Is this what Christian Love looks like? I'm disgusted and full of sadness.

bling · Jul 29, 2016

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 29, 2016

bling said:
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Bling,

You are correct.

I am convicted by your post.

I seem harsh as I post, but I acknowledge that Love and recognition of the sacrifice of Jesus for everyone, sinner and self righteous alike is the standard.

I don't know which side of matters you were speaking from, but those are powerful words and I thank you for posting them! [emoji846]

Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

jamie · Jul 29, 2016

Nameless.In.Grace said:
Why, because Paul spoke as I do. One sin, just one, and by the carnal measuring stick of Moses, I am condemned by ALL 613 laws of the Old Covenant.

What? Paul said, "For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?"

"Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?" (Paul)

Leaven is used as a type for sin because leaven puffs up.

"Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened."
(Paul again)

Unleavened means without sin.

daqq · Jul 29, 2016

jamie said:
What? Paul said, "For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?"

"Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?" (Paul)

Leaven is used as a type for sin because leaven puffs up.

"Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened."
(Paul again)

Unleavened means without sin.

You are the light of the world: a city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden, (neither a city that is set on seven hills). Therefore shepherd and rule your seven congregations with a rod of iron, (Torah), and cut off what needs to be cut off: if your right eye offends you, remove its lamp, and so on and so on. Let Elohim judge those which are without; concern yourself only with your world, (it is a body-house-temple-template-analogy).

Ben Masada · Jul 29, 2016

Nameless.In.Grace said:
Please help me. I am absolutely sickened by this. This is why I am not afraid to be mocked for standing up for ALL humanity. This spirit is really in our midst.

Who is speaking through this spirit per 1 John.

Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

Nameless, the help you need is to use your Freewill to return to the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism by studying his gospel which was the Tanach. And last but not least, to do what Jesus commanded by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

Ben Masada · Jul 29, 2016

bling said:
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

That's why Jesus himself did not cast the first stone. He was not without sin. Evidences? Ecclesiastes 7:20 and Matthew 23:13-33.

marhig · Jul 29, 2016

Nameless.In.Grace said:
Marhig,

Thank you for recognizing the sin of carnal wishes of people to die. I now challenge you to recognize the Spiritual sin of condemning fellow human beings that God loves.

In the bible, which is worse? Carnal sin or spiritual sin?

You are wise, so I assume you know. Is believing a person is damned for their carnal sin a good idea in terms of the teachings of Jesus?

The rest of this post is written towards you, but it is not directed at you.

You made a point that I want to address. You clued me in to things I want to say.

The weight of this response is not on your shoulders. Remember, I know Jesus gave you a good heart.

I'm using your words as an excuse to make a further point.

The spirit of grace looks past all sin. Sin is not profitable!

The thing is, many Christians have turned this one topic into an anomaly.

Everybody sins! It's a fact. Homosexuals are wired to sin by being themselves. God didn't do this to them. Sin has caused us to deviate from the standards of holiness.

The bible says that all have fallen short and sinned. The thing about homosexuals is that their sin is visible.

They wear it on their sleeve.

That list in Revelation, Peter and Galatians and Romans of things that displease God is a reminder that without the covering cloak of Christ, we won't make it home.

I told you that we differed in theology. This is where the rubber meets the road.

You are saying that gay people have to stop being gay to make it to heaven.

That's none of our business.

We Love people and the Holy Spirit works in His timing to change people as He sees necessary. The Spirit of Love focuses on the most important part of a human being. Their Heart and Soul. That's the eternal fruit. Carnal sins will be consumed by the Love of God when we are made glory to glory. If carnal sin is removed in the process of redemption, that is awesome. However, if it is left in a person, it isn't God sinning or making a person sin, it means the Holy Spirit knows how to mold the clay of the soul and heart better than we do, and He knows what to work on first and what to continue to work on to profit a persons soul and heart to the fullest.

We were supposed to love sinners. Sinners means everyone! We won't be cured of the leporsy of sin until we are given our new bodies.

To say one type of sin is worse than another can be true, but the sin of carnal error isn't the sin that matters to God any more. The sin of not Loving people is the sin that matters now. Read 1 John, John, Galatians, Romans and the whole bible. God promises that mercy is His standard.

I don't write long posts to feel good. I'm trying to point out that there are many more instances of God's grace and forgiveness than anything else in the bible.

To miss the over 1600 stipulations of righteous found in the entire Bible and zero in on one group that typically is subjected to self loathing and then carnally judge them as lost is a far worse sin then anything about their human sexuality.

God talks about sex so much because it is an intimate part of a human being. He knows it speaks to private places of our lives. This is why he uses adulatory as an example of turning our backs on Him.

He wrote that command to Love in the sand, before the smoking gun of the freshly caught adulterous. When he told her to go and sin no more, it's in the same book that says the sin of the world is unbelief, and again He says in that same book that the work of humanity is to believe on the one that the Father sent.

How else could Jesus have said it for the church to WAKE UP? He said dear children, if you Love me and keep my commandments you will be in my Me as I am in my Father.

John 15 is where this occurs and 1 John. He then says, and this is my command, that you Love others as you Love yourself.

What is so difficult about this. The church has gone back to Moses and thrown away Jesus. By judging one sin, we become guilty of them all.

I could be void of carnal sin and I would still speak as I speak. Why, because Paul spoke as I do. One sin, just one, and by the carnal measuring stick of Moses, I am condemned by ALL 613 laws of the Old Covenant. Jesus makes it clear that if we judge, we will be judged by the judgment we use.

If a gay person carnally strays, they are winning in the flesh, but if a Christian judges, they are betraying Christ.

Who is more guilty of sin here?

Are people so narrow that they don't realize that just because Jesus didn't make the story about the tax collector and the Pharisee about gay people, that it reads the same to implement humility and hope in place of pride and judgment?

The Love part is the fear and trembling. If I judge sins, I'm now opening up to the imputed sin of all of Moses.

This was a Jesus test. He allows us to know good from evil, but watches if we use that to harm others or Love and forgive.

Why is this topic such a big deal? It shows the devil exploiting human pride and fear to lead sheep astray through judging people and walking all over Jesus who died for them.

You have a good heart Marhig. You are wise by the Holy Spirit.

Please hear me out. Where would any of us be without the forgiveness of Jesus?

The Law is fulfilled now and Jesus did this. You quoted Leviticus and more of Moses. Isn't this a clue?

You could quote places in the New Testament too.

But remember these verses above all.

Matthew 9:13

Go and learn what this means: I desire mercy and not sacrifice. For I didn't come to call the righteous, but sinners."

And again in the OT.

For I desire loyalty and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.

Jesus loves honest people, not perfect people.

We aren't perfect yet. We should see that no one else is either. It's about our heart and how we treat people.

Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

Crikey O'Reilly, that's one long post

now you did ask for people to answer you, and I'm only being honest as to what it says in the Bible, i didn't say that i don't sin, and everyone else is wrong, I am a sinner and the only one saving me is Gods holy spirit in my heart, daily prompting me, guiding me and teaching me to do why what's right. Without God and Christ, well I don't want to think what I'd be like. Worse than a whole lot of other people that's for sure!

So, firstly, where did I say this?

You are saying that gay people have to stop being gay to make it to heaven.

Because, I haven't got clue who will be in heaven, that's not my decision to make. Only God can say who will who won't be in heaven. I do believe however that once we know God, we are turn from sin. And I do believe that for people sleep with the same sex is wrong before God. But that's nothing to do with me. That's between them and God. And my sins are between me and God.

I can't whitewash things and say, oh yes every sin we commit once we know God is fine, and it's all hidden anyway, and God won't see them. Because i don't believe that for one minute! I know you don't agree with me in the way I believe. But that's my beliefs and I have to stand my them, because God wants us to stop sinning, and if we have the holy spirit then he should be putting our flesh to death and we should be turning from sin.

I would care for people regardless, I haven't got it in my heart to be nasty to anyone, I'd be straight and honest if asked but I would never be horrible or hurt them and I'd always help them.

I worked with a gay young man a couple of years ago, his name was Tom. And as he got to know me, I started to talk about the things of God with him. One day he asked what the Bible says about being gay, I had to tell the truth. Anyway, he listened and I explained it carefully, and i included that I also have to stand before God, I worked with him for a long time after. And he always came to me and talked to me about God and asked me questions about the Bible, I had a very soft spot for him.

Then one day, my assistant manager was talking to me, she asked me what I was doing that night, I told her that I was going to my house meeting where we read the Bible and talk about God. Her face fell to the floor, she scoffed at me and said oh no, you don't believe in all that rubbish do you. I told her that God is there, and I started talking to her and she cut me off. She was a typical mum, married with 3 children, yet her heart was hard. I do hope she softens one day and listens

Anyway, I was talking to someone one day, and they weren't too nice about gay people. So I told them what had happened in my work. And I asked, which one do you think had the right heart before God? And it stumped them. Then I said that we shouldn't judge anyone, God will know who are his and where we are going. We just bring his word to others and live it out.

I'm not perfect, but i do believe that once we know God, and we know we are doing wrong, then we should stop doing it, I take this to myself first. But I'm not the judge of others, how can I judge another of I'm a sinner? Everything we do in our lives is between ourselves and God only.

Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 29, 2016

jamie said:
What? Paul said, "For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?"

"Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?" (Paul)

Leaven is used as a type for sin because leaven puffs up.

"Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened."
(Paul again)

Unleavened means without sin.

This is in light of the new covenant. The Leavening is Moses. The judgment isn't judgment of carnal behavior, it is the testing of the Spirit. Paul, John and James all agree that Love is the highest order of the "body".

We all have our personal measure of brambles or tares.

We have no business trying to help others with theirs.

That is what the Spirit of Christ is for.

It is a personal matter to the believer.

For that matter, it is the personal matter of all human beings.

Society enforces laws based on new covenant precepts in democratic

Paul spends much more time discussing how Judaizing destroys the new wine, but much less focus on Carnal behavior.

If you compile all of Pauls words, you will find He focuses on the New Covenant of Love.

Who is outside the reach of the blood anyways?

Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

serpentdove · Jul 29, 2016

Nameless.In.Grace said:
[Blasphemous cartoon] I don't usually use names, but I'm calling Clete out.

Clete quote:

The most loving thing to do with a homo is to convict him of his crime and execute him publically and painfully.

No, I'm not kidding. That is not a joke and it isn't said for effect or to get a reaction. It's God's own truth.

Is this what the brick and mortar church has become?

You equate Jesus with a Sodomite? The punishment for Sodomites is death. When Sodomites aren't put to death, you get what we have now--America. :BRAVO:

The wickedness of Sodom ([Ex 20:14]

heterosexual [Lev. 20:10–12] or homosexual [Lev. 20:10,13]) was notorious (Gen. 13:13).

See:

Nicer than God
The Bible's Criminal Code

Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 29, 2016

marhig said:
Crikey O'Reilly, that's one long post now you did ask for people to answer you, and I'm only being honest as to what it says in the Bible, i didn't say that i don't sin, and everyone else is wrong, I am a sinner and the only one saving me is Gods holy spirit in my heart, daily prompting me, guiding me and teaching me to do why what's right. Without God and Christ, well I don't want to think what I'd be like. Worse than a whole lot of other people that's for sure!

So, firstly, where did I say this?

Marhig,

You didn't. Tee Hee Hee, Buried in my book were these words, but I'll re-quote them.

The rest of this post is written towards you, but it is not directed at you.

You made a point that I want to address. You clued me in to things I want to say.

I pulled a fast one. I used ideas that your positive post generated in my mind to express other ideas to anyone else that reads it. There are many silent eyes watching ToL.

However, I have been saying all along that you are the Spirits work. You have only proven so with your second, beautiful story of faith in the work of Christ.

I used your awesome post to get on my soap box, hence the quoted words. [emoji1]

And again, it is always a blessing.

Peace, Grace and Gratitude. [emoji106][emoji846]

Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

serpentdove · Jul 29, 2016

Nameless.In.Grace said:
Please help me. I am absolutely sickened by this. This is why I am not afraid to be mocked for standing up for ALL humanity. This spirit is really in our midst.

Who is speaking through this spirit per 1 John.

Your being sickened is irrelevant (Ac 5:29). Laws come from God not man (1 Ti 1:8-10, Ac 5:29).

Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 29, 2016

serpentdove said:
You equate Jesus with a Sodomite? The punishment for Sodomites is death. When Sodomites aren't put to death, you get what we have now--America. :BRAVO:

The wickedness of Sodom ([Ex 20:14]

heterosexual [Lev. 20:10–12] or homosexual [Lev. 20:10,13]) was notorious (Gen. 13:13).

See:

Nicer than God
The Bible's Criminal Code

Ezekiel 16:49-50 (HCSB)

49 Now this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, plenty of food, and comfortable security, but didn’t support the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before Me, so I removed them when I saw this.

.......... Silly Serpy,

You forget your scripture sometimes don't you.

Whenever you hear the word Sodomy, you think of it's modern use and equate it to one particular act based on usage of the day.

Have you been hoarding those cloaks of righteousness from homosexuals?

Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 29, 2016

Is this what Christian Love looks like? I'm disgusted and full of sadness.

serpentdove said:
Your being sickened is irrelevant (Ac 5:29). Laws come from God not man (1 Ti 1:8-10, Ac 5:29).

That's why I was sickened. What part of Love your neighbor was that quote about?

Do you condone the spiritual or carnal stoning of transgressors of Moses, Serpy?

Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 29, 2016

Ben Masada said:
Nameless, the help you need is to use your Freewill to return to the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism by studying his gospel which was the Tanach. And last but not least, to do what Jesus commanded by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

Ben Masada said:
That's why Jesus himself did not cast the first stone. He was not without sin. Evidences? Ecclesiastes 7:20 and Matthew 23:13-33.

Ben,

You know I'm too Jewish and stubborn to turn back from the new covenant now. [emoji846]

Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

serpentdove · Jul 29, 2016

Nameless.In.Grace said:
[The wickedness of Sodom ([Ex 20:14]

heterosexual [Lev. 20:10–12] or homosexual [Lev. 20:10,13]) was notorious (Gen. 13:13).] Ezekiel 16:49-50 ... You forget your scripture sometimes don't you...Whenever you hear the word Sodomy, you think of it's modern use and equate it to one particular act based on usage of the day. Have you been hoarding those cloaks of righteousness from homosexuals?

They were haughty and did detestable things before Me (Eze 16:50a). What about detestable don't you get? Perhaps you hadn't noticed--:listen: They aren't interested in the Lord's robe of righteousness (Jb 29:14).

You think their behavior is a-ok. God does not.

serpentdove · Jul 29, 2016

Nameless.In.Grace said:
[...Laws come from God not man (1 Ti 1:8-10, Ac 5:29). ] That's why I was sickened. What part of Love [sic] your neighbor was that quote about?

Loving your neighbor is telling him the truth (Ac 20:20). You're ashamed of God's truth (Jn 14:6). :listen: He'll be ashamed of you (Lk 9:26, Heb 13:4). :burnlib:

Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 29, 2016

Is this what Christian Love looks like? I'm disgusted and full of sadness.

serpentdove said:
They were haughty and did detestable things before Me (Eze 16:50a). What about detestable don't you get? Perhaps you hadn't noticed--:listen: They aren't interested in the Lord's robe of righteousness (Jb 29:14).

You think their behavior is a-ok. God does not.

What part about a group of hostile people that were unloving and stingy with what they had, don't you get?

Sodomy is a state of heart, not of flesh.

If Jesus doesn't judge, but condemns Pharisees, who do you think the Spiritual Sodimites were and are?

Carnal sinners or the spiritually proud that condemn?

Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

Nameless.In.Grace · Jul 29, 2016

serpentdove said:
Loving your neighbor is telling him the truth (Ac 20:20). You're ashamed of God's truth (Jn 14:6). :listen: He'll be ashamed of you (Lk 9:26, Heb 13:4). :burnlib:

What's that verse in Romans 5....

Man, if only I could quote it right.

Please help me get it right Serpent Dove.

After we stopped being sinners, Jesus Loved us and Died for us.

........... Did I nail it?

Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

serpentdove · Jul 29, 2016

Nameless.In.Grace said:
[Loving your neighbor is telling him the truth (Ac 20:20)...] What part about a group of hostile people that were unloving and stingy with what they had, don't you get?

"Ps 139:22 perfect hatred. David has no other response to God’s enemies than that of hatred, i.e., he is not neutral towards them nor will he ever ally himself with them." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 866). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

Nameless.In.Grace said:
[The wickedness of Sodom ([Ex 20:14]

heterosexual [Lev. 20:10–12] or homosexual [Lev. 20:10,13]) was notorious (Gen. 13:13)...You think their behavior is a-ok. God does not.] Sodomy is a state of heart, not of flesh.

Sodomy is very much work of the flesh (Gal. 5:19–21). :dizzy:

Are you a Sodomite? :smokie:

Nameless.In.Grace said:
If Jesus doesn't judge...

Who told you that? :hammer: Rom. 1:18–32

“If you take part of the truth, and try to make that part of the truth, all of the truth, then that part of the truth becomes an untruth.” ~ Adrian Rogers

serpentdove · Jul 29, 2016

Nameless.In.Grace said:
...After we stopped being sinners, Jesus Loved [sic] us and Died [sic] for us.

"God loves you. He'll live without you." :burnlib: ~ J. Vernon McGee

Is this what Christian Love looks like? I'm disgusted and full of sadness.

Member

BANNED

New member

Well-known member

New member

New member

Well-known member

BANNED

BANNED

BANNED

BANNED

BANNED

BANNED

BANNED

BANNED

BANNED

BANNED

BANNED

BANNED

BANNED