The Trinity

Rosenritter said:

Would you bathe in the filthy river Jordan to be cured of leprosy?

If so, would you obey Jesus and accept his death as payment for your sins? Because that is what HE said he requires. Drink his blood and eat his flesh, he said.

John 6:54-61 KJV
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. [56] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. [57] As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. [58] This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. [59] These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. [60] Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this , said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? [61] When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

Does that work for showing by the Bible?

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achduke said:

Your above reasoning is more clear to me than a trinity. A trinity does not explain the 7 spirits of God. The term Son of God or Children of God can also be anyone filled with the Holy Spirit. I believe Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit. It gets more difficult defining who is the Holy Spirit, the WORD, the 7 Spirits and the Spirit of the LORD. Are they the same? Are they different? Some verses say the Holy Spirit does not teach on his own authority but instead on the authority of the Father.

Here are some passages of the 7 spirits that are not defined well in the trinity.

Revelation 1:4 John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,

Revelation 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Revelation 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead

Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Zechariah 3:8-10 8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH. 9 For behold [/Bthe stone that I have laid before Joshua]; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. 10 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.

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Rosenritter said:

Not exactly exactly. He was without sin.

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Notaclue said:

Is.11:2. And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;


The LORD, Wisdom, Understanding, Counsel, Might, Knowledge and Fear of the Lord........ All have a Spirit.


Rev.5:6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.


Rev.5:12. saying with a loud voice,
“Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.”


Rev.5:6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb


The Lamb is of the four beasts


There is the eye opener!


Peace.

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jamie said:

Jesus was without sin because he had a Helper to resist sin.

Hebrews 9:14 "how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God..."

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marhig said:

Is he talking about eating his natural flesh and drinking his natural blood?

And can you show me where Jesus said i have to accept his death on the cross as payment for my sins. I've seen him saying that believing in him and having faith saves.

BTW, I'm going to be busy today, so I'm not being ignorant of I don't answer. I'll answer anything else later

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Rosenritter said:

...he WAS the eternal spirit manifested in the flesh.

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marhig said:

And you need to realise that Jesus also calls God his God, and his brethren are his brethren not his sons. Even after the resurrection.

And even the apostles call God the God of Jesus. And Jesus said, without the father he could do nothing he also said why call me good when there was none good but God. He clearly shows right through the gospels that God is his God and father and that he is the son. God exalted Jesus, why would God exhalt Jesus if Jesus is already God. It would make no sense. It also says that God has set Jesus at his right hand, why? Why would God do that, if Jesus was God also? God wouldn't have to set him anywhere because Jesus would be God. And why is Christ under subjection to God if he is God. I can't just let go, because to me it's clear that Jesus isn't the almighty God. It's as clear as day, I can't see how others can't see it.

Jesus said, life eternal is this, that we should know THE ONE TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ WHOM HE HAS SENT.

And that's exactly how I see it and that's what I believe, i know the one true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent.

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jamie said:

Christ relinquished his immortal life so he could die for sin. Only God is immortal.

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Rosenritter said:

You just admitted that Jesus was God.

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jamie said:

The preincarnate Christ was God who became human through his mom.

Humans die, God doesn't.

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Rosenritter said:

Can you supply a passage that supports that latter statement?

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Rosenritter said:

Your "Jesus has a God" logic is meaningless. Show me where in the Bible it emphatically states that God is not his own God and then you might have a point. Otherwise you are just overlaying your (somewhat biased) human reasoning. When the creator of all things was made flesh and walked among us, and he intentionally appeared as one of us and followed the same rules that he laid out for everyone else, who ELSE is he going to acknowledge as God? Answer me that, please.

Why would Jesus be exalted? Because he was first lowered. It says right there, that he was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death. You're smart and quick, find the passage if you think my memory of it is off. Why does it say Jesus is at the right hand of God? Because the "Right Hand" is the executive position, and because part of the perspective is still of Jesus walking among them. It's a shock, of sorts, to find that the person you ate with was your creator. You are still stuck on the "analogy" aspects. Switch to the real aspects, the absolute Revelation and direct statements. "God was manifest in the flesh", "His name shall be called ... the Mighty God, the everlasting Father..." "I am the first and the last" .... "The Lord God has sent his angel, I, Jesus have sent my angel" ... "that you may know that the Son of Man has the power to forgive sin..." and so forth.

Jesus said that we should know the ONE TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom he has sent. Then he tells us in Revelation that he IS the one true God. So if your preconceptions are stopping you here, that's what you need to let go. "One True God" and "Jesus Christ" are synonyms. Two terms after each other like that are in parallel. That pattern is all throughout the Bible, even in places that you could not deny are the one and same person.

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Rosenritter said:

The eating and drinking of flesh and blood is symbolic, but the symbol is of his torn flesh and shed blood. Eating and drinking is symbolic of accepting it into your very being and of it being your means of continued life and existence. The means of his torn flesh and shed blood was the cross, and it had to be the cross because this was the prophesied method of his death. When someone offers you something, you have to accept it on their conditions. God offers us eternal life, it has to be accepted on his terms.

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marhig said:

What does this mean?

Hebrews 14:4

KJV

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

NIV

In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

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Bright Raven said:

There is no Hebrews 14:4

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lifeisgood said:

It has been shown to you by myself and many others, and in many different ways, for many years, however, you have volitionally and knowingly rejected it for THE LIE that came to you when you were not looking for it and you have swallowed THE LIE line, hook, and sinker.

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marhig said:

And those who belong to God worship him in spirit and in truth.

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They walk in and live by the spirit, and they bare witness to the truth, they deny their flesh, obey God, and bring Christ who lives through them to others.

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Those who are saved are those with the indwelling spirit in the heart and he is saving them by helping them, through Christ, to overcome Satan daily. And if we endure to the end then we have the hope of eternal salvation.

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If you believe that only those who believe in a triune God are saved, then not only are you very judgemental, but you are also very wrong, because Jesus said that eternal life is to believe in the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. And that's exactly what I believe in.

We can't judge who will or won't be saved, only God can do that. And you're not God, so I'd save the judging for him if I were you, because as you judge, then you're being judged also, and those people you are judging could love God with their whole hearts and be living a life to please him.

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jamie said:

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

Colossians 1:16 "For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him."

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marhig said:

Nope, I don't see any of that as you do, and I don't see how showing God is not his own God will prove my point, that just shows us that God is God, but Jesus clearly says that God is his God and father, there no way of turning that into anything else, I believe Jesus spoke the truth! The Bible clearly shows that God is the God of Jesus, I have to believe Jesus as he calls God his God, by the way, I worded what I said wrong, what Jesus actually says shows clearly that God is God and he had been sent by him.

John 17:3

And this is life eternal, THAT THEY MIGHT KNOW THEE, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

That's pretty clear that there only one true God and that he sent Jesus

Why would Jesus be sent if he was God? He wouldn't need to be sent because there would be no one above him who could send him. And it says clearly in the Bible that Christ is subject into God. And you say he was exalted because he was humbled, who exalted him?

By the way, you say I'm stuck in analogy aspects, the whole Bible is full of analogies!

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