Y are Black families so fragmented?

R

republicanchick

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I wonder why it is that the rate of illegitimate children among Blacks is so much higher than any other group in the US, and why it is that their families are so broken.

I realize they have their issues, think about race more often than other groups, presumably... but you'd think that that kind of thing would strengthen their ties with family, not weaken them... You know... the song comes to mind RE how Black families should stick together better


"You and me against the world... sometimes it seems like you and me against the world.. When all the others turn their backs and walk away, you can count on me to stay..."


just don't get this...



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Rusha

Rusha

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It's got be ... because they are black.

That is what your OP suggests, right?
 
Sitamun

Sitamun

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republicanchick said:
again, poverty (relative term there) does NOT cause families to break up and rather should cause them to stay together, help ea other, which of course many do that



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It is a very complex issue. The base of it is poverty. Combine that with possible/probable systemic racism. Add another layer of desperation. Desperation leads to bad decision making, which in turn could result in death or jail. Then multiply that with generations.
 
The Berean

The Berean

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About 78% of black babies are born out of wedlock. Think about that for a moment. And it's not caused by poverty. Not all black people are poor.
 
Sitamun

Sitamun

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The Berean said:
About 78% of black babies are born out of wedlock. Think about that for a moment. And it's not caused by poverty. Not all black people are poor.
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Not all black people are poor, and not all black people are born out of wedlock. I was trying to give RC an answer she could possibly understand. She only understands generalites, stereotypes, and binary thinking.
 
Town Heretic

Town Heretic

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republicanchick said:
again, poverty (relative term there) does NOT cause families to break up and rather should cause them to stay together, help ea other, which of course many do that
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Actually, the number one cause of stress and divorce in couples is financial hardship. So yeah, it does set the table for fracturing families. There's also a strong correlation between poverty and crime. And blacks are disproportionately poor.

Else, you'd have to believe there was something about being black that was at the root of this and that, I think we agree, is stuff and nonsense.

The Berean said:
About 78% of black babies are born out of wedlock. Think about that for a moment. And it's not caused by poverty. Not all black people are poor.
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Of course not, but they're disproportionately poor and, unsurprisingly, disproportionately the victim of and perpetrator of criminal activity. Out of wedlock births are a problem across racial lines, but more so in a community of poorer people.

That said, where are you getting your data?
 
The Berean

The Berean

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Town Heretic said:
Of course not, but they're disproportionately poor and, unsurprisingly, disproportionately the victim of and perpetrator of criminal activity. Out of wedlock births are a problem across racial lines, but more so in a community of poorer people.
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The out of wedlock birthrate was much lower until the 1960's (I'll try to dig up the statistics). This means that when black Americans were the most discriminated against, from the post Civil War through the height of Jim Crow the out of wedlock birthrate was lower.

Thomas Sowell wrote a book called Black Rednecks and White Liberals. Here he summarizes part of the book.


Black Rednecks and White Liberals

Thomas Sowell | 2005.05.16

Black identity has become a hot item in the movies, on television, and in the schools andcolleges. But few people are aware of how much of what passes as black identity today, including “black English,” has its roots in the history of those whites who were called “rednecks” and “crackers” centuries ago in Britain, before they ever crossed the Atlantic and settled in the South.

Saying “acrost” for “across” or “ax” for “ask” are today considered to be part of black English. But this way of talking was common centuries ago in thoseregions of Britain from which white Southerners came. They brought with them more than their own dialect. They brought a whole way of life that made antebellum white Southerners very different from white Northerners.

Violence was far more common in the South — and in those parts of Britain from which Southerners came. So was illegitimacy, lively music and dance, and a style of religious oratory marked by strident rhetoric, unbridled emotions, and flamboyant imagery. All of this would become part of the cultural legacy of blacks, who lived for centuries in the midst of the redneck culture of the South.

That culture was as notable for what it did not have as for what it had. It did not emphasizeeducation, for example, or intellectual interests in general.

Illiteracy was far more common among whites in the antebellum South than among whites in the North, and of course the blacks held in bondage in the South were virtually all illiterate. On into the early 20th century, Southern whites scored lower on mental tests than whites in other parts of the country, as blackscontinued to do.

Many aspects of Southern life that some observers have attributed to race or racism, or to slavery, were common to Southern blacks and whites alike — and were common in those parts of Britain from which Southern whites came, where there were no slaves and where most people had never seen anyone black.

Most Southern blacks and whites moved away from that redneck culture over the generations, as its consequences proved to be counterproductive or even disastrous. But it survives today among the poorest and least educated ghetto blacks.

This is a much bigger story than can fit into a newspaper column, which is why I wrote my latest book, “Black Rednecks and White Liberals.”

White liberals come into this story because, since the 1960s, they have been aiding and abetting a counterproductive ghetto lifestyle that is essentially a remnant of the redneck culture which handicapped Southern whites and blacks alike for generations.

Many among the intelligentsia portray the black redneck culture today as the only “authentic” black culture and even glamorize it. They denounce any criticism of the ghetto lifestyle or any attempt to change it.

Teachers are not supposed to correct black youngsters who speak “black English” and no one is supposed to be judgmental about the whole lifestyle of black rednecks. In that culture, belligerence is considered being manly and crudity is considered cool, while being civilized is regarded as “acting white.”

These are devastating, self-imposed handicaps that prevent many young ghetto blacks from getting a decent education or an opportunity to rise to higher levels.

Multiculturalism today celebrates all cultures but it is the poor who ultimately pay the price of that celebration in stunted development, missed opportunities and blighted lives.

No one today would dare to do what Northern missionaries did after the Civil War, set up schools for newly freed black children in the South with the explicit purpose of removing them from the redneck culture that was holding back both races there.

A wholly disproportionate number of future black leaders and pioneers in many fields came out of the relatively few and small enclaves of Northern culture deliberately planted in the post-Civil War South. What they did worked and what the multiculturalists are doing today repeatedly fails.

But results are no longer the test. The test is whether what you say makes you feel good as someone who is a “friend” of blacks. But friends like that can do more damage than enemies.
 
The Berean

The Berean

Well-known member
Town Heretic said:
Actually, the number one cause of stress and divorce in couples is financial hardship. So yeah, it does set the table for fracturing families. There's also a strong correlation between poverty and crime. And blacks are disproportionately poor.

Else, you'd have to believe there was something about being black that was at the root of this and that, I think we agree, is stuff and nonsense.


Of course not, but they're disproportionately poor and, unsurprisingly, disproportionately the victim of and perpetrator of criminal activity. Out of wedlock births are a problem across racial lines, but more so in a community of poorer people.

That said, where are you getting your data?
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I'm getting the data from the CDC. This following is for the year 2010. I was off a bit. The percentage of black babies born to unmarried mothers was 73%, not 78%.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_01.pdf


The 73% is still an absurd number. And I have some anecdotal evidence as well. Back around 1991 I dated a girl who was half black and half Puerto Rican. She was raised by her black mother. She told me that growing up she believed that black people didn't get married. Only white people got married since she didn't know a single married black couple! :doh: Of course this ex-girlfriend never got married but did have a child with a black man.
 
Town Heretic

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The Berean said:
I'm getting the data from the CDC. This following is for the year 2010. I was off a bit. The percentage of black babies born to unmarried mothers was 73%, not 78%.
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Okay, that's the data I was familiar with. Hispanics came in at around 66% in that CDC report too if I'm recalling correctly and one of the CNN anchors got in hot water for using the figures without context. Can't recall his name.
 
R

republicanchick

New member
The Berean said:
About 78% of black babies are born out of wedlock. Think about that for a moment. And it's not caused by poverty. Not all black people are poor.
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yeh, that's downright scary... 78%


when they were being oppressed by Whitey in the 60s, they had a MUCH lower rate of illegitamacy



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H

HisServant

New member
It's not just black families... its a combination of feminism, lazy young men, and a readily accessible safety net that encourages bad behavior.

If you go around in some very poor white areas it's the exact same thing. Women keep having kids because it increases their welfare checks... and men are not held accountable for child support.

We used to instill a sense of moral responsibility in our children toward the government... ever since the free love era of the 60's, we as a society have become less and less self disciplined and more concerned about our needs then the needs of our communities.

Then there is the victim and snow flake mentality that doesn't help either.
 
Angel4Truth

Angel4Truth

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The Berean said:
About 78% of black babies are born out of wedlock. Think about that for a moment. And it's not caused by poverty. Not all black people are poor.
Click to expand...

Radio ads for nightclubs that say "come and meet your next baby daddy" is a good clue to the real problem and youre right, its not about poverty.
 
A

aikido7

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Banned
republicanchick said:
I wonder why it is that the rate of illegitimate children among Blacks is so much higher than any other group in the US, and why it is that their families are so broken.

I realize they have their issues, think about race more often than other groups, presumably... but you'd think that that kind of thing would strengthen their ties with family, not weaken them... You know... the song comes to mind RE how Black families should stick together better


"You and me against the world... sometimes it seems like you and me against the world.. When all the others turn their backs and walk away, you can count on me to stay..."


just don't get this...



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Why? It is all fallout from the legacy of slavery.

Common sense--but probably not persuasive for those who still do not take racism seriously.
 
The Berean

The Berean

Well-known member
HisServant said:
It's not just black families... its a combination of feminism, lazy young men, and a readily accessible safety net that encourages bad behavior.

If you go around in some very poor white areas it's the exact same thing. Women keep having kids because it increases their welfare checks... and men are not held accountable for child support.

We used to instill a sense of moral responsibility in our children toward the government... ever since the free love era of the 60's, we as a society have become less and less self disciplined and more concerned about our needs then the needs of our communities.

Then there is the victim and snow flake mentality that doesn't help either.
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Thomas Sowell made a similar point in his book, Black Rednecks and White Liberals. He argues that "black ghetto culture" was copied from poor white Southern culture.

.
 
A

aikido7

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republicanchick said:
that doesn't pass the logic test

b/c Blacks were not so 'fragmented" in the 60s
which obviously was a time closer to slavery times


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You were probably an innocent little kid in the 60s. It's not until we get older that we pay attention to world events and develop a political culture.

Look up the history of H.Rap Brown or Stokely Carmichael. Learn about the Black Panther group.
 
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