The Trinity

The Trinity


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Rosenritter

New member
Perhaps it is like the eternal Son doctrine: Rosenritter never created a TOL account but rather it has always existed and likely even pre-existed Rosenritter, (the 100% human half of Rosenritter). This would likely mean that the eternal TOL account is much superior to your gold account too! (there is probably only one "only begotten uncreated" eternal TOL account). :)

:sheep:

Now I'm lost. At this point it helps to use different names. So in this analogy we might say that Rosenritter is the only begotten account of "R" and that in the beginning, there was Rosenritter, and Rosenritter was with R, and Rosenritter was R.

Speaking as Rosenritter, he might say that "I and R are One" and "if you have seen me, you have seen R." Yet Rosenritter might also say "R is greater than I." Rosenritter can say "There is one R" and he isn't saying that he isn't R, in the sense that counts most, at least.

I'm sure it's not a perfect analogy, but there's bound to be a little confusion when God is being indirect on purpose. If Jesus had "proved" he was God by blasting the Pharisees into component atoms, would they have dared crucify him? And then how would the scriptures be fulfilled?
 

Rosenritter

New member
Pereda+MFA+Budapest.jpg

That picture is creepy enough without Zeus sitting on top of the severed heads of babies.
 

Rosenritter

New member
What are you trying to do with those weird pictures? When God appeared before Israel, first he was within a burning bush, then as a pillar of cloud and of fire, then he spoke to Moses face to face as he would a friend, then to Joshua as Captain of the Lord of Hosts. Not once did he appear in a form like any of those artist's depictions.
 
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Right Divider

Body part
RD, Jesus was not (a separate) Son of God before he was manifest in the flesh. "Son of God" is what you call God when he is manifest in the flesh. You're viewing this with polytheistic lenses. You don't have a "that's what the Bible says" which is why you said that. Had it actually said that you would have provided the passage over two weeks ago.

If you are looking for a "Father and Son" relationship, God is the the Father of Jesus because Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. "God the Father" is the Holy Spirit, for God is a spirit and his name is Holy. Prior to that event, any reference to "Father" (Isaiah 9:6, Christ's name shall be "Everlasting Father") and Son (Psalm 2:12, "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry") was prophetic in reference to that event, rather than present tense.

I'll put something here for you though. If God does not "play parts" then who exactly wrestled Jacob when he fled from Esau his brother? And who was it that identified himself as the "Captain of the Lord of Hosts" that he declared the ground he walked upon to be Holy?
So is it your opinion that God did not become a Father until Jesus was born? Your understanding of the nature of God does NOT match with what the Bible says.

Each of those other appearances are know as a theophany. Feel free to learn about it.

P.S. I did NOT say that God does not "play parts", I said that He does not play roles, like an actor.
 
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Rosenritter

New member
So is it your opinion that God did not become a Father until Jesus was born? Your understanding of the nature of God does NOT match with what the Bible says.

Each of those other appearances are know as a theophany. Feel free to learn about it.

P.S. I did NOT say that God does not "play parts", I said that He does not play roles, like an actor.

First, your phrase "become a father" is just plain strange sounding. But in line with your wording, the gospel says that Adam was the son of God, and that the Word created all things. So Jesus "became a father" back in Genesis. As far as being called Father like a title or name, OTHER THAN WHEN IT IS USED FOR JESUS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, that doesn't start to be used until Jesus is already walking the earth.

Second, you didn't wait for the answer before replying.

Third, you did the whole "you are wrong" statement without any proof again. The "full of hot air" metaphor comes to mind. Show something or withdraw your objection please.

Fourth, there isn't a difference between playing parts and playing roles. They are synonyms. We could break out a dictionary if necessary.
 

Right Divider

Body part
First, your phrase "become a father" is just plain strange sounding. But in line with your wording, the gospel says that Adam was the son of God, and that the Word created all things. So Jesus "became a father" back in Genesis. As far as being called Father like a title or name, OTHER THAN WHEN IT IS USED FOR JESUS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, that doesn't start to be used until Jesus is already walking the earth.
Adam is not the "son of God" in the SAME sense as Jesus, but that's obvious, right?

Every sort of heretic on TOL always resorts to THAT tactic, Jesus is NOT like ANY of those "sons of God".
John 3:16 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:16) ¶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

"Only begotten" is monogenes which is a compound word starting with MONO means ONLY (i.e., as in ONE AND ONLY).

Second, you didn't wait for the answer before replying.
:shocked:

Third, you did the whole "you are wrong" statement without any proof again. The "full of hot air" metaphor comes to mind. Show something or withdraw your objection please.
:shocked:

Fourth, there isn't a difference between playing parts and playing roles. They are synonyms. We could break out a dictionary if necessary.[/QUOTE]
God does neither, so there.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Adam is not the "son of God" in the SAME sense as Jesus, but that's obvious, right?

Every sort of heretic on TOL always resorts to THAT tactic, Jesus is NOT like ANY of those "sons of God".
John 3:16 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:16) ¶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

"Only begotten" is monogenes which is a compound word starting with MONO means ONLY (i.e., as in ONE AND ONLY).


:shocked:


:shocked:

Fourth, there isn't a difference between playing parts and playing roles. They are synonyms. We could break out a dictionary if necessary.
God does neither, so there.

Taking inventory of your response, that's one straw man attack, two little emoticons, and yet another "so there you're wrong" statement without support.

You asked when God became "a father" didn't you? You didn't ask when "The Father" became his designation. Because you tend to be rather antagonistic and accusatory I'm required to answer with precision.

Regardless, your attack was pretty stupid considering nothing was said concerning the designation of "begotten." Did you ask "When did God became a father by begetting?" If that was your question, I'd place that about 2000 years ago, as recorded in the gospel accounts,

Luke 1:34-35 KJV
(34) Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(35) And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

=> But did you get that? The angel himself gave the answer for our question. THEREFORE ... (which means for that reason) ... that holy thing (Jesus) shall be called the Son of God. Not for another reason, but for the reason that Mary was impregnated by the Holy Ghost.

Mary was not impregnated by the Holy Ghost before, was she? Therefore... no "eternal Son of God." It is a designation that is dependent upon condition and circumstance, presentation, if you will. Don't argue with me on this, take up your objection with the archangel Gabriel. Or the Holy Ghost that inspired the gospel, take your pick.

So at that point a designation between "Father" and "Son of God" became applicable. If you try to change the question again back to "when did God become a father" I will again point back to Genesis through Luke 3:38,

Luke 3:38 KJV
(38) Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

=>
Though I suppose if you want to get technical, we might even go a few days before that with the creation of angels, which were present at the creation of Adam already.

Job 38:6-7 KJV
(6) Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
(7) When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Hebrews 12:9 KJV
(9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

=> So taking a guess at the precise time of the angels' creation, perhaps God was "a father" as early back as Day Four of the creation week.

* * *

Does it frustrate you having nothing to say but "you're wrong" over and over while receiving answers from scripture? My mental image of you is of someone whose face is glowing red while his eyes bulge out as he stabs his fingers at the well worn keys that spell out "You're wrong."
 

Right Divider

Body part
Taking inventory of your response, that's one straw man attack, two little emoticons, and yet another "so there you're wrong" statement without support.
That was not a "straw man 'attack'". Blah blah blah.

You asked when God became "a father" didn't you? You didn't ask when "The Father" became his designation. Because you tend to be rather antagonistic and accusatory I'm required to answer with precision.
I can see that you are a committed heretic, so I'll leave you to your "one god" that is not the God of the Bible.

Regardless, your attack was pretty stupid considering nothing was said concerning the designation of "begotten." Did you ask "When did God became a father by begetting?" If that was your question, I'd place that about 2000 years ago, as recorded in the gospel accounts,
The Word was made flesh. The Word was God. Jesus is BOTH God and Man. All in the Bible, go look it up.

Luke 1:34-35 KJV
(34) Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(35) And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

=> But did you get that? The angel himself gave the answer for our question. THEREFORE ... (which means for that reason) ... that holy thing (Jesus) shall be called the Son of God. Not for another reason, but for the reason that Mary was impregnated by the Holy Ghost.
The three are one. That's no problem for me.

Mary was not impregnated by the Holy Ghost before, was she? Therefore... no "eternal Son of God." It is a designation that is dependent upon condition and circumstance, presentation, if you will. Don't argue with me on this, take up your objection with the archangel Gabriel. Or the Holy Ghost that inspired the gospel, take your pick.
Jesus calls Himself "I AM". When did He become God?

So at that point a designation between "Father" and "Son of God" became applicable. If you try to change the question again back to "when did God become a father" I will again point back to Genesis through Luke 3:38,

Luke 3:38 KJV
(38) Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

=>
Though I suppose if you want to get technical, we might even go a few days before that with the creation of angels, which were present at the creation of Adam already.
Was Adam God?

Job 38:6-7 KJV
(6) Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
(7) When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Hebrews 12:9 KJV
(9) Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

=> So taking a guess at the precise time of the angels' creation, perhaps God was "a father" as early back as Day Four of the creation week.
The Father/Son are BOTH eternal.

Does it frustrate you having nothing to say but "you're wrong" over and over while receiving answers from scripture? My mental image of you is of someone whose face is glowing red while his eyes bulge out as he stabs his fingers at the well worn keys that spell out "You're wrong."
Your mental image of many things is wrong, so why should your mental image of me be any different.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Your answers aren't following the conversation exactly.

1. Being "anointed with the Holy Ghost and with power" does not mean "possessed." Before Jesus was born David was anointed with the Spirit of the LORD (see 1 Samuel 16:13) ... so was David possessed as well?


What POWER do you think he got?


He got the POWER of the express image, the son that God used to created all, the son that was given the fullness of the Father. The spirit son, the Miltha.
 

Rosenritter

New member
That was not a "straw man 'attack'". Blah blah blah.


I can see that you are a committed heretic, so I'll leave you to your "one god" that is not the God of the Bible.


The Word was made flesh. The Word was God. Jesus is BOTH God and Man. All in the Bible, go look it up.


The three are one. That's no problem for me.


Jesus calls Himself "I AM". When did He become God?


Was Adam God?


The Father/Son are BOTH eternal.


Your mental image of many things is wrong, so why should your mental image of me be any different.

I see that you just scrapped the angel of the gospel to preserve your "Eternal Son" theory. Also noticed your misquote of I John 5:7, it rather reads "These three are one" not "The Three" are one. There is a difference, that's why you prefer your way.

More tilting at windmills as you attack conjured phantom arguments...

Interlaced with more trash talk and again, lack of support. Don't you tire of this and long to give honest participation?

"Was Adam God?" seriously, RD? Yet he is called the son of God in the geneology, so you could consider Him as "a father" on that day. I am just answering the question you asked. Stay on topic RD.
 

Right Divider

Body part
I see that you just scrapped the angel of the gospel to preserve your "Eternal Son" theory.
I have no idea what you're getting at here.

Also noticed your misquote of I John 5:7, it rather reads "These three are one" not "The Three" are one. There is a difference, that's why you prefer your way.
Oh my poor, little pedantic one. Which post was it? I will repair that post so as to make it perfect for you. (The only post is see [http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?115654-The-Trinity&p=4779422&viewfull=1#post4779422] does NOT have three capitalized).

Regarding the "Eternal Son', that's just what the Bible teaches. I'm not going to try to change it to fit your mood.

More tilting at windmills as you attack conjured phantom arguments...

Interlaced with more trash talk and again, lack of support. Don't you tire of this and long to give honest participation?

"Was Adam God?" seriously, RD? Yet he is called the son of God in the geneology, so you could consider Him as "a father" on that day. I am just answering the question you asked. Stay on topic RD.
Again I'll ask: Was Adam God?

Because Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son. That is because He IS GOD.

John 1:1-3 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (1:2) The same was in the beginning with God. (1:3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Who is "the Word"?

If you cannot understand the various ways in which the term "son of God" is used, then that will continue to be a problem for you.
 

lifeisgood

New member
Anyone can do those things if they want to do them.

You do understand that we are talking about SALVATION, right?

You say you have to do all that while you are a UNbeliever and AFTER you do all those things THEN and ONLY then, will Jesus save you; therefore, nullifying Christ Jesus' finished legal work on the Cross of Calvary, because it is all about you and nothing about Him.

Yeah, I know you refuse to understand.
 
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