusts of the flesh. Sin separates us from God and without the spirit in the heart we're dead in our sins, without Christ we have no hope.

What does a natural fire do? You throw in rubbish at it, and it burns it up and gives out warmth. And that's what happens in those who are in Christ and walk after the spirit. Whatever is thrown at them, it doesn't harm them the spirit gives them strength to overcome and he destroys sin so that it doesn't fester in the heart, overcoming it with love, and then they who walk in the spirit show that love of God regardless of what happens to them.

The spirit corrects us, encourages us and urges us to do right and he cleanses us from our sins within, if we listen to him. And he helps us to stop sin from penetrating into our heart, giving us the word of God with power. And with Gods love he strengthens us to overcome.

The only way that Satan is getting in, is if we let him in because of our own lusts. If he gets in and stays there, the sin grows and we separate ourselves from God and die. If we listen to the spirit and deny ourselves and turn from sin we draw closer to God and become stronger in the spirit and live.

The fire of God destroys sin, the fire of Satan destroys us. If we let him in!

freelight · Sep 12, 2016

Arthur Brain said:
Wanna explain how a man being tormented in flame still has the capacity for coherent speech? Why he wouldn't just be screaming instead? And why ask for a drop of water for his tongue instead of something just to put out the flames?

:AMR:

It's just a parable

Lazy afternoon · Sep 12, 2016

Arthur Brain said:
Wanna explain how a man being tormented in flame still has the capacity for coherent speech? Why he wouldn't just be screaming instead? And why ask for a drop of water for his tongue instead of something just to put out the flames?

:AMR:

Waytogo thinks it is a picture of eternal conscious suffering.

with no scriptural support. Adding to the word of God.

Jesus said it was better to cut off your hand that sins, than lose your whole body in hell.

Wayto go thinks ones spirit has arms and legs.

LA

Cross Reference · Sep 12, 2016

Lazy afternoon said:
Waytogo thinks it is a picture of eternal conscious suffering.

with no scriptural support. Adding to the word of God.

Jesus said it was better to cut off your hand that sins, than lose your whole body in hell.

Wayto go thinks ones spirit has arms and legs.

LA

Why do you lie against someone? What is your point in doing so? What are you trying to prove by purposely either ignoring or distorting the scriptures given you that speak to your error? What do you hope to gain by doing so?

way 2 go · Sep 12, 2016

Arthur Brain said:
Wanna explain how a man being tormented in flame still has the capacity for coherent speech?

He is in fire not on fire :duh:
Luk 16:24*...for I am tormented in this flame.

Why he wouldn't just be screaming instead?

negotiate first, scream and throw a tantrum later .

Luk_16:28**for I have five brothers, so that he may testify to them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

And why ask for a drop of water for his tongue instead of something just to put out the flames?

:AMR:

negotiate small compromise then go for the big compromise

way 2 go · Sep 12, 2016

freelight said:
It's just a parable

Jesus spoke of heaven in parables :BillyBob:

Mat 13:10**And the disciples said to Him, Why do You speak to them in parables?
Mat 13:11**He answered and said to them, Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, but it is not given to them.

way 2 go · Sep 12, 2016

Lazy afternoon said:
Waytogo thinks it is a picture of eternal conscious suffering.

with no scriptural support. Adding to the word of God.

scriptural support
rich man is conscious & not being burned up in the fire

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

Jesus said it was better to cut off your hand that sins, than lose your whole body in hell.

Wayto go thinks ones spirit has arms and legs.

LA

departed people are recognizable rich man recognized Lazarus and Abraham.

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

Rosenritter · Sep 13, 2016

Cross Reference said:
He commanded that of them because they as yet DID NOT have enough insight to understand to explain what they witnessed; what went on. . . . Just like you. You need to shut up and read your Bible, praying over it all before you do before trying to explain even in part that for which you have no capability..

< back to ignore mode >

I see that Cross Reference has taken the "Jesus lied" position.

Cross Reference · Sep 13, 2016

Rosenritter said:
I see that Cross Reference has taken the "Jesus lied" position.

You "see" nothing. You know nothing.

Arthur Brain · Sep 13, 2016

way 2 go said:
He is in fire not on fire :duh:
Luk 16:24*...for I am tormented in this flame.

negotiate first, scream and throw a tantrum later .

Luk_16:28**for I have five brothers, so that he may testify to them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

negotiate small compromise then go for the big compromise

What? You really are clutching at straws now. So someone in fire isn't going to be in agony?

Bonkers.

Lazy afternoon · Sep 13, 2016

Rosenritter said:
I see that Cross Reference has taken the "Jesus lied" position.

Yes.

CR follows the Baals.

LA

Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

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