Paul said What??

Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 17, 2016

What in the world is Paul Saying here?

Philippians 3:

4 though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more:
5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee;
6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.
7 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—
10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

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Epoisses · Jul 17, 2016

According to the Jewish religion of the 1st century Paul was a Pharisee of the Pharisees. Showing that if righteousness came by the law he was guaranteed a spot in heaven. Unfortunately righteousness comes by faith so all his works of the flesh were meaningless in the eyes of a holy and just God. Righteousness comes by faith meaning it is outside and above everything we have on earth. If you look in the mirror you wont see it.

Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 18, 2016

Epoisses said:
According to the Jewish religion of the 1st century Paul was a Pharisee of the Pharisees. Showing that if righteousness came by the law he was guaranteed a spot in heaven. Unfortunately righteousness comes by faith so all his works of the flesh were meaningless in the eyes of a holy and just God. Righteousness comes by faith meaning it is outside and above everything we have on earth. If you look in the mirror you wont see it.

Excellent OP reply! So, since I think your OK

, what the weisenheimer did Paul mean in verses 7 and 8? Count it all loss?

daqq · Jul 18, 2016

Saul was fully trained up in all the WORKS OF THE LAW and came to the realization through Messiah and his Testimony that it was all based on carnal, physical, and fleshly interpretations of what is truly a holy and supernal Torah which is Spirit; and it always was, and always will be.

Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 18, 2016

daqq said:
Saul was fully trained up in all the WORKS OF THE LAW and came to the realization through Messiah and his Testimony that it was all based on carnal, physical, and fleshly interpretations of what is truly a holy and supernal Torah which is Spirit; and it always was, and always will be.

If you are tying that to the provision of Christ and It's jarring way of showing our need for God, through Jesus, I'm in.

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Ben Masada · Jul 18, 2016

Epoisses said:
According to the Jewish religion of the 1st century Paul was a Pharisee of the Pharisees. Showing that if righteousness came by the law he was guaranteed a spot in heaven. Unfortunately righteousness comes by faith so all his works of the flesh were meaningless in the eyes of a holy and just God. Righteousness comes by faith meaning it is outside and above everything we have on earth. If you look in the mirror you wont see it.

Sorry but I disagree with you. Paul was a Pharisee of Pharisees, not according to the Jewish religion but to his own word which did not show much credibility. Paul was a Hellenist and, Pharisees would never accept a Hellenist in their Yeshivas. And regarding righteousness it does come by the Law. Evidence? Commit a crime and excuse yourself before the Judge that you acted by faith and you will get to understand the righteousness that comes by the Law. If you had not broken the Law, you would not even need to appear before the Judge as the Judge is not there in Court for the righteous but for the criminals.

Epoisses · Jul 19, 2016

Ben Masada said:
Sorry but I disagree with you. Paul was a Pharisee of Pharisees, not according to the Jewish religion but to his own word which did not show much credibility. Paul was a Hellenist and, Pharisees would never accept a Hellenist in their Yeshivas. And regarding righteousness it does come by the Law. Evidence? Commit a crime and excuse yourself before the Judge that you acted by faith and you will get to understand the righteousness that comes by the Law. If you had not broken the Law, you would not even need to appear before the Judge as the Judge is not there in Court for the righteous but for the criminals.

Yes the law condemns us as sinners but it doesn't forgive and it doesn't save. The glaring hole in your getting righteousness out of the law theory. You need grace to be forgiven and you need grace to be saved. Sucks to be a graceless reprobate like you!

Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 19, 2016

Ben Masada said:
Sorry but I disagree with you. Paul was a Pharisee of Pharisees, not according to the Jewish religion but to his own word which did not show much credibility. Paul was a Hellenist and, Pharisees would never accept a Hellenist in their Yeshivas. And regarding righteousness it does come by the Law. Evidence? Commit a crime and excuse yourself before the Judge that you acted by faith and you will get to understand the righteousness that comes by the Law. If you had not broken the Law, you would not even need to appear before the Judge as the Judge is not there in Court for the righteous but for the criminals.

What if someone stepped in and took my sentence for me?

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Nick M · Jul 19, 2016

He is saying his best is no better than dog poop.

Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 20, 2016

Nick M said:
He is saying his best is no better than dog poop.

Not only is that poetic, it is an excellent summary of the entire matter!

And, I admit it, I laughed.

But seriously, spot on.

It'll be hard to wipe that truth from my shoe.

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jamie · Jul 20, 2016

Nameless.In.Grace said:
What if someone stepped in and took my sentence for me?

That required a new testament, the old one prohibited that kind of thing.

Ben Masada · Jul 20, 2016

Epoisses said:
Yes the law condemns us as sinners but it doesn't forgive and it doesn't save. The glaring hole in your getting righteousness out of the law theory. You need grace to be forgiven and you need grace to be saved. Sucks to be a graceless reprobate like you!

No, the Law saves us if we allow it. We must understand though, that the Law is not a being with Freewill. The will to be saved from the consequences of breaking the Law is in ourselves. If we use it to obey the Law, we are saved; if we use it to transgress the Law, we will be in great trouble, and no grace whatsoever is gonna prevent that.

Ben Masada · Jul 20, 2016

Nameless.In.Grace said:
What if someone stepped in and took my sentence for me?

~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

Nowhere this is possible. Neither before a human judge nor according to the Divine Decalogue. Read Ezekiel 18:3 "Only the one who sins shall die." Jesus was a learned Jew and he knew his own gospel aka the Tanach. Were Jesus alive today he would definitely know why he had been crucified.

Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 20, 2016

Paul said What??

jamie said:
That required a new testament, the old one prohibited that kind of thing.

Aha, but I do believe that the story of Noah's ark is more than truth, it is a picture of Jesus.

Jesus is the ark.

Jesus is the cloak of Jacob that he wore before his bind Father. It even talks about new wine and grain in that story.

Jesus is the red cord of the first born.

Jesus is David counting coo with Saul.

Jesus is the temple of Solomon.

Second born people in the OT are always getting the first born' inheritance.

Jesus is the red cord of Rahabs window.

Jesus is the staff of Moses that is raised to perform miracles.

Jesus was the rock that Moses struck.

Jesus was the snake on the staff taking the curse of the Israelites.

Jesus is Adam taking the sin of his wife, though Jesus never sinned.

Jesus is the foot on the servants head.

Jesus is the kinsman redeemer.

Jesus was the blood above the door posts.

In all that Jesus light, wasn't the atonement sacrifice symbolic of such things, or more specifically, Jesus?

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Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 20, 2016

Ben Masada said:
Nowhere this is possible. Neither before a human judge nor according to the Divine Decalogue. Read Ezekiel 18:3 "Only the one who sins shall die." Jesus was a learned Jew and he knew his own gospel aka the Tanach. Were Jesus alive today he would definitely know why he had been crucified.

What was the meaning of the Atonement sacrifice, per Moses?

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WonderfulLordJesus · Jul 20, 2016

This is just a wild guess, as to verses 7 and 8. However unlikely some of you may find this, it could be that Paul found in the Lord Jesus, beginning with a blinding light and voice out of nowhere, the One who offers eternal life, a way to get to know the glory of God, be a friend of and learn of the Creator of the vast universe, learn the mind of that Almighty God of creation, and go on to glory, to live, forever, in the beauty of His paradise, the joy of knowing all things wonderful and glorious the Lord Jesus offers His, knowing the very God he only previously had read about.

So, here's the point. I'm thinking Paul probably found this more compelling, than sitting around with a bunch of other vainglorious Pharisees only a mother could love, discussing what to do about the pidgeon crap problem around the booths outside the temple, or what nasty things they could do to people preaching the horrors of God's love and grace, choking on road dust, trying to roundup Christians, looking forward to, after that, dying and going to hell. I mean, who would give up all that, for Jesus?

WonderfulLordJesus · Jul 20, 2016

Nameless.In.Grace said:
Aha, but I do believe that the story of Noah's ark is more that truth, it is a picture of Jesus.

Jesus is the ark.

Jesus is the cloak of Jacob that he wore before his bind Father. It even talks about new wine and grain in that story.

Jesus is the red cord of the first born.

Jesus is David counting coo with Saul.

Jesus is the temple of Solomon.

Second born people in the OT are always getting the first born' inheritance.

Jesus is the red cord of Rahabs window.

Jesus is the staff of Moses that is raised to perform miracles.

Jesus was the rock that Moses struck.

Jesus was the snake on the staff taking the curse of the Israelites.

Jesus is Adam taking the sin of his wife, though Jesus never sinned.

Jesus is the foot on the servants head.

Jesus is the kinsman redeemer.

Jesus was the blood above the door posts.

In all that Jesus light, wasn't the atonement sacrifice symbolic of such things, or more specifically, Jesus?

Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

As I once heard a fine preacher say in a sermon, "The Bible is Jesus Christ, cover to cover." The Isaac sacrifice scene and "My son, God will provide himself a lamb..." and, as you point out, the blood on the doorposts, placement of which makes the sign of the cross, incidentally: the only way Christ doesn't stick out like a sore thumb, throughout scripture, is due to spiritully dead men being spiritually blind, which is a personal problem, not one of God's clear word and what is very evident, but that which God must allow people to see.

Nick M · Jul 20, 2016

Nameless.In.Grace said:
And, I admit it, I laughed. ��

But seriously, spot on.

It just happens to be what he said. Said another way, your life outside of Christ is dog poop. Good thing my life is hidden in Christ. He didn't say "refuse" or "garbage" as some versions say. He said dog doodie. And likely the white kind.

Ben Masada · Jul 20, 2016

WonderfulLordJesus said:
This is just a wild guess, as to verses 7 and 8. However unlikely some of you may find this, it could be that Paul found in the Lord Jesus, beginning with a blinding light and voice out of nowhere, the One who offers eternal life, a way to get to know the glory of God, be a friend of and learn of the Creator of the vast universe, learn the mind of that Almighty God of creation, and go on to glory, to live, forever, in the beauty of His paradise, the joy of knowing all things wonderful and glorious the Lord Jesus offers His, knowing the very God he only previously had read about.

So, here's the point. I'm thinking Paul probably found this more compelling, than sitting around with a bunch of other vainglorious Pharisees only a mother could love, discussing what to do about the pidgeon crap problem around the booths outside the temple, or what nasty things they could do to people preaching the horrors of God's love and grace, choking on road dust, trying to roundup Christians, looking forward to, after that, dying and going to hell. I mean, who would give up all that, for Jesus?

This post of yours above only proves that you have no idea what a Pharisee was: Rich professors of the Law and owners of Yeshivas where they used to teach young Jews to be masters and Rabbis; most time for no payment at all from poor young men who proved intensive vocation for the profession. Evidence? Jesus.

Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 20, 2016

WonderfulLordJesus said:
This is just a wild guess, as to verses 7 and 8. However unlikely some of you may find this, it could be that Paul found in the Lord Jesus, beginning with a blinding light and voice out of nowhere, the One who offers eternal life, a way to get to know the glory of God, be a friend of and learn of the Creator of the vast universe, learn the mind of that Almighty God of creation, and go on to glory, to live, forever, in the beauty of His paradise, the joy of knowing all things wonderful and glorious the Lord Jesus offers His, knowing the very God he only previously had read about.

So, here's the point. I'm thinking Paul probably found this more compelling, than sitting around with a bunch of other vainglorious Pharisees only a mother could love, discussing what to do about the pidgeon crap problem around the booths outside the temple, or what nasty things they could do to people preaching the horrors of God's love and grace, choking on road dust, trying to roundup Christians, looking forward to, after that, dying and going to hell. I mean, who would give up all that, for Jesus?

Amen!!!

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Paul said What??

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