Hell Is Real.

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COGTHW

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nikolai_42 said:
He was baptized with John's baptism - yes. But that is not the same thing as "in whose name?". John's baptism was one thing, Jesus' baptism was another :

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Matthew 3:11

We aren't saved by John. We ARE saved by Jesus - and it isn't water that saves us. That's why this is important. John's baptism was more or less ceremonial. It was important as a witness, yes, but it wasn't salvific.

John's baptism was a baptism of repentance :

Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Matthew 3:5-8

The Pharisees wanted to be baptized but John was saying they were missing the critical part of baptism - repentance. It was a ceremonial declaration of being clean. John prepared the way for Jesus.
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If Jesus did it then you do it. That the devil in your ear saying you don't have to do it. DO IT ALL.!! If the book say He sang SONGS ALL DAY DO IT ALL.!!
Acts 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
ALL THAT JESUS BEGAN TO DO.!! Do it stop fighting it. You love the Scriptures.? Do it... You like fighting back and forth with the Scriptures, then do it. You not fight me you are fighting God.
 
C

COGTHW

New member
nikolai_42 said:
That scripture says NOT cleansing (the putting away of the filth) but the answer of a good conscience. NOT actual cleansing.
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The Scriptures are saying what you are doing, you think just saying ok I'm good I'm living for God is ok. I get on here TOL and think I can use Scriptures. That is what it is talking about, it's talking about you. You are putting away, but haven't WASHED AWAY.!! Hallelujah glory to God. Scriptures say you are dirty, caught me in the Holy Ghost. You are dirty in God eyes, but you trying to hide your musk by saying oh Lord oh Lord. My God I love you tonight. You gotta take a SHOWER SIR.!! YOU GOTTA PUT ON JESUS CHRIST. Not put away for flesh but put on Christ
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
COGTHW said:
The Scriptures are saying what you are doing, you think just saying ok I'm good I'm living for God is ok. I get on here TOL and think I can use Scriptures. That is what it is talking about, it's talking about you. You are putting away, but haven't WASHED AWAY.!! Hallelujah glory to God. Scriptures say you are dirty, caught me in the Holy Ghost. You are dirty in God eyes, but you trying to hide your musk by saying oh Lord oh Lord. My God I love you tonight. You gotta take a SHOWER SIR.!! YOU GOTTA PUT ON JESUS CHRIST. Not put away for flesh but put on Christ
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So when it suits you, refer to the scriptures. Then when they don't say what you want them to say, start preaching? The scripture you quoted clearly says it isn't baptism that cleanses you. Not only that but other verses (such as I John 1:7) state (clearly, too) that the blood of Christ cleanses us from sin. I am in no way (nor have I ever) spoken against getting baptized. But if someone is trusting in that baptism to save them, then they are at best missing the point and at worst no different than the Pharisees who not only rejected the baptism but rejected the repentance that was the whole point of the baptism (Matthew 3:6).
 
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C

COGTHW

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nikolai_42 said:
So when it suits you, refer to the scriptures. Then when they don't say what you want them to say, start preaching? The scripture you quoted clearly says it isn't baptism that cleanses you. Not only that but other verses (such as I John 1:7) state (clearly, too) that the blood of Christ cleanses us from sin. I am in no way (nor have I ever) spoken against getting baptized. But if someone is trusting in that baptism to save them, then they are at best missing the point and at worst no different than the Pharisees who not only rejected the baptism but rejected the repentance that was the whole point of the baptism (Matthew 3:6).
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I believe in ALL Scriptures. Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

It's you that don't believe in ALL Scriptures.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

ALL SCRIPTURES, HALLELUJAH JESUS ALL SCRIPTURES. Some Lord.? ALL SCRIPTURES.!!
It's you that say the water don't clean. ALL SCRIPTURES SAY THE WATER CLEAN. It's you that say water is ok but don't have to. ALL SCRIPTURES SAY BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD. It's you that say only the blood, ALL SCRIPTURES SAY ITS THE SPIRIT,WATER AND THE BLOOD. I believe ALL, you believe in some.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
COGTHW said:
I believe in ALL Scriptures. Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

It's you that don't believe in ALL Scriptures.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

ALL SCRIPTURES, HALLELUJAH JESUS ALL SCRIPTURES. Some Lord.? ALL SCRIPTURES.!!
It's you that say the water don't clean. ALL SCRIPTURES SAY THE WATER CLEAN. It's you that say water is ok but don't have to. ALL SCRIPTURES SAY BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD. It's you that say only the blood, ALL SCRIPTURES SAY ITS THE SPIRIT,WATER AND THE BLOOD. I believe ALL, you believe in some.
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QED
 
C

COGTHW

New member
Nonon said:
why do you keep using 1 john 5:8 incorrectly? those verses have nothing to do with the believers baptism. it is exclusively referring to everything about jesus. in other words faith in jesus. verse 6 states HIS baptism and HIS crucifixon and the spirit is the one whom testifies which can be implied its because you believe in his baptism and his crucifixion. 1 john 5:8 is saying the water/blood/spirit can't be separated. idk about you but i dont wanna be crucified!!!
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Paul say WE DIE DAILY.!!! GLORY.!! HALLELUJAH.!! Romans 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. ' FOR JESUS SAKE I DIE DAILY.!! You need to seek God sir/ma'am. If you don't wanna suffer for Christ you don't want Him. I suffer for Christ sake.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

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COGTHW said:
You need to seek God.
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It's you that needs to read/study the writings of the Apostle Paul and pray that the Holy Spirit will give you knowledge and wisdom regarding how to become a member of The Body of Christ. Right now, you're in bad shape, Spiritually speaking. You need to become a Child of God by reading the Gospel and placing all your faith in Christ as your Savior. I'll pray for you, as well.
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
COGTHW said:
You must be born of water and Spirit. Jesus ain't say you must be born of His words. If He did it woulda just said just that. Beacuse His words are Spirit. He said be born of water and Spirit. John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. ; He said WATER.!! Not words.
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As Nikolai_42 has already pointed out, it mentions the washing of the water by the word in Ephesians 5, so clearly water is associated with the word of God. Then there's the rivers of living water, which is the holy spirit and the spirit is the rivers of living water, because it's ever moving, flowing, and delivers the fresh word of God, from God direct to the heart. Teaching us, guiding us, and reproving us and giving us wisdom understanding and strength to overcome. Making us alive and waking us up out of darkness to walk in the light and see, hear and know God. Natural water cleanses the outside and keeps us alive when we drink it, as does the water of the word when we take it in, spiritually it keeps us alive, refreshes us and it cleanses us on the inside and then on the outside so others see the life of Christ through us as we live by the word of God through Christ Jesus.

Natural water can't save anyone, water baptism is symbolic and shows that we are repentant and that we are willing to give our lives to God. But once we hear the word and believe, to be truly alive in God we must be born again of the spirit, so that through Christ, the spirit can help us overcome, bringing us the love of God direct into our hearts helping us to overcome sin, putting to death hardness, spite, hatred, wickedness, cruelty, envy and all kinds of evil with the pure love of God by the washing of the word by the holy spirit within, we will then show the fruits of the spirit as we live to please God and bring his love to all those that we meet.

Jesus taught us to deny ourselves, and when we are born of the spirit, the spirit teaches us and shows us what we are doing wrong in our lives and he will prick our conscience so that we know what we are doing is wrong before God, we should then turn away and deny sin, so that we please our heavenly father. Jesus came the perfect example showing us how to live before God and how to overcome evil with good, he came and showed us how to overcome Satan with the love of God and he did so right up until his last breath. He overcame the devil and the world and he will strengthen those who truly follow him to do the same by the power of the holy spirit of God.
 
C

COGTHW

New member
marhig said:
As Nikolai_42 has already pointed out, it mentions the washing of the water by the word in Ephesians 5, so clearly water is associated with the word of God. Then there's the rivers of living water, which is the holy spirit and the spirit is the rivers of living water, because it's ever moving, flowing, and delivers the fresh word of God, from God direct to the heart. Teaching us, guiding us, and reproving us and giving us wisdom understanding and strength to overcome. Making us alive and waking us up out of darkness to walk in the light and see, hear and know God. Natural water cleanses the outside and keeps us alive when we drink it, as does the water of the word when we take it in, spiritually it keeps us alive, refreshes us and it cleanses us on the inside and then on the outside so others see the life of Christ through us as we live by the word of God through Christ Jesus.

Natural water can't save anyone, water baptism is symbolic and shows that we are repentant and that we are willing to give our lives to God. But once we hear the word and believe, to be truly alive in God we must be born again of the spirit, so that through Christ, the spirit can help us overcome, bringing us the love of God direct into our hearts helping us to overcome sin, putting to death hardness, spite, hatred, wickedness, cruelty, envy and all kinds of evil with the pure love of God by the washing of the word by the holy spirit within, we will then show the fruits of the spirit as we live to please God and bring his love to all those that we meet.

Jesus taught us to deny ourselves, and when we are born of the spirit, the spirit teaches us and shows us what we are doing wrong in our lives and he will prick our conscience so that we know what we are doing is wrong before God, we should then turn away and deny sin, so that we please our heavenly father. Jesus came the perfect example showing us how to live before God and how to overcome evil with good, he came and showed us how to overcome Satan with the love of God and he did so right up until his last breath. He overcame the devil and the world and he will strengthen those who truly follow him to do the same by the power of the holy spirit of God.
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That is wrong beacuse if it was so people would just go around saying I'm said by His words. The Scriptures say you were born in sin. Lamentation 5:7 Our fathers have sinned, and are not; and we have borne their iniquities.
You have to wash that sin off if not you are not going to heaven. If believers where clean by "words" why did Jesus go preach in Paradise.?? No you are not saved by words. You are washed by water. Nikola42 ain't have one Scripture that said that. But I do. 1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Not washed of words but in. You can't be in words, you are of words. But you can be in water GLORY TO GOD.! So do the Scriptures say you are saved by words or water. Words or water.? If so we need Scriptures that say "you are saved by words" and I get Scripture that say we are saved by water and Spirit. Or just water.
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
COGTHW said:
That is wrong beacuse if it was so people would just go around saying I'm said by His words. The Scriptures say you were born in sin. Lamentation 5:7 Our fathers have sinned, and are not; and we have borne their iniquities.
You have to wash that sin off if not you are not going to heaven. If believers where clean by "words" why did Jesus go preach in Paradise.?? No you are not saved by words. You are washed by water. Nikola42 ain't have one Scripture that said that. But I do. 1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Not washed of words but in. You can't be in words, you are of words. But you can be in water GLORY TO GOD.! So do the Scriptures say you are saved by words or water. Words or water.? If so we need Scriptures that say "you are saved by words" and I get Scripture that say we are saved by water and Spirit. Or just water.
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The word of God does save, and the water is the word of God. And the holy spirit is the rivers of living water because he brings the word of God fresh and living from God straight to the hearts of those who are born anew.

Ephesians 5

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word

John 4

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 7

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Revelation 21

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 22

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Revelation 7

For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.


Romans 1

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek

1 Corinthians 15

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;* By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

The gospel is the word of God, and the gospel is called the gospel of salvation because the word of God saves those who believe!
 
C

COGTHW

New member
marhig said:
The word of God does save, and the water is the word of God. And the holy spirit is the rivers of living water because he brings the word of God fresh and living from God straight to the hearts of those who are born anew.

Ephesians 5

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word

John 4

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 7

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Revelation 21

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 22

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Revelation 7

For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.


Romans 1

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek

1 Corinthians 15

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;* By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

The gospel is the word of God, and the gospel is called the gospel of salvation because the word of God saves those who believe!
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John 3:Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
By water and Spirit. Not Spirit but water and Spirit. Ask God. You say you believe in His word. Ask Him.
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
COGTHW said:
John 3:Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
By water and Spirit. Not Spirit but water and Spirit. Ask God. You say you believe in His word. Ask Him.
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And I believe that, we have to first hear the word of God and then receive the holy spirit.

How can natural water wash away sins? It naturally washes away dirt and it's a picture of the word of God cleansing the heart.
 
C

COGTHW

New member
marhig said:
And I believe that, we have to first hear the word of God and then receive the holy spirit.

How can natural water wash away sins? It naturally washes away dirt and it's a picture of the word of God cleansing the heart.
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Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; ; Scriptures say He saved us by baptism in the name of Jesus Christ and in filling of the Holy Ghost. That is Scripture you are saved only by baptism AND getting the Holy Ghost. So who is right you or the Scriptures.?
 
jamie

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
marhig said:
How can natural water wash away sins?
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It doesn't. Baptism is simply a demarcation in a person's life. The old person is buried and the new person is resurrected to walk with their Savior.

Baptism, like marriage, is a demonstration before witnesses of a person's commitment. Baptism is a commitment to be faithful to God, marriage is a commitment to be faithful to a spouse.

Of course today many people are reluctant to commit to anything.

Marriage is a relationship, not a ceremony. Baptism is a relationship, not a ceremony.
 
Crucible

Crucible

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I don't think not being baptized necessarily sends one to Hell, though I find it to be something very essential for the believer.
One thing to keep in mind is that God's ordinances are not for Him but for us- they are gifts.
 
Nick M

Nick M

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jamie said:
Jesus was talking to a grown man, the fact that Nicodemus was born of woman was a given. What Jesus told Nicodemus was he must be born again by water and the Spirit.

Flesh and blood cannot enter the Father's kingdom.

If you bleed you are not yet born again.
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What does this have to do with what born of water means? Water and Spirit are two different things.

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
 
Nick M

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
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COGTHW said:
Show where it says JUST THAT.! 'When they were baptized they where born of a woman.' In the Scriptures. And I will show you where it say in the Scriptures you must be born of water. No COMMENTARYS or website. You need to know that book for yourself.
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5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Born of Spirit is resurrection in a glorified body. So far, only one has done it. He came and went without people knowing where he came from or where he went. He vanished from their sight. It is in the Bible, since you seem confused.

7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

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COGTHW said:
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; ; Scriptures say He saved us by baptism in the name of Jesus Christ and in filling of the Holy Ghost. That is Scripture you are saved only by baptism AND getting the Holy Ghost. So who is right you or the Scriptures.?
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God saved us by the washing of regeneration (2 Cor 5:17), and here that new creation is presented under the figure of a bath. It is the same figure used by the Lord Jesus when He taught the disciples that there is only one bath of regeneration but many necessary cleansing from defilement (John 13:10). That bath of regeneration has nothing to do with baptism. It is not a bodily cleansing with water, but a moral cleansing by the Word of God (John 15:3). Baptism is not even a symbol of this bath; but rather depicts burial with Christ into death (Rom. 6:4).
Our new birth is also spoken of as a renewing of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God brings about a marvelous transformation-not putting new clothes on the old man, but putting new man in the clothes! The Holy Spirit is the Agent of regeneration and the Word of God is the instrument. Believer's Bible Commentary
 
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