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Thread: Ron Paul is pro-choice on abortion, state by state

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by secret33 View Post
    a human life is a person. He defines that as beginning at conception.
    But not fertilization.

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    Conception and fertilization are synonymous.

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    Silver Member drbrumley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    But not fertilization.
    Huh? Are you drinking or something?
    Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, the document we now call "the Constitution" and the Declaration of Independence are not pretty much the same thing or "connected in spirit," or "two sides of the same coin." The two documents were written by two different groups of people at two different times to accomplish two totally different goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by secret33 View Post
    Conception and fertilization are synonymous.
    Not when the liberals have redefined conception as being the moment the fertilized egg implants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Huh? Are you drinking or something?
    I wish. See my post #154.

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    Silver Member drbrumley's Avatar
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    Mr. PAUL. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman for yielding me this time.

    Like many Americans, Mr. Speaker, I am greatly concerned about abortion. Abortion on demand is no doubt the most serious social political problem of our age. The lack of respect for life that permits abortion has significantly contributed to our violent culture and our careless attitude toward liberty.

    As an obstetrician-gynecologist, I can assure my colleagues that the partial-birth abortion procedure is the most egregious legally permitted act known to man. Decaying social and moral attitudes decades ago set the stage for the accommodated Roe vs. Wade ruling that nationalizes all laws dealing with abortion. The fallacious privacy argument the Supreme Court used must some day be exposed for the fraud that it is.

    Reaffirming the importance of the sanctity of life is crucial for the continuation of a civilized society. There is already strong evidence that we are indeed on the slippery slope toward euthanasia and human experimentation. Although the real problem lies within the hearts and minds of the people, the legal problems of protecting life stems from the ill-advised Roe v. Wade ruling, a ruling that constitutionally should never have occurred.

    The best solution, of course, is not now available to us. That would be a Supreme Court that would refuse to deal with the issues of violence, recognizing that for all such acts the Constitution defers to the States. It is constitutionally permitted to limit Federal courts jurisdiction in particular issues. Congress should do precisely that with regard to abortion. It would be a big help in returning this issue to the States.

    H.R. 3660, unfortunately, takes a different approach, and one that is constitutionally flawed. Although H.R. 3660 is poorly written, it does serve as a vehicle to condemn the 1973 Supreme Court usurpation of State law that has legalized the horrible partial-birth abortion procedure.

    Never in the Founders' wildest dreams would they have believed that one day the interstate commerce clause, written to permit free trade among the States, would be used to curtail an act that was entirely under State jurisdiction. There is no interstate activity in an abortion. If there were, that activity would not be prohibited but, rather, protected by the original intent of the interstate commerce clause.

    The abuse of the general welfare clause and the interstate commerce laws clause is precisely the reason our Federal Government no longer conforms to the constitutional dictates but, instead, is out of control in its growth and scope. H.R. 3660 thus endorses the entire process which has so often been condemned by limited government advocates when used by the authoritarians as they constructed the welfare State.

    We should be more serious and cautious when writing Federal law, even when seeking praise-worthy goals. H.R. 3660 could have been written more narrowly, within constitutional constraints, while emphasizing State responsibility, and still serve as an instrument for condemning the wicked partial-birth abortion procedure.
    Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, the document we now call "the Constitution" and the Declaration of Independence are not pretty much the same thing or "connected in spirit," or "two sides of the same coin." The two documents were written by two different groups of people at two different times to accomplish two totally different goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    I wish. See my post #154.
    well, it matters not what a liberal thinks.
    Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, the document we now call "the Constitution" and the Declaration of Independence are not pretty much the same thing or "connected in spirit," or "two sides of the same coin." The two documents were written by two different groups of people at two different times to accomplish two totally different goals.

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    A related application of the principle of double effect is breastfeeding. Breastfeeding greatly suppresses ovulation, but eventually an ovum is released. Luteal phase defect, caused by breastfeeding, makes the uterine lining hostile to implantation and as such may prevent implantation after fertilization

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRASH View Post
    Right here;

    ..nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
    TRUTHSMACK!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PastorKevin View Post
    TRUTHSMACK!
    And exactly how is that any different from what Ron Paul espouses?

    You tell me Kevin or Crash, that if Ron Paul's bill got passed, how would it affect ....nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
    Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, the document we now call "the Constitution" and the Declaration of Independence are not pretty much the same thing or "connected in spirit," or "two sides of the same coin." The two documents were written by two different groups of people at two different times to accomplish two totally different goals.

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    Missouri Libertarian Responds to Bob Enyart

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Enyart View Post
    On today's BEL radio show, I read from the post of a Libertarian Party candidate running for a U.S. House seat in Missouri who criticized me for exposing Ron Paul as being pro-choice, state by state.
    I have responded here to Bob's response to my criticism.
    Kevin Craig
    VFTonline.com
    --------------------------------------------
    And they shall beat their swords into plowshares
    And sit under their Vine & Fig Tree
    Micah 4:1-7

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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    well, it matters not what a liberal thinks.
    It does if they have decided to redefine the meaning of conception so that life is only protected from the moment the fertilized egg implants on the uterine wall.

  13. #163
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    The argument boils down to the glorification of central federal authority or the defense of decentralized government.

    Pro-lifers are rapidly becoming ideologically indistinguishable from the "big government" liberals they criticized for years.

    Paul is a fine, decent, upstanding man and candidate, and almost predictably, he's attracted the ire of Bob Enyart and the rest of the monarchists here. Talk about an unintended badge of honor for the good doctor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granite View Post
    The argument boils down to the glorification of central federal authority or the defense of decentralized government.

    Pro-lifers are rapidly becoming ideologically indistinguishable from the "big government" liberals they criticized for years.
    BZZZT!


    We pro-lifers adamantly supported the recent effort in South Dakota's re-criminalize abortion, and are currently supporting state-level personhood amendments in Colorado and elsewhere.

    But at the same time, we condemn any state law that legitimizes abortion.


    We also condemn the federal government for mandating that abortion should be legal in every state.

    But at the same time, we encourage the federal government to repent and uphold the unborn's God-given and Constitutionally protects right to life.


    Here's how it works:
    Legalizing and regulating abortion: bad.
    Criminalizing abortion: good.
    The level of government doing either: irrelevant.


    Paul is a fine, decent, upstanding man...
    ...said the Satanist.

    No state has the right to legalize and regulate the slaughter of the innocent. Ron Paul doesn't get that, and neither do you.

    If you want to champion states' rights, consider focusing on a "right" that doesn't involve slaughtering the innocent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
    BZZZT!


    We pro-lifers adamantly supported the recent effort in South Dakota's re-criminalize abortion, and are currently supporting state-level personhood amendments in Colorado and elsewhere.

    But at the same time, we condemn any state law that legitimizes abortion.


    We also condemn the federal government for mandating that abortion should be legal in every state.

    But at the same time, we encourage the federal government to repent and uphold the unborn's God-given and Constitutionally protects right to life.


    Here's how it works:
    Legalizing and regulating abortion: bad.
    Criminalizing abortion: good.
    The level of government doing either: irrelevant.



    ...said the Satanist.

    No state has the right to legalize and regulate the slaughter of the innocent. Ron Paul doesn't get that, and neither do you.

    If you want to champion states' rights, consider focusing on a "right" that doesn't involve slaughtering the innocent.
    The efforts in South Dakota in Colorado are admirable and the way the system should work. Federal intervention isn't necessary--unless legislative coercion by the feds appears the only viable solution to some people.

    (For the record I also think C.S. Lewis was a fine upstanding gent as well and that Margaret Sanger was a monster.)
    Last edited by Granite; January 3rd, 2008 at 08:32 AM.
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