Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

Rosenritter said:

James 2:17-20 KJV
(17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
(18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
(19) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
(20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


Read much?

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James teaches that faith that is gifted as the result of Godly regeneration and justification, always manifests and produces a sanctified and holy life.

James is not teaching that such a lively and divine gift of faith from God can ever die away.

God justifies us to EVERLASTING LIFE, not to temporary blessings that can be lost.

Crucible said:

Their inability to will was their own fault, God did not affect their will- He rather just left them out according to what His providence ordained.

You all don't seem to want to understand Calvinism, rather you want to beat the same old straw man- a million times it has been explained, and a million times you all have come back with the same exact argument you are stating now.

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According to your doctrine, who was the only person that could have made them have the ability to will? God? So when that will is not there, whose choice was that? Again, God's. So to whose credit or blame is anyone's ability to repent or will to repent? Again, GOD'S.

Rosenritter said:

Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV
(4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
(5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
(6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Setting aside your contention, Paul warns that one can be renewed unto repentance, but then fall away. If only Augustine and Calvin were there to instruct Paul, and correct him in his error!

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This passage pertains to fake, hypocritical persons who associate for a time in Christian assemblies of worship (tares that grow amongst the wheat); temporarily enjoying the blessings of worships and fellowship, but who were never truly saved and eventually fall back into perdition. Hebrews 10:39; I John 2:19-20

Nang said:

James teaches that faith that is gifted as the result of Godly regeneration and justification, always manifests and produces a sanctified and holy life.

James is not teaching that such a lively and divine gift of faith from God can ever die away.

God justifies us to EVERLASTING LIFE, not to temporary blessings that can be lost.

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Faith is not the gift of God. That is your error, and seems to be based upon the twisting of one single scripture.

Ephesians 2:8 KJV
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

GRACE is the gift of God.

It's like Calvinism depends and hopes that one never reads the rest of the bible.

Romans 5:15 KJV
(15) But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Ephesians 3:7 KJV
(7) Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 4:7 KJV
(7) But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Do you know what faith is? Faith can die, faith can waver, faith can be overthrown.

2 Timothy 2:18 KJV
(18) Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Nang said:

This passage pertains to fake, hypocritical persons who associate for a time in Christian assemblies of worship (tares that grow amongst the wheat); temporarily enjoying the blessings of worships and fellowship, but who were never truly saved and eventually fall back into perdition. Hebrews 10:39; I John 2:19-20

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Why then do you suppose the tares must grow among the wheat until the harvest, if the harvesters know already which plants will be which? The parable only makes sense if God and the angels cannot tell them apart until the gathering. Yet Calvinism insists that God already knows them apart, rendering the parable as nonsense. Think about it...

Rosenritter said:

Why then do you suppose the tares must grow among the wheat until the harvest, if the harvesters know already which plants will be which? The parable only makes sense if God and the angels cannot tell them apart until the gathering. Yet Calvinism insists that God already knows them apart, rendering the parable as nonsense. Think about it...

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The tares counterfeit true believers. God knows who they are. They are planted in the churches by the devil, thinking to curtail the purpose and glory of the church of Christ.

But they do not last. They fall away or expose their unrepentant sins, sooner or later.

True Christianity is never successfully faked. . . Hebrews 10:39

Rosenritter said:

Faith is not the gift of God. That is your error, and seems to be based upon the twisting of one single scripture.

Ephesians 2:8 KJV
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

GRACE is the gift of God.

It's like Calvinism depends and hopes that one never reads the rest of the bible.

Romans 5:15 KJV
(15) But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Ephesians 3:7 KJV
(7) Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 4:7 KJV
(7) But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Do you know what faith is? Faith can die, faith can waver, faith can be overthrown.

2 Timothy 2:18 KJV
(18) Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

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Grace is bestowed upon sinners through the instrument of faith.

No need to quibble about this, for there is no grace given apart from faith to believe in Jesus Christ, nor is genuine and everlasting faith in Jesus Christ ever possible, apart from God's saving grace.

You attempt to make a distinction without a difference.

Nang said:

Grace is bestowed upon sinners through the instrument of faith.

No need to quibble about this, for there is no grace given apart from faith to believe in Jesus Christ, nor is genuine and everlasting faith in Jesus Christ ever possible, apart from God's saving grace.

You attempt to make a distinction without a difference.

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God gives grace to the earth through the instrument of His One Church also.

Nihilo said:

God gives grace to the earth through the instrument of His One Church also.

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How?

Nang said:

How?

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You know the Catholic Church is the most charitable organization in the world, among other things.

Rosenritter said:

According to your doctrine, who was the only person that could have made them have the ability to will? God? So when that will is not there, whose choice was that? Again, God's. So to whose credit or blame is anyone's ability to repent or will to repent? Again, GOD'S.

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That's a bunch of nonsense.

Why don't you actually go learn about what you are so against

Rosenritter said:

How old was Adam when he was judged? A couple days? a few weeks old perhaps? That's a "babe" by our standard. Yet God held him responsible for his choices. When God says that all shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ, have enough faith in his ability to trust that he knows how to do that. Spend less time trying to explain it away by limiting God to your own scope of power.

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Sorry, but, I don't respect your opinions. No offense intended. Your comments carry no weight according to my beliefs.

Crucible said:

That's a bunch of nonsense.

Why don't you actually go learn about what you are so against

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I don't respect your opinions either. Offense intended.

That lie that Christ died for everyone without exception makes God unjust, a blood thirsty uncontrollable monster. It makes Him blood thirsty because having already exercised His fierce wrath upon Christ for the sins of all for whom He died, He yet again seeks blood thirsty vengeance upon them for their same sins inspite of Christ!

Nang said:

The tares counterfeit true believers. God knows who they are. They are planted in the churches by the devil, thinking to curtail the purpose and glory of the church of Christ.

But they do not last. They fall away or expose their unrepentant sins, sooner or later.

True Christianity is never successfully faked. . . Hebrews 10:39

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Except that's not the way the parable goes. The lord and the harvesters required them to grow before they could determine the one from the other. Do you realize that you're effectively rewriting the bible to fit your doctrine?

Crucible said:

That's a bunch of nonsense.

Why don't you actually go learn about what you are so against

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Apparently I'm up against GIF-s international and the ghost of John Calvin. That's a pretty scary demon.

Grosnick Marowbe said:

Sorry, but, I don't respect your opinions. No offense intended. Your comments carry no weight according to my beliefs.

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Yet they carry enough weight for you to post denials that they carry any weight with you. If you're going to waste text, you might as well respond to the points raised. Adam was younger than the babes you say God would never judge. Yet God was able to give Adam speech, intellect, and understanding on the very day he was born. Do you really short-change God's ability to grant necessary understanding to people who have died, just because some may have died younger than others?

beloved57 said:

That lie that Christ died for everyone without exception makes God unjust, a blood thirsty uncontrollable monster. It makes Him blood thirsty because having already exercised His fierce wrath upon Christ for the sins of all for whom He died, He yet again seeks blood thirsty vengeance upon them for their same sins inspite of Christ!

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And WHERE in scripture does it say that God exercised his "fierce wrath" against Christ? Every time I've heard someone parrot those words I've asked them to show me. Every time they've refused, gone silent, or changed the subject. It's not there.

If it is, then show me. Otherwise, stop saying it.

Nang said:

This passage pertains to fake, hypocritical persons who associate for a time in Christian assemblies of worship (tares that grow amongst the wheat); temporarily enjoying the blessings of worships and fellowship, but who were never truly saved and eventually fall back into perdition. Hebrews 10:39; I John 2:19-20

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If they've been partakers of the Holy Ghost and they have been enlightened, then they know God and they have turned away. We won't know if we're eternally saved until we breathe our last breath on this earth, and only God can know who is and isn't eternally saved.

Jesus said, those who endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

We have to overcome as Christ overcame, we have to go through the fiery trials and be tested and we are to fight the flesh and deny Satan, and if we have the holy spirit he will strengthen us.

I can't believe that there are people who believe that we can wilfully sin and God will think that's ok and everyone who believes like them are going to heaven all the rest are off to hell regardless of how strong their faith is, or how they love and give their lives to God. That's just not true, sin separates us from God, and no one is predestined to be saved, we all have a choice and we all have freewill.

James 4

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin

Galatians 6

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

James 1

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

You can't get any clearer than that.

beloved57 said:

That lie that Christ died for everyone without exception makes God unjust, a blood thirsty uncontrollable monster. It makes Him blood thirsty because having already exercised His fierce wrath upon Christ for the sins of all for whom He died, He yet again seeks blood thirsty vengeance upon them for their same sins inspite of Christ!

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Yes I'd like to see where it says that God exercised his wrath on Christ too, because I've never seen it in the Bible either! If we keep wilfully sinning, we pay for it!