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Thread: REPORT: The Death Penalty Debate - By Bob Enyart

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    Originally posted by Freak
    Like the apostle Paul (the murderer) too?
    Like David (who was under the OLD Covenant) too?

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    Originally posted by Turbo
    Like David (who was under the OLD Covenant) too?
    I'm talking about those under the New Covenant. We live under the New Covenant. Get with the program.
    Jesus Loves You

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    Still can't comprehend that rebuttal, eh Freak?

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    Symbolic law should not be obeyed by the saved. Paul made that clear. As for the unrighteous--they can try if they want to, but I seriously don't think that any of the unrighteous will be able to totally keep the symbolic law--only Christ fulfilled all requirements--and even if they do, those under the law are cut off under the dispensation of salvation by grace. What do you think about keeping the symbolic law? I would say that keeping entirely symbolic aspects of the law for the sake of being "Right with God" alone would put a believer back under the law, which is a really lousy place to be.

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    Originally posted by Freak
    Should these Laws be obeyed by the righteous & unrighteous or just the unrighteous?
    The symbolic laws were only given to the Isrealites in the first place. One of their purposes was to separate the Israelites from the gentiles.

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    The thief on the cross doesn't seem to be a good example, seeing as he was being crucified along with the innocent Son of God.

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    Originally posted by Crow
    Symbolic law should not be obeyed by the saved. Paul made that clear. As for the unrighteous--they can try if they want to, but I seriously don't think that any of the unrighteous will be able to totally keep the symbolic law--only Christ fulfilled all requirements--and even if they do, those under the law are cut off under the dispensation of salvation by grace. What do you think about keeping the symbolic law? I would say that keeping entirely symbolic aspects of the law for the sake of being "Right with God" alone would put a believer back under the law, which is a really lousy place to be.
    The primary function of the Old Covenant was a ministry of death.

    He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! (2 Corinthians 3:6-9)

    Why bring the death penalty in the New Covenant?
    Jesus Loves You

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    If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come--one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. (Hebrews 7:11-12)
    Jesus Loves You

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    The Old Covenant has been perfectly fulfilled in Christ, Crow, and done away with. God's law is still binding on the believer in the New Covenant era, but Godís righteous standards are contained in the Law of Christ, not the Law of Moses:

    To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. (1 Corinthians 9:20-21)

    What was the law of Christ, Crow?
    Jesus Loves You

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    Originally posted by Freak
    The primary function of the Old Covenant was a ministry of death.

    He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! (2 Corinthians 3:6-9)

    Why bring the death penalty in the New Covenant?
    The need for civil law and penalties did not pass away when the New Covenant entered. Salvation and criminal law are separate entities. There's more death in the New Covenant than the Old--everyone but the ones saved by God goes to hell at the end.

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    Originally posted by Untouchable
    The thief on the cross doesn't seem to be a good example, seeing as he was being crucified along with the innocent Son of God.
    But he said to the other criminal that they were receiving their just punishment. Jesus did not correct him, and the Holy spirit inspired that it be written in the Gospel account.

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    Originally posted by Crow
    The need for civil law and penalties did not pass away when the New Covenant entered.
    A better way has been brought to us through the New Covenant.

    Salvation and criminal law are separate entities.
    NO!!!! Salvation is the weapon to fight crime. Do you believe that? What tranforms the heart--the Gospel message or the death penalty?

    There's more death in the New Covenant than the Old--everyone but the ones saved by God goes to hell at the end.
    Crow, re-read what the New Covenant tells us:

    He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! (2 Corinthians 3:6-9)

    Now which covenant brings death?
    Jesus Loves You

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    Originally posted by Turbo
    But he said to the other criminal that they were receiving their just punishment.
    But the criminal was prosecuted for his crime under the Old Covenant.
    Jesus Loves You

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    Originally posted by Freak Why bring the death penalty in the New Covenant?
    To prevent a crime epidemic. See Ecc. 8:11

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    Originally posted by Freak
    But the criminal was prosecuted for his crime under the Old Covenant.
    So God used to demand the death penalty and call it just, but now He does the opposite, forbidding the death penalty and calling it unjust?

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