What is the meaning of grace!

God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Paul does not say that salvation was NOT by the washing of rebirth, as you imagine:
Click to expand...
I did not say that.

Paul is saying that it is by the washing of rebirth and that is in contrast to the external washings the people used to have to do with the animal sacrifice.

Jerry Shugart said:
"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior" (Titus 3:4-6).

Can you understand what is written there yet? It doesn't say that salvation is NOT through the washing of rebirth but instead that it is!
Click to expand...

Where did you ever get that I said it wasn’t?

Paul is explaining how the works of righteousness that the people USED TO HAVE to do does not save. The Jews used to work at washing themselves.

Jerry Shugart said:
Perhaps if you see the passage enough times you will finally understand what is being said.

But no matter how many times you will see it you will never believe it. Why?:
Click to expand...

You are the one who does not understand.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
glorydaz said:
Well, YOUR faith in yourself most certainly is dead. It's alone.
Click to expand...
You have faith in your faith.

I have faith in every word of God.

I have so much faith in Him that I do exactly what he says to do.

glorydaz said:
Believers have believed IN Jesus Christ, and are justified by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST.
Click to expand...

Jesus isn't believing for you. You have to believe him. What does he say? He says to obey him.

glorydaz said:
We aren't justified by our own obedience (Thank the Lord). I know you like to take verses piecemeal, but you should really spend some time chewing over this one.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.​
Click to expand...

That is about the purification/ceremonial works. We are not justified by those works anymore. The Jews used to have to justify/clean themselves, but now Jesus cleans us. That does not mean we do not have to obey Jesus anymore. hahahahahahahaha

It means you do not have to get circumcised, do a special washing and sacrifice an animal, but you still have to obey Jesus and abstain from evil.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
glorydaz said:
Paul boasted in others. There's not a thing wrong with praising or bragging on others. That's not what YOU do, though, is it?

He didn't boast in his own obedience, except for his obedience to the law when he was a pharisee. Paul explains about that kind of obedience in Romans 10. Actually, it's the same kind of obedience that you boast in. What a coincidence. :think:

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.​
Click to expand...

You have a hard time listening. Jesus justifies me with his blood. He chooses who he will justify, he chooses those he wants to save. He tells us how to be one he says.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
Not sinning didn't get done away with. lol
Click to expand...

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Ro.4:5-8).​

Of course those who have not the Spirit which is of God do not know the things which are "freely" given to true believers. lol

God's Truth said:
Righteous acts are circumcision, the dietary law, the various external washings and the sacrifice of animals.
Click to expand...

Those things never applied to Gentiles (Ro.2:14) so your argument falls apart. The words "righteous things" mean exactly what they say:

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy" (Titus 3:4).​

You don't even understand the most basic things of the Christian revelation. lol
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
TulipBee said:
I'm the worker be and GT's flower is dead and dried. No pollen in GT. Don't bear fruits. Bout to be dumped in the burning pile of lies.
Click to expand...

People who obey and preach obedience are in the ark.

Ask Noah about that.

2 Peter 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Jerry Shugart said:

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Ro.4:5-8).​

Of course those who have not the Spirit which is of God do not know the things which are "freely" given to true believers. lol



Those things never applied to Gentiles (Ro.2:14) so your argument falls apart. The words "righteous things" mean exactly what they say:

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy" (Titus 3:4).​

You don't even understand the most basic things of the Christian revelation. lol
Click to expand...

They applied to EVERYONE, and the Gentiles did NOT do it---that is why they were WITHOUT CHRIST and God.

See Ephesians 2:12.
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
God's Truth said:
People who obey and preach obedience are in the ark.

Ask Noah about that.

2 Peter 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
Click to expand...

Obedience is understanding that you are a sinner and all your works are filthy rags. Are you a sinner?
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Epoisses said:
Obedience is understanding that you are a sinner and all your works are filthy rags. Are you a sinner?
Click to expand...

It is never a filthy rag to obey Jesus.

Try repenting for learning things not found in the scriptures.


God does not say that our obedience is as a filthy rag.


The Jews used to have to give BLOOD offerings for their sins---so that they could make themselves RIGHTEOUS BEFORE GOD.

God did NOT like it that the Jews would sin, give a BLOOD SIN OFFERING BUT NOT REALLY BE SORRY FOR THEIR SINS, their sins that they kept doing.

Those BLOOD offerings became as FILTHY THROW AWAY, BLOODY MENSTRUAL RAGS to the Lord.

Read Isaiah 1


Isaiah 1:13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings!

That is what is said by God about the offerings the people were bringing.

Is God putting down the law He gave about bringing offerings?

No, of course not, God is not putting down the law He gave.

God is putting down the offerings that are given by those who have not stopped sinning.

God is putting down the offerings given by people whose hearts are not right.



Read how God, who gave the law to Moses, is complaining that the Jews who were doing the law were doing it without a true heart of remorse from sin.


Isaiah 1:14 Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals
I hate with all my being.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening.
Your hands are full of blood!
16 Wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight;
stop doing wrong.


Isaiah 16 Wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight;
stop doing wrong.
17 Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
plead the case of the widow.
18 “Come now, let us settle the matter,”
says the Lord.
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.
19 If you are willing and obedient,
you will eat the good things of the land;
20 but if you resist and rebel,
you will be devoured by the sword.”
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
God's Truth said:
It is never a filthy rag to obey Jesus.

Try repenting for learning things not found in the scriptures.


God does not say that our obedience is as a filthy rag.


The Jews used to have to give BLOOD offerings for their sins---so that they could make themselves RIGHTEOUS BEFORE GOD.

God did NOT like it that the Jews would sin, give a BLOOD SIN OFFERING BUT NOT REALLY BE SORRY FOR THEIR SINS, their sins that they kept doing.

Those BLOOD offerings became as FILTHY THROW AWAY, BLOODY MENSTRUAL RAGS to the Lord.

Read Isaiah 1


Isaiah 1:13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings!

That is what is said by God about the offerings the people were bringing.

Is God putting down the law He gave about bringing offerings?

No, of course not, God is not putting down the law He gave.

God is putting down the offerings that are given by those who have not stopped sinning.

God is putting down the offerings given by people whose hearts are not right.



Read how God, who gave the law to Moses, is complaining that the Jews who were doing the law were doing it without a true heart of remorse from sin.


Isaiah 1:14 Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals
I hate with all my being.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening.
Your hands are full of blood!
16 Wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight;
stop doing wrong.


Isaiah 16 Wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight;
stop doing wrong.
17 Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
plead the case of the widow.
18 “Come now, let us settle the matter,”
says the Lord.
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.
19 If you are willing and obedient,
you will eat the good things of the land;
20 but if you resist and rebel,
you will be devoured by the sword.”
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.
Click to expand...

Are you a sinner, yes or no?
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
They applied to EVERYONE, and the Gentiles did NOT do it---that is why they were WITHOUT CHRIST and God.
Click to expand...

So even though the Gentiles were never under the Mosaic Covenant the washings under that covenant applied to them!

That is ridiculous! Let us look at this passage again:

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior" (Titus 3:4-6).​

Do you stick to your idea that when the words "righteous things" are in regard to the "washings" under the law for the Gentiles even though the Gentiles were never under the law?
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
So even though the Gentiles were never under the Mosaic Covenant the washings under that covenant applied to them!
Click to expand...

It is WHY THEY WERE without God in the world!

Notice that you left out the scripture I gave for you.

Jerry Shugart said:
That is ridiculous! Let us look at this passage again:

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior" (Titus 3:4-6).​

Do you stick to your idea that when the words "righteous things" are in regard to the "washings" under the law for the Gentiles even though the Gentiles were never under the law?
Click to expand...


Reconciled while enemies is about the Gentiles who were enemies of God because they were not circumcised in the flesh.

Ephesians 2:12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,


Jesus did not make the enemies get circumcised first and do what the Jews always did before he would save them. They just had to believe and obey Jesus and repent of their sins.


Read these scriptures:

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.


Did you read that?

They were ENEMIES because they did not obey and come into the covenant with God by getting circumcised in the flesh.
 
Bright Raven

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
God's Truth said:
Show me where Paul says we are sinners in Christ.

Show it now or repent for merely doing Satan's job of accusing.
Click to expand...
Hebrews 6:4-6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, [a]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Bright Raven said:
Hebrews 6:4-6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, [a]since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Click to expand...

That scripture is about a Jew, a Jew who accepted Christ, shared in the laying of the foundation with all the miracles and blessings---to then go back to being a Jew who rejects Christ.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top