Can a JW be a Christian.

SonOfCaleb

Active member
Defending your religion is not the way to go.

Isaiah 43:12 "you are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “and I am God." I am a Jehovahs Witness. I will defend Gods name and the name of my religion that Jehovah represents. I see no problem with that at all. Woud you not defend the name of your own father?

Do you believe Jesus is a man born from God, who lived and died for you, was resurrected from the dead by His Father to sit on Gods right hand in Heaven to intercede for you, and be your companion by the Holy Spirit given you, who will raise you up from the grave to be with Him forever?

If you believe this and have called upon Jesus to save you from death, and obeyed what He has told you, then I do not see any reason which will keep you out of His Kingdom, unless you wanted out.

The essence of this as JW's we agree with. But not ALL have the heavenly hope. As Jesus foretold in Revelation many have the Earthly hope, the "Great Crowd".

The word grave has often been mistranslated as hell in the Bible, but there is still a hell, but not an eternal conscious torment of living people.--

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Agreed. As i said already in the thread we do not believe in the 'fiery hell' of Christendom where those in death are held in perpetual torment. Hell is simply the grave. Psalms 146:4 "His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish".

Christ was made both Lord and Christ by His resurrection from the dead and ascended to His Fathers Throne as the Head of His elect Church (no denomination)until He returns to gather His Saints to Himself and rule over the earth, beginning with the destroying of ALL those who refused to repent at the last witness of the Saints of God.(which is massive)

LA

I'm not sure what you mean by this,
"at the last witness of the Saints of God.(which is massive)"
but the essence of what you wrote we agree with. We do not believe in Saints nor do we venerate them as does Christendom. But i suspect your use and application of the word Saints may be different?
 

SonOfCaleb

Active member
But the point is, can a "Jehovah Wistness" be a Christian? I don't see why because all it takes to be a Christian is to believe that Jesus was Christ. They do, don't they?

Correct. A Christian is a "follower of Christ". We follow Christ as the head of the Christian congregation therefore we are Christians.
 

csuguy

Well-known member
One should be very careful when it comes to the matter of judging who is/isn't a Christian. Scripture explicitly tells us not to do so in various places, though in other places there is room for judging the actions of fellow Christians. Romans 14 is a great chapter on this matter:

Romans 14:1-4;10 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.... You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.​

Christ, using a parable, instructs us not to go around trying to pluck out the false believers from the true - lest you in the process hurt and uproot true believers. Again, he teaches that this a matter for the end times and the judgment that he shall oversee.

Matthew 13:24-30 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. 27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ 28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ 29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”​

Thus we may say that though one may have good intentions in trying to separate the "true" believers from the false, it is something that in our hands will produce more harm than good. Look at the Inquisitions and Witch Trials for instance. It is better to focus instead on being the best Christian you can be - and when all is said and done there will be no doubt as to who is what.
 

beameup

New member
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father
-- 1 John 2:22-23a

You can't have one without the other
You reject the Son at your own eternal risk
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Isaiah 43:12 "you are my witnesses,” declares Jehovah, “and I am God." I am a Jehovahs Witness. I will defend Gods name and the name of my religion that Jehovah represents. I see no problem with that at all. Woud you not defend the name of your own father?

My Father is not any religion.





The essence of this as JW's we agree with. But not ALL have the heavenly hope. As Jesus foretold in Revelation many have the Earthly hope, the "Great Crowd".

I see no scripture for that.



Agreed. As i said already in the thread we do not believe in the 'fiery hell' of Christendom where those in death are held in perpetual torment. Hell is simply the grave. Psalms 146:4 "His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish".

Many are raised from the dead to stand in the judgment and then sent into the burning flame.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.



I'm not sure what you mean by this, but the essence of what you wrote we agree with. We do not believe in Saints nor do we venerate them as does Christendom. But i suspect your use and application of the word Saints may be different?

Bible saints are Holy ones. Such are not decided by some Pope, and they are from both Jew and Gentile of all ages .

LA
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father
-- 1 John 2:22-23a

You can't have one without the other
You reject the Son at your own eternal risk


There us a way to confess the Father and Son with ones mouth, but still be denying them.

Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

LA
 

SonOfCaleb

Active member
My Father is not any religion.

I meant in the metaphysical sense. After all Jesus did say in John 20:17 "I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God."



I see no scripture for that.

Its in Revelation. Revelation 7:9 "9After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues". Whats the point in a Heavenly Kingdom if there were no Earthly subjects to rule over..


Bible saints are Holy ones. Such are not decided by some Pope, and they are from both Jew and Gentile of all ages .

LA

We refer to them as the chosen ones who make up the spiritual Israel of God, the 144,000. These chosen ones will rule as Kings and Priests with Jesus in his Kingdom.

Revelation 7:4 "And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel".
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I meant in the metaphyiscal sense. After all Jesus did say in John 20:17 "I am ascending to my Father+ and your Father and to my God+ and your God."

Ok.

Its in Revelation. Revelation 7:9 "9After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues". Whats the point in a Heavenly Kingdom if there were no Earthy subjects to rule over..

You mean the great multitude. They have the same Heavenly hope as the resurrected saints, but yes they are still mortal and the multitude promised to Abraham--

Isa 49:14 But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me.
Isa 49:15 Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
Isa 49:16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
Isa 49:17 Thy children shall make haste; thy destroyers and they that made thee waste shall go forth of thee.
Isa 49:18 Lift up thine eyes round about, and behold: all these gather themselves together, and come to thee. As I live, saith the LORD, thou shalt surely clothe thee with them all, as with an ornament, and bind them on thee, as a bride doeth.
Isa 49:19 For thy waste and thy desolate places, and the land of thy destruction, shall even now be too narrow by reason of the inhabitants, and they that swallowed thee up shall be far away.
Isa 49:20 The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell.
Isa 49:21 Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been?
Isa 49:22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
Isa 49:23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

All have the Heavenly hope but those will have to live out their days before achieving it.


We refer to them as the chosen ones who make up the spiritual Israel of God, the 144,000. These chosen ones will rule as Kings and Priests with Jesus in his Kingdom.

Revelation 7:4 "And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel".

Those qualified so to reign with Christ are still coming from the ranks of believers right up to the beginning of the 3.5 years for they are the Bride--

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

LA
 

beameup

New member
There us a way to confess the Father and Son with ones mouth, but still be denying them.
Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
LA

Has nothing to do with the Gospel of Grace, through Faith, without Works.
Different era, different rules.
Bow now, or Bow later (when it's too late).

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:
and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life;
but the wrath of God abideth on him. (eternally)
John 3:36
 
This is just my opinion, but I believe a JW can be saved. To my mind, a better question may be can an old JW be saved? I've had many encounters with Jehovah's Witnesses, the last one a couple young men I talked to for sometime. It was evident they were sincere, spiritually oriented, were actually very well behaved, uniquely kind people. They could answer well from the JW line, especially one of them, as to John 1 and deity, etc. On discussing some things, there was even a wavering in their beliefs as to my complaints, a sort of "maybe" emerging that I may be right. They both confessed Jesus Christ and believed in Him for salvation. It was a striking conversation to me, as I found them to be more Christian, in many ways, than at least a couple other denominations I won't name. They had a hunger for the things of God, an eagerness to discuss them.

So here are the questions that emerged. Is salvation predicated on having all doctrine right? Did any of us have everything right, on being saved? Or, in fact, did all of us have some things wrong as to doctrine? The Holy Spirit leads into truth, but I've not met a true Christian who would say it hasn't taken them a lifetime to get where they are, thus far, or who would claim they'll die, knowing it all, will ever be right as to all things in the Bible. And the basic gospel is simple, salvation not dependent upon being ready for strong meat of doctrine. Therefore, I came to the conclusion these young men are very likely saved, that I had no right to question their salvation, in any case, and I would guess that, at some point, they will leave the JWs, as they grow older and the Holy Spirit leads them into truth, as He does, again, all believers, who could have started their walk with the Lord having little else right but the saving gospel. I would add I've had similar experiences with young Mormon missionaries.

Conclusion? I do wonder about those old, long time, in the JW faith, as it is a cult with some major false prophecy, and they've, somehow, not been led into truth. But I also conclude it's not Christian to play God and condemn an entire large group of people, would have to also question the Christianity of those who are condemning of others which only God can know the hearts and minds of, such judgment of persons a definite Matthew 7:1, arrogant and non-Christian breach. The bottom line is that we're to stand for truth, but it's God's truth, just as judgment is His, and also just as nobody is right about all doctrine to condemn anybody else, at least who isn't an antichrist. And if I could love these young JW men, I believe God definitely loves them more.

Romans 8

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Regretably, I must also add these young JWs much more exhibited the fruits of the Spirit in their behavior than some mean people on message boards who claim a lease on truth, yet somehow don't know how to be even kind, at times when there's no basis for animosity. Maybe we should be moreso asking if you can be a mean, rude person and a Christian? Doesn't that involve even more fundamental doctrine some seem to have a big problem with?

1 Corinthians 13

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
 

lifeisgood

New member
This is just my opinion, but I believe a JW can be saved.

Absolutely a JW can be saved. Every single JW needs to be saved, just like any other UNbeliever in the world. However, they can only be saved if they hear the preaching of Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary for them.

It was evident they were sincere, spiritually oriented, were actually very well behaved, uniquely kind people.

Yes, they are very sincere and they are very sincerely wrong.

They both confessed Jesus Christ and believed in Him for salvation.

They probably were Christians who rejected their denomination and thought that JWs is better than what they had.

I had a couple of old ladies doing the same.

It was a striking conversation to me, as I found them to be more Christian, in many ways, than at least a couple other denominations I won't name. They had a hunger for the things of God, an eagerness to discuss them.

Yes, they want to talk about God, but it is 'a god' and not The True God that manifested Himself in the flesh to save humankind.

I have had many conversations with some of them coming to my door. I have noticed that they keep on going to my neighbors but they do not come to my door anymore. I keep on sending them to Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary for salvation and the moment I do that, they turn around offers me one of their booklets and being that I reject the offer they simply leave.

So here are the questions that emerged. Is salvation predicated on having all doctrine right?

No.

Salvation is predicated in accepting Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary.

Did any of us have everything right, on being saved? Or, in fact, did all of us have some things wrong as to doctrine?

No.

Not one person at the moment of being convicted by the Holy Spirit and accepting Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary, have any concept, idea, about doctrine.

Doctrine comes later.

The Holy Spirit leads into truth, but I've not met a true Christian who would say it hasn't taken them a lifetime to get where they are, thus far, or who would claim they'll die, knowing it all, will ever be right as to all things in the Bible.

It takes a long time for the Holy Spirit to convince us that there are things that need to be changed in our lives and that only He can make those changes in our lives.

And the basic gospel is simple, salvation not dependent upon being ready for strong meat of doctrine. Therefore, I came to the conclusion these young men are very likely saved, that I had no right to question their salvation, in any case, and I would guess that, at some point, they will leave the JWs, as they grow older and the Holy Spirit leads them into truth, as He does, again, all believers, who could have started their walk with the Lord having little else right but the saving gospel. I would add I've had similar experiences with young Mormon missionaries.

If these young men really are saved, they will leave the JWs organization as the JWs organization is totally contrary to the Gospel.

Conclusion? I do wonder about those old, long time, in the JW faith, as it is a cult with some major false prophecy, and they've, somehow, not been led into truth. But I also conclude it's not Christian to play God and condemn an entire large group of people, would have to also question the Christianity of those who are condemning of others which only God can know the hearts and minds of, such judgment of persons a definite Matthew 7:1, arrogant and non-Christian breach. The bottom line is that we're to stand for truth, but it's God's truth, just as judgment is His, and also just as nobody is right about all doctrine to condemn anybody else, at least who isn't an antichrist. And if I could love these young JW men, I believe God definitely loves them more.

It is a matter of life and death. It is not a matter of being arrogant to ask, tell me about your salvation experience.

When a JW comes to my door, I am always cordial and am always willing to talk about the Gospel with them, but, they are so indoctrinated, that only the Holy Spirit can work on their hearts. I always sew seeds. If the soil is good soil the Lord will produce a great harvest.

Romans 8

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Regretably, I must also add these young JWs much more exhibited the fruits of the Spirit in their behavior than some mean people on message boards who claim a lease on truth, yet somehow don't know how to be even kind, at times when there's no basis for animosity. Maybe we should be moreso asking if you can be a mean, rude person and a Christian? Doesn't that involve even more fundamental doctrine some seem to have a big problem with?

You cannot conclude from a conversation with someone you have never met before in your life that they exhibited much more the fruits of the Spirit in their behavior. They are taught to be cordial, to behave kindly, etc.

I have JWs in my family and trust me they are not like the young men that came to your door.
When I was a nobody in the world, they would talk to me.
The moment the Lord saved me, they no longer talk to me.

Notice how the devil never comes and tells an UNbeliever that he/she is going straight to hell, but when the Lord saves a person, the devil comes immediately and tell him/her that they are going straight to hell?
 
You cannot conclude from a conversation with someone you have never met before in your life that they exhibited much more the fruits of the Spirit in their behavior. They are taught to be cordial, to behave kindly, etc.

True, a pagan can be cordial, and it takes time to really get to know anybody. On the other hand, I've known a decent number of people I knew were Christian, before the subject ever came up, by their abiding kindness, control others lack, selflessness and friendliness that was consistent, things of the Spirit that are impossible to fake, over the long haul. There is a certain way a true Christian behaves, of any decent length of time in the faith. There are the fruits of the Spirit, as well as Christian spiritual discernment.

Matthew 7

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

I have JWs in my family and trust me they are not like the young men that came to your door.
When I was a nobody in the world, they would talk to me.
The moment the Lord saved me, they no longer talk to me.

Notice how the devil never comes and tells an UNbeliever that he/she is going straight to hell, but when the Lord saves a person, the devil comes immediately and tell him/her that they are going straight to hell?

I've also experienced the other side of the coin, not just JWs, but they and a few other exclusive groups that have rabid members who believe, in their heart of hearts, that nobody else is saved. This is something they will seldom reveal, though, to a non-member.

You'll find most all cults have this in their doctrine, the modus operandi of cult false prophets to have doctrinal exclusives. This is where their power is derived from, hoodwinking people into thinking they have something nobody else has, that they're special, which is also seductive of peoples' egos. Exclusive false doctrines are a means of enslaving an audience, creating that power base of control over people, who can't get what they offer anywhere else. Get them to believe the exclusives are the truth, and you have a slave. In fact, there are a number of these groups with some very nasty, evil old timers. This is one reason I have difficulty holding out a lot of hope for the dyed in the wool, old members, many who are hardened cultists, of dead, dark hearts. The other reason is simply scripture, keeping in mind God does not fail:

John 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

When somebody, of any stripe, has been long in their faith and doesn't have a grip on truth, cult or whatever, this much concerns me, as it's evidence a person isn't really saved, that the Holy Spirit hasn't been operating in and on them. But I do hold out great hope for the sincere young, a long history of many emerging from all sorts of cults, who I believe were saved, despite being cult members. At the center of Christianity is repentance, a person coming to believe in and put their faith in Jesus Christ, the simple, saving gospel. Everybody even comes to Christ a sinner, much less of any doctrinal depth, salvation not a matter of being expert or even fully aware of many things of God, which can only be learned over time. One can even get this saving message from a charlatan preacher, who, himself, is on the way to hell. And to, out of the gate, state a person is not saved who claims the Lord Jesus, for being in some doctrinal error, is idiotic hypocrisy since, again, we have all been of mistaken doctrine, been steeped in ignorance, yet saved, all of us still of some mistaken doctrine, no such thing as a Bible "know it all." So, who is going to play God and determine the threshold of doctrinal error, when somebody is, at least, of profession of faith in the Lord Jesus? Who believes this even a Christian attitude, when we, ourselves, have been in error and are still, to some degree, in error of the word of God? I know I'm not certain of a body of eschatology. Also, as you mention, it's the devil in the accusation and slander business, and is that not a very poor behavioral role model for a Christian? Romans 8:33-34.

As to the accusations, yes, you're so right. The devil is all about condemnation, slander and trying to sow doubt, as soon as somebody becomes a Christian. I believe he and his demons tend to leave his own alone, on the persecution front. Actually, I'd be very concerned, as a Christian, if the devil wasn't at it. There came a time when I began to find joy in this, though, as, when his shorts are in a bunch, it's often because you're doing something right he doesn't like. It's a good thing, having something the devil really hates! (Where there's smoke, there's fire.)

Matthew 5

10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
 
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Daniel1769

New member
Your not a judge, there's only one righteous judge and that's God. None of us can say who will be saved and who won't, only God knows our hearts.

Wrong. The Bible says we "know" that we are saved in 1 John. The Bible is very clear how people are saved: By faith in Christ. If you believe you are saved by your works or by Jesus plus your works, you aren't saved. If you think you can't know if you're saved, you must not be saved. If you believed the Gospel, you would know you were saved.
 

marhig

Well-known member
Wrong. The Bible says we "know" that we are saved in 1 John. The Bible is very clear how people are saved: By faith in Christ. If you believe you are saved by your works or by Jesus plus your works, you aren't saved. If you think you can't know if you're saved, you must not be saved. If you believed the Gospel, you would know you were saved.
I know I'm being saved every day by the holy spirit putting my flesh to death and guiding me in the ways of God. I don't judge others as unsaved. When people call others unsaved they sound self righteous. And the hearts of many people seen as unsaved could be better than their own.

I'm sure that the pharasees were seen as saved by their own, and the thief on the cross seen as unsaved, but Jesus saw the hearts, and the thief was saved. And I hope that the pharasees repented and we're saved too. But at that time, it was the pharasees that had the wrong heart and the thief the right heart, we can't judge on outward appearances, and only God can truly judge our hearts, because he sees everything in us.
 

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
~You will know them by their fruits~

A person can know who and who is not a Christian, but there is a common mistake in judging on appearances and attitude.

There is also hypocrisy- there are a lot of people who preach from an ivory tower, not knowing the things they would do if they were in a position of those they've put themselves above.

The poor sees who and who is not a Christian, make no mistake- they are blessed with that gift. If you actually read the Scriptures, you will see quite plainly that the poor are empowered over gentry.

There is much warning in the Bible about the blinders that come with worldly privilege and gold.
 

beameup

New member
I studied with the JWs back before they "created" their New World Translation when they were still using the King James Version. There was not a single Hebrew or Greek scholar involved in the New World Translation - zero, zip, nada.
They had way too many problems with the King James and their JW "theology" so they simply "cut & pasted" verses out of every translation that better fit their "theology".
Since I've been familiar with their "doctrine" for many decades, I can tell you that there have been many changes over the years.
The controlling institution, the Watchtower Society, cannot be questioned. They tell you what the "truth" is and simply explain any "changes" as "new revelation".
The "terminology" used by them mimics mainstream Christian terminology, but don't be fooled, the meanings of their terminology is anything but "mainstream".
I've always categorized the movement as being the Un-Catholic religion, as they always harp on the "idolatry" of Catholicism.
The prey on the weak and lonely and poor and uneducated, especially those from Catholic countries. They always want to start a "Bible Study" in your home (you will be outnumbered).
Everyone on Planet Earth is "on the same page" when it comes to the prepared weekly "Bible Study" supplied by the Watchtower Society.
They start with a premise or topic of interest and then "pluck" verses out of context throughout the Bible to back-up their message.
 
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