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Thread: REPORT: The Death Penalty Debate - By Bob Enyart

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    Originally posted by HillbillyWilli
    Bob writes


    So if I have a plank, Why not kill me?
    Why am I allowed to remove it to look for a speck.
    Shall I remove my plank, then stone to death one who has a speck?
    Not every punishment is capital. This passage, by the way, is not addressing what type of punishment. It is instructing people to judge correctly, and not be hypocrites. It is saying that if you are guilty of a sin, you have to clean up your own act first, then you can judge another and help them clean up their act.

    He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.
    Whos sword?
    This is not a passage which addresses who should be the executioner in capital punishment, nor anything near it. This passage is a statement that violent people come to violent ends.


    Just heard one of the priests that went to jail for mollesting kids got killed in jail.
    You could say he died by the sword.
    Maybe those who kill with a sword will die by the sword in that way.
    A murderer killed by a murderer
    The molestor should have never been in jail under God's criminal justice system. He should have been promptly tried, and if found guilty, executed. God did not specify "put all the murderers together with the molesters, and let them all kill each other. That's hardly an endorsement for "He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword" as a form of execution.


    I should add, I am not judging the man.
    Only making a point for a question
    Why is it impossible to judge that a man who just murdered another criminal contrary to process of law is guilty of murder?

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    Friendly Neighborhood Admin Turbo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by drbrumley
    Outstanding piece of explaining Turbo, Keep it up
    Thank you very much, sir.

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    Originally posted by Crow
    I'm making Acts up? LOL. You stated Revalations is just one book of the Bible, I gave you another.
    What are you talking about???? Neither does Acts nor the book of the Revelation endorse the State's use of the death penalty.

    Freak, the state at this time remained the Romans. I believe they continued with the death penalty. I don't see any evidence that the Jews discontinued it either.
    God have mercy on you!!! The state do many things contrary to God's revealed will. Like I said, the New Covenant does not endorse the states option to put people to death.

    Yes. God hates as well as loves.
    Is God's nature one of hate or love--what does 1 John 4:8 tell you?

    Freak--the Scripture tells of God's desire for a relationship between Him and man, of the means He arrainged for this relationship to take place, and the fate of those who accept the relationship, and the fate of those who do not. God is pretty good at condemnation, Freak.
    ...that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

    Your idea of who God is has been tainted by Enyart. Re-read this verse a few times.
    Jesus Loves You

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    Originally posted by Turbo
    The governments'. Revelation 13:10 phrases it this way: "he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword." God is not saying that violence breeds violence with this statement. He is talking about justice.
    And this is your evidence for the State's endorsement for the death penalty? Who will be ruling during this time in Revelation 13? Context is everything!!!

    But He does delegate the responsibility of punishing criminals to governments, and commands them to use capital punishment.
    You have to show us where God endorsed the state to faciliate the death penalty. The Romans passage does not endorse the death penalty--it simply points to the reality that the governement possesses the authority (the sword) to carry out punishment.

    This is consistent with what Jesus did to a murderer (Paul) He encountered. He saved him, not put him to death. The gospel message is much more powerful weapon to fight crime then the death penalty.
    Jesus Loves You

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    Freak says, (just a side note from DRBrumley)

    The New Covenant is a superior Covenant that's probably why people tire of the insistence on going back to the Old.
    Freak translation, even if he doesn't realize it==============GOD Changed

    By his own words God changed covenants. And Freak says God doesn't change.

    In Christ,
    DRBrumley
    The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

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    Originally posted by Freak
    What are you talking about???? Neither does Acts nor the book of the Revelation endorse the State's use of the death penalty.

    God have mercy on you!!! The state do many things contrary to God's revealed will. Like I said, the New Covenant does not endorse the states option to put people to death.
    God never repeals the death penalty.

    Is God's nature one of hate or love--what does 1 John 4:8 tell you?
    [/b]

    It tells me that one aspect of God's nature is love. It is not exclusive--God has other aspects as well. Revalations is full of testimony to God's other aspects. Does God love evil? Of course not. Just because He is a God of love does not preclude His hating. There are numerous places in the Bible where God states that He hates.

    Deuteronomy 12:31
    You shall not worship the LORD your God in that way; for every abomination to the LORD which He hates they have done to their gods; for they burn even their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.

    We have a few possibilities here. 1) This is a snippet from a non-scriptural source. 2) God's entire nature changed, and He is no longer the God who created us. 3) This is discussing some other god, not our God. 4) God fibbed. 5) God hates as well as loves.



    ....that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
    [b]"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

    Your idea of who God is has been tainted by Enyart. Re-read this verse a few times.
    I read it. God loved the world. He gave his only Son. Whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish. As for whosoever does not believeth in Him.....what happens to them, Freak?

    As for Bob Enyart "tainting" my view of God, you're right, Freak. I didn't believe God existed until I ran across Bob Enyart. Now I do. Thanks again, Bob!

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    I agree with you Crow!

    Bob is a cool dude!
    I like mustard.

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    Originally posted by drbrumley
    Freak says, (just a side note from DRBrumley)



    Freak translation, even if he doesn't realize it==============GOD Changed

    By his own words God changed covenants. And Freak says God doesn't change.

    In Christ,
    DRBrumley
    Could it be said, the people changed?

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    Originally posted by Crow
    This is not a passage which addresses who should be the executioner in capital punishment, nor anything near it. This passage is a statement that violent people come to violent ends.


    The molestor should have never been in jail under God's criminal justice system. He should have been promptly tried, and if found guilty, executed. God did not specify "put all the murderers together with the molesters, and let them all kill each other. That's hardly an endorsement for "He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword" as a form of execution.

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    Willi,

    You said,


    Could it be said, the people changed?

    I agree, people did change! That's a fact. But because of this, God changed the rules for us. Humanity was no longer good after sin entered the picture. God changed how he dealt with us. God didn't change His character, but changed His mind, unless of course one believes Adam and Eve's fall was planned and everything that has ever happened was all planned. Making us mere ROBOTS instead of human beings that God wants to have a relationship with. And this is where Freak sides that we are nothing more than ROBOTS!

    In Christ,
    DRBrumley
    The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

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    Originally posted by drbrumley
    And this is where Freak sides that we are nothing more than ROBOTS!
    Since I don't believe that--this therefore is a lie!
    Jesus Loves You

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    Originally posted by Freak
    Since I don't believe that--this therefore is a lie!
    It is? Your posts demonstrate otherwise!!!!
    The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

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    Originally posted by drbrumley
    It is?
    Yes, it is a lie. I believe all of humanity have free will and freely choose to love God.

    So, will you retract your lie?
    Jesus Loves You

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    But yet God doesn't change His mind?
    The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

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    Originally posted by drbrumley
    But yet God doesn't change His mind?
    No, God does not change (there is another thread about this issue if you'd like to debate it).
    Jesus Loves You

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