How important is the Sabbath?

D

daqq

Well-known member
TweetyBird said:
1 indicated Num 28 to prove that sacrifices were required on the Sabbath, per the Law of Moses. That means no one cannot actually observe/be obedient/keep the Sabbath unless they sacrifice animals per Num 28.
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You failed to state anything about what you supposedly meant by posting nothing more than "Numbers 28" in your response to what was posted. Your only possible answer is therefore in answer to what was posted. It is not my fault you failed to offer any explanation for what you posted. In addition your response here again shows that you are no better off in your position than the Chief Priests, Pharisees, Sadducs, and Scribes of the first century in Gospel accounts when you suggest that they misunderstood the law because you yourself hold the very same view of animal sacrifices which they also held. You show yourself to be almost completely ignorant of the doctrines, parables, and teachings of Yeshua as well as the teachings of all the apostolic writings and that is over and above Torah, Prophets, and Writings, and especially the Psalms which expound the sacrifices even further. Over and above these things, as already stated in my first reply to this thread on page one, you also have no clue what you are reading, neither in Numbers 28, nor concerning the Creation account, nor the Great Day of Golgotha and the hours of the new creation therein, nor the ministry of Messiah and how all the prophetic times foretold in Daniel are fulfilled in the ministry of Yohanan and Yeshua, nor the weekly Shabbat, nor the daily Shabbatot which are the seventh hour of every day called Sabbasin in the Gospel accounts.

Numbers 28:9-10 YLT
9 'And on the sabbath-day, two lambs, sons of a year, perfect ones, and two-tenth deals of flour, a present, mixed with oil, and its libation;
10 the burnt-offering of the sabbath in its sabbath, besides the continual burnt-offering and its libation.

Numbers 28:10 Hebrew Transliterated Text
10 ‘ō·laṯ šab·baṯ bə·šab·bat·tōw; ‘al- ‘ō·laṯ hat·tā·mîḏ wə·nis·kāh.
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/transliterated/numbers/28.htm

Numbers 28:10
10 [the] ascending offering of a Shabbat in its Shabbat, apart from the continual ascending offering and its libation.

Yes, a Shabbat in its Shabbat, which is the seventh hour of the seventh day.
Without the Sabbath you have not the Word of Elohim whose name is Messiah Yeshua.
 
TweetyBird

TweetyBird

New member
daqq said:
You failed to state anything about what you supposedly meant by posting nothing more than "Numbers 28" in your response to what was posted. Your only possible answer is therefore in answer to what was posted. It is not my fault you failed to offer any explanation for what you posted. In addition your response here again shows that you are no better off in your position than the Chief Priests, Pharisees, Sadducs, and Scribes of the first century in Gospel accounts when you suggest that they misunderstood the law because you yourself hold the very same view of animal sacrifices which they also held. You show yourself to be almost completely ignorant of the doctrines, parables, and teachings of Yeshua as well as the teachings of all the apostolic writings and that is over and above Torah, Prophets, and Writings, and especially the Psalms which expound the sacrifices even further. Over and above these things, as already stated in my first reply to this thread on page one, you also have no clue what you are reading, neither in Numbers 28, nor concerning the Creation account, nor the Great Day of Golgotha and the hours of the new creation therein, nor the ministry of Messiah and how all the prophetic times foretold in Daniel are fulfilled in the ministry of Yohanan and Yeshua, nor the weekly Shabbat, nor the daily Shabbatot which are the seventh hour of every day called Sabbasin in the Gospel accounts.

Numbers 28:9-10 YLT
9 'And on the sabbath-day, two lambs, sons of a year, perfect ones, and two-tenth deals of flour, a present, mixed with oil, and its libation;
10 the burnt-offering of the sabbath in its sabbath, besides the continual burnt-offering and its libation.

Numbers 28:10 Hebrew Transliterated Text
10 ‘ō·laṯ šab·baṯ bə·šab·bat·tōw; ‘al- ‘ō·laṯ hat·tā·mîḏ wə·nis·kāh.
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/transliterated/numbers/28.htm

Numbers 28:10
10 [the] ascending offering of a Shabbat in its Shabbat, apart from the continual ascending offering and its libation.

Yes, a Shabbat in its Shabbat, which is the seventh hour of the seventh day.
Without the Sabbath you have not the Word of Elohim whose name is Messiah Yeshua.
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Then you didn't pay attention to the posts before that and what I was referring to. Shabbat means rest. It does not mean the number 7. Once again, I was addressing SACRIFICES on the Sabbath, and if one thinks they are keeping the Sabbath without sacrificing an animal or two, they are not keeping the Sabbath. Try to keep up with the discussion.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
TweetyBird said:
Then you didn't pay attention to the posts before that and what I was referring to. Shabbat means rest. It does not mean the number 7. Once again, I was addressing SACRIFICES on the Sabbath, and if one thinks they are keeping the Sabbath without sacrificing an animal or two, they are not keeping the Sabbath. Try to keep up with the discussion.
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Then you still are not paying attention to reality: there are no sacrifices of literal physical living creatures in the kingdom of Elohim. There never has been and there never will be. You are entirely out of the realm of scripture and still have no clue what has even been said to you thus far because you view the sacrifices as literal physical innocent slain beasts which have had their throats slit and blood drained. Try to keep up with the real discussion and what is being said to you; it is important because your current understanding is carnal, pagan, murderous, and based on the lust of your belly to eat the flesh carcasses of slaughtered living creatures of Elohim. The Father is SPIRIT. According to Jeremiah He never told anyone to slaughter His innocent living creatures and offer them up to Him roasted in fire. According to Isaiah, which was also quoted already, it is abominable and means that if you partake in such things you have blood on your hands even when you raise them up to pray, and the Father will not hear you. Do you not suppose this might be of importance to you? (this includes slaughtering meat just for food or causing the deaths of innocent living creatures to satisfy your belly, for "Thou shalt not murder-kill", period, without stipulation). Therefore you have no clue whether sacrifices may still be done by kohanim in Shabbat because you do not have any clue what true sacrifice really concerns. Please pay better attention to the scripture which has been posted already and stop ignoring the Word of Elohim whom you claim to know. Take words from your heart with you and go offer up the bullocks of your lips, (Hosea 14:2, Psalm 51:15-19). :chuckle:
 
C

clefty

New member
TweetyBird said:
The Sabbath was given to Israel, to be kept within their community. The Sabbath was not given to the Gentiles. No one kept the Sabbath until God gave it to Israel at Mt Sinai. And then, even Israel never kept the Sabbath because of unbelief.
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So why didn't He say so when He's said the sabbath was made for man...not just Israel?

Or you making Him out to be a liar?

How about when Isaiah says all nations will come again to worship sabbath to sabbath...he lied too?

No one kept the Law prior Sinai. Arguing from silence.

The Law was reintroduced with great drama as the Hebrews had been under another authority for awhile and forgot it...so they had to "Remember"

He said "Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions."

Now do you suppose that the Eternal Law sorta evolved as necessary? Additional instruction was revealed as He came up with it? Countering or reversing or nullifying previous instruction?

Some sort of progression from 1 to 10 through time? Some believers were required this other's that...

Maybe some things weren't properly worked out or maybe He copied from man's laws.



Joseph was quite clear sexual relations with his boss's wife was a sin against Yah not the boss or even pharaoh.


And um...as a Christian don't you believe your are a part of spiritual Israel?

Is spiritual israel an apartheid state with two sets of laws governing two classes of citizens?

When He died the Law was not torn in two the curtain was. It separated all but one from the Law but now we all have access to it.

In fact this perfect Law is in our heads and hearts.

But you would have it abolished or a different set.
 
C

clefty

New member
TweetyBird said:
There was no commandment for man to observe the 7th day. The text says GOD RESTED on that day, not mankind. There was no command or suggestion or hint that anyone prior to Israel at Mt Sinai that was given the Sabbath to keep as a holy day. In fact, God said He did not give any of the commandments He gave to Israel before His gave His Law contained in the Mosaic Law until Mt Sinai.
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We were created "in His image"...means we should do as He did...things went off the rails when we didn't.

Here's a hint:

https://www.google.com/search?clien...0...1c..64.mobile-gws-serp..0.0.0.N4H67K4UqKI
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
TweetyBird said:
There was no Sabbath until God gave it to Israel, because it was a particular day given to Israel as a sign. Israel has other Sabbaths that are not on the 7th day.

The 7th day of creation was not given as a Sabbath to anyone until God chose Israel to be a nation at Mt Sinai. It was a commandment involving laws of things they could and could not do and requirements like sacrifices for sin. No one kept or observed the 7th day as a Sabbath until then.
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Christians are a part of the nation of Israel because they are a grafted branch. Romans 9:6
It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
 
C

clefty

New member
TweetyBird said:
No one can keep the Mosaic Law Covenant. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. If you fail at one commandment, you have failed at all.

God the Father only has one covenant - the new covenant which is the blood of Christ, the Gospel.
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Correct. No one can/could keep all of it.

I like to say it keeps us.

But do we stop trying?

That the blood was spilt for us should motivate our gratitude to give back in our obedience.

Thankfully, in Him, His yoke is indeed light. Notice it's not a different yoke, smaller or more loose but with Him it's lighter.

It is also a yoke that identifies who bought us and keeps us.
 
C

clefty

New member
TweetyBird said:
Thank you, I will. I am not nor was I ever under the Mosaic Law. Freedom from the Law is a beautiful thing :roses:
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Freedom from the consequences of breaking the Law...

It remains as it is needed at judgement day to separate those who think themselves free and those who are happily slaves to His will.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
TweetyBird said:
It was a literal physical slaying of animals that was given to Israel in order to observe the Sabbath. You can't refute it with Scripture, because the slaying of said animals IS written in Scripture. The Sabbath was given to Israel, ONLY, as a sign that they and they only were the physical chosen nation of God under the old/Mosaic/Law/Covenant --- as is written, also.
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The Seventh Day Sabbath Rest has nothing to do with animal sacrifice.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
TweetyBird said:
He did not observe it as a Sabbath. He did not light a fire or sacrifice animals for sin, did He? You understand that Sabbath means rest, not the 7th day?
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There are other Sabbaths besides the seventh day rest Sabbath. This thread is about the Seventh Day Sabbath Rest.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
TweetyBird said:
God rested on the 7th day. It was not a Sabbath until He gave it to Israel as a sign that they were His chosen people.

Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
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The Seventh Day Sabbath Rest is also a sign for Christians because we are also Israel.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
TweetyBird said:
Thank you, I will. I am not nor was I ever under the Mosaic Law. Freedom from the Law is a beautiful thing :roses:
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The Mosaic Laws deal with the priesthood, sacrifices, and the festivals. We are not free from Gods moral commands and His Seventh Day Sabbath Rest.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
Ben Masada said:
To the Jews so that the Sabbath be a sign between Yahweh and us so that we never forget that Yahweh is our God. (Ezekiel 20:12,20)
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Have you ever studied the New Testament Ben. The reason I ask, is because you keep coming up with funny ideas.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
TweetyBird said:
God rested on the 7th day. It was not a Sabbath until He gave it to Israel as a sign that they were His chosen people.

Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
Click to expand...

Ephesians 2:12
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.
 
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