The Incarnation of the WORD

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Robert Pate

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Banned
"In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with God and the WORD was God" John 1:1.

And the WORD was made flesh and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth" John 1:14.

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus was God in the flesh. The Bible also clearly teaches that God is three persons in one. 1 John 5:7. Don't ask me how that can be. All that we have to go by is what the scripture says. I believe and have faith in what the Bible says.

It is not possible for anyone to be saved if one believes that Jesus was Just a good man and was not God, Jesus said, "I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he (God), you will die in your sins" John 8:24.

Multitudes will die in their sins because they do not believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. It is not possible to believe that Jesus was just a man and be saved. How can you have faith in a man? If Jesus was just a man then that means that he was a sinner like us. Only God can turn water into wine, only God can heal the sick, feed 5000 and raise the dead.

Jesus was God with us and God for us. Jesus came into the world to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. Religion wants you to believe that you can please God with your works or by what you have become. In the sight of God your very best works is sin. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus for the salvation of fallen man.

The incarnation of the word means that Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17. We become part of God's new creation by being in Christ. To be in Christ means that you have renounced your righteousness or your religion and you are trusting in Christ and in Christ alone for your salvation.

"For he that has entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works (religion) as God did from his" Hebrews 4:10.
 
jamie

jamie

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Robert Pate said:
"For he that has entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works (religion) as God did from his" Hebrews 4:10.
Click to expand...

Good point, Robert. So how did God cease from his works and enter into rest?

And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. (Genesis 2:2-3 NKJV)​

I wish more people would emphasize the seventh day rest established by our Creator.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
"In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with God and the WORD was God" John 1:1.

And the WORD was made flesh and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth" John 1:14.

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus was God in the flesh. The Bible also clearly teaches that God is three persons in one. 1 John 5:7. Don't ask me how that can be. All that we have to go by is what the scripture says. I believe and have faith in what the Bible says.

It is not possible for anyone to be saved if one believes that Jesus was Just a good man and was not God, Jesus said, "I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he (God), you will die in your sins" John 8:24.

Multitudes will die in their sins because they do not believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. If is not possible to believe that Jesus was just a man and be saved. How can you have faith in a man? If Jesus was just a man then that means that he was a sinner like us. Only God can turn water into wine, only God can heal the sick, feed 5000 and raise the dead.

Jesus was God with us and God for us. Jesus came into the world to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. Religion wants you to believe that you can please God with your works or by what you have become. In the sight of God your very best works is sin. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus for the salvation of fallen man.

The incarnation of the word means that Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17. We become part of God's new creation by being in Christ. To be in Christ means that you have renounced your righteousness or your religion and you are trusting in Christ and in Christ alone for your salvation.

"For he that has entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works (religion) as God did from his" Hebrews 4:10.
Click to expand...

The Gospel of John does not say what you say that it says. In fact Yeshua himself says that the Son of man descended from the heavens:

John 3:13 KJV
13. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

John 3:13 ASV
13. And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, who is in heaven.

John 3:13 RSV
13. No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man.

The Son of man is he that descended in the pneumatikos-spiritual somatikos-bodily form of a Yonah-Dove at the immersion of Yeshua:

Luke 3:23 ASV
22. and the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily [somatikos] form, as a dove, upon him, and a voice came out of heaven, Thou art my beloved Son: in thee I am well pleased.

All flesh is not the same flesh:

1 Corinthians 15:39-45 ASV
39. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, [i.e. doves] and another of fishes.
40. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43. it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44. it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45. So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

You greatly err because of a physical and flesh minded paradigm.
Messiah Yeshua the Son of Elohim descended from the heavens.
The man Yeshua did not descend from the heavens.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
daqq said:
The Gospel of John does not say what you say that it says. In fact Yeshua himself says that the Son of man descended from the heavens:

John 3:13 KJV
13. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

John 3:13 ASV
13. And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, who is in heaven.

John 3:13 RSV
13. No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man.

The Son of man is he that descended in the pneumatikos-spiritual somatikos-bodily form of a Yonah-Dove at the immersion of Yeshua:

Luke 3:23 ASV
22. and the Holy Spirit descended in a bodily [somatikos] form, as a dove, upon him, and a voice came out of heaven, Thou art my beloved Son: in thee I am well pleased.

All flesh is not the same flesh:

1 Corinthians 15:39-45 ASV
39. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, [i.e. doves] and another of fishes.
40. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43. it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44. it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45. So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

You greatly err because of a physical and flesh minded paradigm.
Messiah Yeshua the Son of Elohim descended from the heavens.
The man Yeshua did not descend from the heavens.
Click to expand...


Jesus was all that man can be and all that God can be in one person.

He had to be all man (human) and all God to save us.

Jesus came into the world, perfected our humanity and took it back to heaven.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Jesus was all that man can be and all that God can be in one person.

He had to be all man (human) and all God to save us.

Jesus came into the world, perfected our humanity and took it back to heaven.
Click to expand...

The Father judges no one but has committed all judgment to the Son:

John 5:22
22. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:

The man Yeshua also states that he judges no one:

John 8:15
15. You judge after the flesh: I judge no one.

There is only one who judges, the Seeker and Judge:

John 8:50
50. And I seek not mine own glory: one there is, the Seeker and Judge.

The Logos-Word which the man Yeshua speaks is not his own:

John 14:24
24. He that loves me not, keeps not my sayings: and the Logos-Word which you hear is not of me, but [it is] of the Father who sent me.

The Logos-Word is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 12:47-48
47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the Logos-Word that I have spoken, that one shall judge him in the last day.

The Son of man is the Logos-Word that descended from the heavens in the pneumatikos-somatikos bodily form of a dove and abode-remained upon the man Yeshua throughout his ministry including the crucifixion at Golgotha.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
daqq said:
The Father judges no one but has committed all judgment to the Son:

John 5:22
22. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:

The man Yeshua also states that he judges no one:

John 8:15
15. You judge after the flesh: I judge no one.

There is only one who judges, the Seeker and Judge:

John 8:50
50. And I seek not mine own glory: one there is, the Seeker and Judge.

The Logos-Word which the man Yeshua speaks is not his own:

John 14:24
24. He that loves me not, keeps not my sayings: and the Logos-Word which you hear is not of me, but [it is] of the Father who sent me.

The Logos-Word is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 12:47-48
47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the Logos-Word that I have spoken, that one shall judge him in the last day.

The Son of man is the Logos-Word that descended from the heavens in the pneumatikos-somatikos bodily form of a dove and abode-remained upon the man Yeshua throughout his ministry including the crucifixion at Golgotha.
Click to expand...

What is a pneumatikos-somatikos bodily form?

The scripture says that "The word was made flesh" John 1:14.

Not a pneumatikos-somatikos, whatever that is.

I don't think that you believe what the Bible is saying.

What is your religion?
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
What is a pneumatikos-somatikos bodily form?

The scripture says that "The word was made flesh" John 1:14.

Not a pneumatikos-somatikos, whatever that is.

I don't think that you believe what the Bible is saying.

What is your religion?
Click to expand...

It is you who does not believe what the scripture is saying. The things quoted to you in the above posts are plain as day. In addition it was also already quoted from 1Cor15 what Paul says, that is, that there are two bodies, (soma). If there is a soma-psuchikos, (a natural body) then there is a soma-pneumatikos, (a spiritual body). The Spirit of Elohim descended in a somatikos-bodily form as a dove as written in Luke 3:22 and also quoted above.

1 Corinthians 15:39-45 ASV
39. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, [i.e. doves] and another of fishes.
40. There are also celestial bodies, [heavenly] and bodies terrestrial: [earthly] but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43. it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44. it is sown a natural body; [soma psuchikos] it is raised a spiritual body [soma pneumatikos]. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
45. So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:44 Transliterated
44. Speiretai soma psuchikon, egeiretai soma pneumatikon. Ei estin soma psuchikon, estin kai pneumatikon.

What is employed in Luke 3:22 for "bodily" is somatikos from soma-body:

Luke 3:22 Transliterated
22. kai katabenai to Pneuma to Hagion somatiko eidei hos peristeran ep auton. Kai fonen exouranou genesthai, Su ei ho Huios mou ho agapetos, ensoi eudokesa!

The Spirit of Elohim descended in BODILY form according to Luke 3:22. You MUST account for this in your so-called theology or you do not understand the truth in any way shape or form. "ALL FLESH IS NOT THE SAME FLESH", (1 Cor 15:39).

Luke 4:17-21
17. And there was delivered unto him the scroll of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the scroll, he found the place where it was written,
18. The Spirit of YHWH is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19. To preach the acceptable year of YHWH.
20. And he closed the scroll, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21. And he commenced, saying unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
 
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daqq

Well-known member
And there is evidence for what I say in the very first words of scripture concerning the Son of man being the Dove. The word used in Genesis 1:2 concerning the Spirit of Elohim "moving" upon the face of the waters actually means to brood or to flutter. Young's Literal Bible recognizes this fact and translates it accordingly:

Genesis 1:2 YLT
2. the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness [is] on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering [HSN#7363 rachaph] on the face of the waters,

Strong's Ref. #7363
Romanized rachaph
Pronounced raw-khaf'
a primitive root; to brood; by implication, to be relaxed:
KJV--flutter, move, shake.

Genesis 1:2
2. And the earth was without form, and vacuous-void; and darkness was upon the face of the abyss: and Ruach Elohim brooded-fluttered over the face of the waters.

Ruach Elohim is the Spirit of Elohim, not necessarily the Father Himself but His Spirit, that is to say, His Word, who is likewise His Son, (who is also Wisdom: for there is neither male nor female in Messiah). The Spirit of YHWH abode-remained upon the man Yeshua even through the final immersion of death at Golgotha. The Spirit of Elohim spoke the Word through the man Yeshua because the Word is the Spirit, the Seeker, and the Judge:

Matthew 23:37 RSV
37. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
daqq said:
And there is evidence for what I say in the very first words of scripture concerning the Son of man being the Dove. The word used in Genesis 1:2 concerning the Spirit of Elohim "moving" upon the face of the waters actually means to brood or to flutter. Young's Literal Bible recognizes this fact and translates it accordingly:

Genesis 1:2 YLT
2. the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness [is] on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering [HSN#7363 rachaph] on the face of the waters,

Strong's Ref. #7363
Romanized rachaph
Pronounced raw-khaf'
a primitive root; to brood; by implication, to be relaxed:
KJV--flutter, move, shake.

Genesis 1:2
2. And the earth was without form, and vacuous-void; and darkness was upon the face of the abyss: and Ruach Elohim brooded-fluttered over the face of the waters.

Ruach Elohim is the Spirit of Elohim, not necessarily the Father Himself but His Spirit, that is to say, His Word, who is likewise His Son, (who is also Wisdom: for there is neither male nor female in Messiah). The Spirit of YHWH abode-remained upon the man Yeshua even through the final immersion of death at Golgotha. The Spirit of Elohim spoke the Word through the man Yeshua because the Word is the Spirit, the Seeker, and the Judge:

Matthew 23:37 RSV
37. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!
Click to expand...


You are saying a lot of things, but I think that what you are really saying is that Jesus did not come in the flesh or did not come in human flesh. Right?
 
False Prophet

False Prophet

New member
The harlot church and counterfeit christians introduce destructive heresies that cause Christians to fall away from the faith.
Then said the Master, "Verily the five lusts of the senses are sweet in the hour of actual enjoyment, Brother; but this enjoyment of them (in that it entails the miseries of re-birth in hell and the other evil states) is like the eating of the fruit of the What-fruit tree. Very fair to view is the What-fruit, very fragrant-and sweet; but when eaten, it racks the inwards and brings death. In other days, through ignorance [368] of its evil nature, a multitude of men, seduced by the beauty, fragrance and sweetness of the fruit, ate thereof so that they died." So saying, he told this story of the past. Jataka Stories
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
You are saying a lot of things, but I think that what you are really saying is that Jesus did not come in the flesh or did not come in human flesh. Right?
Click to expand...

Wrong. How can you not see what I have said? If I say to you, "the man Yeshua", then how is it that you come to the opposite conclusion concerning what I have said? How can "the man Yeshua" not be a man? As for your insinuation pointing at 1 John 4:1-3 it is you who is denying that the Son of man descended from the heavens in BODILY FORM. The man Yeshua did not descend from the heavens and the man Yeshua clearly tells you exactly who did! Why can you not see the scripture that was posted from John 3:13? It is because you have on thick black paradigm blinders and refuse to take them off.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
daqq said:
Wrong. How can you not see what I have said? If I say to you, "the man Yeshua", then how is it that you come to the opposite conclusion concerning what I have said? How can "the man Yeshua" not be a man? As for your insinuation pointing at 1 John 4:1-3 it is you who is denying that the Son of man descended from the heavens in BODILY FORM. The man Yeshua did not descend from the heavens and the man Yeshua clearly tells you exactly who did! Why can you not see the scripture that was posted from John 3:13? It is because you have on thick black paradigm blinders and refuse to take them off.
Click to expand...

Why do you refer to Jesus as Yeshua? The New Testament name is Jesus, not Yeshua.

The word was in heaven with God before the foundation of the world.

The scripture plainly tells us that the "Word was with God and the word was God and the same was in the beginning with God" John 1:1, 2.

Of course we know that Jesus came into the world through the virgin Mary. No one is saying that Jesus ascended to this earth in a bodily form.
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
"In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with God and the WORD was God" John 1:1.

And the WORD was made flesh and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth" John 1:14.

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus was God in the flesh. The Bible also clearly teaches that God is three persons in one. 1 John 5:7. Don't ask me how that can be. All that we have to go by is what the scripture says. I believe and have faith in what the Bible says.

It is not possible for anyone to be saved if one believes that Jesus was Just a good man and was not God, Jesus said, "I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am he (God), you will die in your sins" John 8:24.

Multitudes will die in their sins because they do not believe that Jesus was God in the flesh. It is not possible to believe that Jesus was just a man and be saved. How can you have faith in a man? If Jesus was just a man then that means that he was a sinner like us. Only God can turn water into wine, only God can heal the sick, feed 5000 and raise the dead.

Jesus was God with us and God for us. Jesus came into the world to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. Religion wants you to believe that you can please God with your works or by what you have become. In the sight of God your very best works is sin. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus for the salvation of fallen man.

The incarnation of the word means that Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17. We become part of God's new creation by being in Christ. To be in Christ means that you have renounced your righteousness or your religion and you are trusting in Christ and in Christ alone for your salvation.

"For he that has entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works (religion) as God did from his" Hebrews 4:10.
Click to expand...

Where does it clearly say that Jesus is God?
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Why do you refer to Jesus as Yeshua? The New Testament name is Jesus, not Yeshua.

The word was in heaven with God before the foundation of the world.

The scripture plainly tells us that the "Word was with God and the word was God and the same was in the beginning with God" John 1:1, 2.

Of course we know that Jesus came into the world through the virgin Mary. No one is saying that Jesus ascended to this earth in a bodily form.
Click to expand...

Boioioioioing . . . you lose . . . :crackup:

:sheep:
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
You are saying a lot of things, but I think that what you are really saying is that Jesus did not come in the flesh or did not come in human flesh. Right?
Click to expand...

No friend, what he is saying is Jesus was given a very special spirit at his anointing. The true son of man is the spiritual son of the most high, the express image spoken of in Heb 1. Jesus was a msn, flesh, but the Christ in him is a spirit, the son of man. God's son became flesh in the body God provided for him.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
keypurr said:
No friend, what he is saying is Jesus was given a very special spirit at his anointing. The true son of man is the spiritual son of the most high, the express image spoken of in Heb 1. Jesus was a msn, flesh, but the Christ in him is a spirit, the son of man. God's son became flesh in the body God provided for him.
Click to expand...


We have to be careful about how we describe Jesus. He is more than just a Spirit. A Spirit can't save anyone.

He had to be all man and all God in one person. A real flesh and blood person.
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Why do you refer to Jesus as Yeshua? The New Testament name is Jesus, not Yeshua.

The word was in heaven with God before the foundation of the world.

The scripture plainly tells us that the "Word was with God and the word was God and the same was in the beginning with God" John 1:1, 2.

Of course we know that Jesus came into the world through the virgin Mary. No one is saying that Jesus ascended to this earth in a bodily form.
Click to expand...

Yeshua is the Hebrew name of Jesus.

Yes the WORD was in heaven before the Earth was created but your assumption that the word is Jesus is wrong, Jesus was born a man like we were.
The special spirit that Jesus received at his anointing is the son of man, the true spiritual son of YHWH. The express image of the Father. This is what became flesh. To become flesh it had to be something else first (spirit). This spirit is said to be a form od God in Phil 2. Put into the body prepared for it in Heb 10:5.
 
Bright Raven

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keypurr said:
No friend, what he is saying is Jesus was given a very special spirit at his anointing. The true son of man is the spiritual son of the most high, the express image spoken of in Heb 1. Jesus was a msn, flesh, but the Christ in him is a spirit, the son of man. God's son became flesh in the body God provided for him.
Click to expand...

Merry Christmas Friend. Jesus is the Christ. Always has been, always will be.

Luke 2:11 King James Version (KJV)

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

The angel of the Lord came to the shepherds, and a bright, glorious light shone all around them. As they recoiled in terror, the angel comforted them and broke the news. It was good tidings of great joy for all the people. That very day in nearby Bethlehem, a baby had been born. This baby was a savior, who is Christ the Lord. Here we have a theology in miniature. First He is a Savior, which is expressed in his name, Jesus. Then He is Christ, the anointed one of God, the Messiah of Israel. Finally He is the Lord manifested in the flesh. ( From "The Believer's Bible Commentary" )

Again, Merry Christmas Friend.
 
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