Jesus is God.

jamie

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
keypurr said:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
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Keypurr, I feel sure you realize Hebrews and Philippians were written after Jesus' resurrection. So the only question regards your use of Colossians 1:15.

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. (Colossians 1:15)​

We have already been told that Israel is the Father's firstborn son so that should have raised the question what did Paul mean by the firstborn of all creation. That's a good question and Paul explains in Colossians 1:18.

And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. (Colossians 1:18)​

And there you have it. Jesus was not the Father's firstborn son, that was Israel (Exodus 4:22-23), but Jesus was the firstborn of the dead resurrected in an incorruptible body with immortality. He is the first of the firstfruits. (1 Corinthians 15:23)
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Prizebeatz1 said:
Exactly. That is the same spirit that is in us as well.


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I do not agree friend. The express image is not the Holy Spirit. It is the spirit son of the most high. I pray that you can understand my thoughts. It is most important to understand that God has a spiritual son with whom he created ALL. Jesus was the body prepared to hold that son. John 1 tells us that son became flesh, Phil 2 tells us the same thing. Christ took the form of man to manifest God to mankind. That is what I see that was given to me to share.

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keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
jamie said:
Keypurr, I feel sure you realize Hebrews and Philippians were written after Jesus' resurrection. So the only question regards your use of Colossians 1:15.

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. (Colossians 1:15)​

We have already been told that Israel is the Father's firstborn son so that should have raised the question what did Paul mean by the firstborn of all creation. That's a good question and Paul explains in Colossians 1:18.

And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. (Colossians 1:18)​

And there you have it. Jesus was not the Father's firstborn son, that was Israel (Exodus 4:22-23), but Jesus was the firstborn of the dead resurrected in an incorruptible body with immortality. He is the first of the firstfruits. (1 Corinthians 15:23)
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Peace

I do not see Israel as the firstborn. Israel was not at the creation, the express image was.

I know that Paul's words were written years after the fact. Yet the truth is there.

Exodus I think speaks of Israel as the chosen, first.

Jesus is the firstborn from the dead, but he is not son God used to create the Universe. That is the point. A man did not create the world, a spirit son did. The same spirit son that lived in Jesus after he was anointed. The only son that was SENT. To be sent one has to exist, Jesus did not exist at the creation. Jesus is the body spoken of in Heb 10:5.
 
Prizebeatz1

Prizebeatz1

New member
keypurr said:
I do not agree friend. The express image is not the Holy Spirit. It is the spirit son of the most high. I pray that you can understand my thoughts. It is most important to understand that God has a spiritual son with whom he created ALL. Jesus was the body prepared to hold that son. John 1 tells us that son became flesh, Phil 2 tells us the same thing. Christ took the form of man to manifest God to mankind. That is what I see that was given to me to share.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app
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I understand. I was a Catholic and that is the common interpretation. I've found it is much bigger and more meaningful than surface appearance. There is a higher meaning to Christ that is meant to be experienced. It's simply one of a number of different ways to see things but no one offers it because it's not profitable and is highly misunderstood.


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keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Prizebeatz1 said:
I understand. I was a Catholic and that is the common interpretation. I've found it is much bigger and more meaningful than surface appearance. There is a higher meaning to Christ that is meant to be experienced. It's simply one of a number of different ways to see things but no one offers it because it's not profitable and is highly misunderstood.


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I have no chains to bind me. I no longer belong to any established church. I believe that Christ is not fully seen by church fathers.

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B

Ben Masada

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jzeidler said:
If Jesus is dead why didn't anyone hang his body from Jerusalem's walls showing everyone his corpse destroying the Christian 'cult'?
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I'll tell you why. Because, when Joseph of Arimathea took him off the cross, he realized that he was still alive. He laid him in his tomb not to call any unwanted attention and went to bring his colleague Nicodemus to help him to remove Jesus into another place where they could take care of Jesus' wounds. So, when Mary Magdalene went to see the sepulcher she saw that the tomb was empty. An empty tomb is not proof that Jesus rose but that he was raised from that tomb; and this happened about an hour or two that he had been set there to rest. Don't forget that Joseph was a secret disciple of Jesus who did with Nicodemus every thing in secret.
 
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jamie

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
keypurr said:
I do not see Israel as the firstborn.
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Ok, but it has now been explained to you and if you continue to claim the preincarnate Christ was a son then you will be bearing false witness against Jesus Christ. This will preclude you from the first resurrection, which is the better resurrection.

The Father seeks those who will worship in Spirit and truth.
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Ben Masada said:
I'll tell you why. Because, when Joseph of Arimathea took him off the cross, he realized that he was still
alive. He laid him in his tomb not to call any unwanted attention and went to bring his colleague Nicodemus
to help him to remove Jesus into another place where they could take care of Jesus' wounds. So, when Mary Magdalene went to see the sepulcher saw that the tomb was empty. An empty tomb is not proof that Jesus rose but that he was raised from that tomb; and this happened about an hour or two that he had set there to rest. Don't forget that Joseph was a secret disciple of Jesus who did with Nicodemus every thing in secret.
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I do not agree with you Ben.

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keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
jamie said:
Ok, but it has now been explained to you and if you continue to claim the preincarnate Christ was a son then you will be bearing false witness against Jesus Christ. This will preclude you from the first resurrection, which is the better resurrection.

The Father seeks those who will worship in Spirit and truth.
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Your standing in the place of my saviour right now. Your judging me on things you do not understand. I will stick with my thoughts on firstborn.

God created all through his first creation. You don't wish to see what I see in what the EXPRESS IMAGE is. It goes against all you have been taught. Jesus Christ is my Lord, not my God. I have the courage and conviction to support my thoughts.

The son was with God at the creation. All was created through the spirit son Christ. Christ has to be the firstborn of all creatures/creation. First there was God, then his express image was created and the Father was pleased that it has his fullness. That means the spirit son is a form of God.

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dodge

dodge

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Ben Masada said:
You have all that right in the world Keypurr but never to expect that I agree with your Christian preconceived notions about a Jew who never had any thing to do with the gospel of Paul, aka the NT.
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If you never understand this verse and humble yourself before God you will not go to heaven.

Luk 22:20
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
keypurr said:
Your standing in the place of my saviour right now. Your judging me on things you do not understand. I will stick with my thoughts on firstborn.

God created all through his first creation. You don't wish to see what I see in what the EXPRESS IMAGE is. It goes against all you have been taught. Jesus Christ is my Lord, not my God. I have the courage and conviction to support my thoughts.

The son was with God at the creation. All was created through the spirit son Christ. Christ has to be the firstborn of all creatures/creation. First there was God, then his express image was created and the Father was pleased that it has his fullness. That means the spirit son is a form of God.

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Click to expand...

No one knows better about a Jew than another Jew. You know that Jesus was a Jew and denies that Jesus lived as a Jew. You rather claim that he lived according to the gospel of Paul aka the NT. You know this is wrong but, instead of refuting me, you appeal to Paul the founder of Christianity. (Acts 11:26)
 
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