antipas

D

daqq

Well-known member
Wick Stick said:
Anti- doesn't mean "against" in the sense of making war. It means it in the sense of "in place of."

Remember: Apposition; not Opposition.

Jarrod
Click to expand...

It can actually mean both and it does in this case, (I simply chose to use what someone else had written and went with that because it was not the main point to begin with). The days in which Messiah died in our place, (anti) were also the days against all: for thus I judge, and I have Paul with me in this, that if one died for all, then surely all died in the great Day of Atonement at Golgotha, yea, even every living soul in the sea died, (Revelation 16:3). :)
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Wick Stick said:
Anti- doesn't mean "against" in the sense of making war. It means it in the sense of "in place of."

Remember: Apposition; not Opposition.

Jarrod
Click to expand...

Here are some examples of "anti" as used in a compound word, (such as Antipas) where it is used to denote opposition:

Matthew 5:25
25. Agree with thine adversary [GSN#0476 anti-dikos] quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary [GSN#0476 anti-dikos] deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Strong's Ref. #476
Romanized antidikos
Pronounced an-tid'-ee-kos
from GSN0473 and GSN1349; an opponent (in a lawsuit); specially, Satan (as the arch-enemy):
KJV--adversary.

Strong's Ref. #473
Romanized anti
Pronounced an-tee'
a primary particle; opposite, i.e. instead or because of (rarely in addition to):
KJV--for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.

Original Strong's Ref. #1349
Romanized dike
Pronounced dee'-kay
probably from GSN1166; right (as self-evident), i.e. justice (the principle, a decision, or its execution):
KJV--judgment, punish, vengeance.

Thus the compound word "anti-dikos" has the meaning of an adversary or opponent, (against). Truly the Herodians are looked at in such a way, as Yeshua even calls Herod Antipas "that fox", and what hides in fox holes in the Septuagint? That would be the Amorites, (devils in the doctrine of Yeshua). In Luke 8:26 we find another such compound usage:

Luke 8:26 KJV
26. And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against [GSN#0495 anti-peran] Galilee.

Original Strong's Ref. #495
Romanized antiperan
Pronounced an-tee-per'-an
from GSN0473 and GSN4008; on the opposite side:
KJV--over against.

So when anti is employed with another word, to make a compound word, it can indeed be meant in the sense of opposition, even an adversary, even a devil. The compound word anti-pas is therefore now even more likely to have been a prophetic play on words because Messiah was crucified in the days of Herod Antipas and Yeshua is called the Faithful Witness two other places in the same book:

Revelation 1:5 Transliterated
5. kai apo Iesou Christou ho martus ho pistos ho prototokos ton nekron kai ho archon ton basileon tes ges: to agaponti hemas kai lusanti hemas ek ton hamartion hemon en to haimati autou

Revelation 2:13 Transliterated
13. Oida pou katoikeis hopou ho thronos tou Satana kai krateis to onoma mou kai ouk ernesoten pistin mou kai en tais hemerais antipas ho martus mou ho pistos mou hos apektanthe par humin hopou ho Satanas katoikei

Revelation 3:14 Transliterated
14. Kai to angelo tes en Laodikeia ekklesias grapson: Tade legei ho amen ho martus ho pistos kai alethinos he arche tes ktiseos tou Theou

The phrase "ho Martus ho Pistos", (though not including "mou" which is me, of me, my, mine, or mine own) appears in two other places where it is specifically written only concerning Yeshua, (even as a title). What then of the instance we find in Revelation 2:13? This fact should bear much weight in our understanding of that passage. Clearly there is a disconnect somewhere because it is highly unlikely that the author would use such terminology for another person when the same words are employed only for Yeshua elsewhere in the same writing. :)
 
W

Wick Stick

Well-known member
daqq said:
Here are some examples of "anti" as used in a compound word, (such as Antipas) where it is used to denote opposition:

Matthew 5:25
25. Agree with thine adversary [GSN#0476 anti-dikos] quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary [GSN#0476 anti-dikos] deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Strong's Ref. #476
Romanized antidikos
Pronounced an-tid'-ee-kos
from GSN0473 and GSN1349; an opponent (in a lawsuit); specially, Satan (as the arch-enemy):
KJV--adversary.

Strong's Ref. #473
Romanized anti
Pronounced an-tee'
a primary particle; opposite, i.e. instead or because of (rarely in addition to):
KJV--for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.

Original Strong's Ref. #1349
Romanized dike
Pronounced dee'-kay
probably from GSN1166; right (as self-evident), i.e. justice (the principle, a decision, or its execution):
KJV--judgment, punish, vengeance.

Thus the compound word "anti-dikos" has the meaning of an adversary or opponent, (against). Truly the Herodians are looked at in such a way, as Yeshua even calls Herod Antipas "that fox", and what hides in fox holes in the Septuagint? That would be the Amorites, (devils in the doctrine of Yeshua). In Luke 8:26 we find another such compound usage:

Luke 8:26 KJV
26. And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against [GSN#0495 anti-peran] Galilee.

Original Strong's Ref. #495
Romanized antiperan
Pronounced an-tee-per'-an
from GSN0473 and GSN4008; on the opposite side:
KJV--over against.

So when anti is employed with another word, to make a compound word, it can indeed be meant in the sense of opposition, even an adversary, even a devil. The compound word anti-pas is therefore now even more likely to have been a prophetic play on words because Messiah was crucified in the days of Herod Antipas and Yeshua is called the Faithful Witness two other places in the same book:

Revelation 1:5 Transliterated
5. kai apo Iesou Christou ho martus ho pistos ho prototokos ton nekron kai ho archon ton basileon tes ges: to agaponti hemas kai lusanti hemas ek ton hamartion hemon en to haimati autou

Revelation 2:13 Transliterated
13. Oida pou katoikeis hopou ho thronos tou Satana kai krateis to onoma mou kai ouk ernesoten pistin mou kai en tais hemerais antipas ho martus mou ho pistos mou hos apektanthe par humin hopou ho Satanas katoikei

Revelation 3:14 Transliterated
14. Kai to angelo tes en Laodikeia ekklesias grapson: Tade legei ho amen ho martus ho pistos kai alethinos he arche tes ktiseos tou Theou

The phrase "ho Martus ho Pistos", (though not including "mou" which is me, of me, my, mine, or mine own) appears in two other places where it is specifically written only concerning Yeshua, (even as a title). What then of the instance we find in Revelation 2:13? This fact should bear much weight in our understanding of that passage. Clearly there is a disconnect somewhere because it is highly unlikely that the author would use such terminology for another person when the same words are employed only for Yeshua elsewhere in the same writing. :)
Click to expand...
It still means in place of, or in the position apposite. You just picked a couple other roots that skew that way...

Anti-dikos is literally "sitting across from justice" evoking the ancient judicial system in which the plaintiff sits on the judge's left and the defendant on the right. Hence the verses "come sit at my right hand," indicating the vindication of the defendant.

Anti-peran is literally "sitting across from the face," so it is the other face of a mountain, or the back of the head.

Sorry for the off-topic

Jarrod
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Wick Stick said:
It still means in place of, or in the position apposite. You just picked a couple other roots that skew that way...

Anti-dikos is literally "sitting across from justice" evoking the ancient judicial system in which the plaintiff sits on the judge's left and the defendant on the right. Hence the verses "come sit at my right hand," indicating the vindication of the defendant.

Anti-peran is literally "sitting across from the face," so it is the other face of a mountain, or the back of the head.

Sorry for the off-topic

Jarrod
Click to expand...

The meanings of names are important in the scripture and often given far less weight than they should be given. In this case the thread title is "antipas" so I do not see how this is off topic being that "anti" is half of the name of the thread title. In addition the only real way to understand the meanings of names and words from two thousand year old writings, from other cultures, is by the context in which they are written. Therefore I will post the following to drive the point home and give you the last word concerning this subject matter if you so decide to respond. Otherwise, knowing that you are probably not going to change your mind, hopefully the following will at least make perfectly clear what was already stated from what is actually written in the scriptures if, by chance, someone else might have been interested:

Acts 18:6 KJV
6. And when they opposed themselves, [GSN#0498 anti-tassomai] and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean; from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

Original Strong's Ref. #498
Romanized antitassomai
Pronounced an-tee-tas'-som-ahee
from GSN0473 and the middle voice of GSN5021; to range oneself against, i.e. oppose:
KJV--oppose themselves, resist.

Acts 28:19 KJV
19. But when the Jews spake against [GSN#0483 anti-lego] it, I was constrained to appeal unto Caesar; not that I had ought to accuse my nation of.

Acts 28:22 KJV
22. But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against [GSN#0483 anti-lego].

Original Strong's Ref. #483
Romanized antilego
Pronounced an-til'-eg-o
from GSN0473 and GSN3004; to dispute, refuse:
KJV--answer again, contradict, deny, gainsay(-er), speak against.

2 Timothy 2:25 KJV
25. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; [GSN#0475 anti-diatithemai] if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Original Strong's Ref. #475
Romanized antidiatithemai
Pronounced an-tee-dee-at-eeth'-em-ahee
from GSN0473 and GSN1303; to set oneself opposite, i.e. be disputatious:
KJV--that oppose themselves.

Romans 7:23 KJV
23. But I see another law in my members, warring against [GSN#0497 anti-strateuomai] the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Original Strong's Ref. #497
Romanized antistrateuomai
Pronounced an-tee-strat-yoo'-om-ahee
from GSN0473 and GSN4754; (figuratively) to attack, i.e. (by implication) destroy:
KJV--war against.

Hebrews 12:4 KJV
4. Ye have not yet resisted [GSN#0478 anti-kathistemi] unto blood, striving against [GSN#0464 anti-agonizomai] sin.

Original Strong's Ref. #478
Romanized antikathistemi
Pronounced an-tee-kath-is'-tay-mee
from GSN0473 and GSN2525; to set down (troops) against, i.e. withstand:
KJV--resist.

Original Strong's Ref. #464
Romanized antagonizomai
Pronounced an-tag-o-nid'-zom-ahee
from GSN0473 and GSN0075; to struggle against (figuratively) ["antagonize"]:
KJV--strive against.

James 4:7 KJV
7. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist [GSN#0436 anti-histemi] the devil, and he will flee from you.

Original Strong's Ref. #436
Romanized anthistemi
Pronounced anth-is'-tay-mee
from GSN0473 and GSN2476; to stand against, i.e. oppose:
KJV--resist, withstand.

1 Peter 5:8 KJV
8. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary [GSN#0476 anti-dikos] the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

:sheep:
 
W

Wick Stick

Well-known member
In addition the only real way to understand the meanings of names and words from two thousand year old writings, from other cultures, is by the context in which they are written.
Click to expand...
Disagree. Like any other topic of study, you can brute-force it in this manner, studying every usage of the name and its context. Thayer's lexicon does.

Or, you can understand the theory of how the language works, and then apply the theory. I prefer the latter approach.

In practice, anti-something often ends up being opposed to the something, so the brute force method yields this up as a meaning. But from a language theory standpoint, anti refers to apposition or replacement. It just so happens that apposition is frequently due to opposition, if that makes any sense.

Jarrod
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
1Mind1Spirit said:
Those old church father's took many liberties with changing scripture.


Nobody described days by the death of anyone.

Days were determined by a length of rule by a king.

Therefore the days were of Antipas, wherein Christ's faithful were slain.

The way it was translated......

Revelation 2:13 KJV
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest , even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth .

The way John most likely wrote it............

Revelation 2:13 KJV
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest , even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days of Antipas, wherein my faithful were slain among you, where Satan dwelleth .
Click to expand...

Days were marked by the reign of kings not martyrs.

So when and who is Jesus talking about?

I would say the days of Herod Antipas, wherein were those who were vexed.



Acts 12:1 KJV

1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.


Who were the faithful martyred in those days?

Was it not Stephen and James, not forgetting all those that the fire breathing Saul delivered to be killed?
 
Last edited:
D

daqq

Well-known member
1Mind1Spirit said:
Days were marked by the reign of kings not martyrs.

So when and who is Jesus talking about?

I would say the days of Herod Antipas, wherein were those who were vexed.



Acts 12:1 KJV

1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.


Who were the faithful martyred in those days?

Was it not Stephen and James, not forgetting all those that the fire breathing Saul delivered to be killed?
Click to expand...

Certainly better than suggesting that "Antipas", the supposed faithful witness and martyr of 92CE, died "in the place of all", (just one more reason why neither Yochanan nor the Son of God would have used such a name, in such a way, in such a passage, in such a book). Also see: Prophets and Mythos #3, the verb αντειπας, (anteipas), is found in Codex Alexandrinus and not only there but several other manuscripts while it has been altered or "corrected" in Sinaiticus, (thus two of the four most important codices to Christianity do not contain "Antipas" while a third, Vaticanus, is not written in the original Uncial text because the end of the codex was lost). However the Herod of Acts 12:1 is assumed by most to have been Herod Agrippa I because of what is written at the end of that chapter. :)
 
Last edited:
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
daqq said:
Certainly better than suggesting that "Antipas", the supposed faithful witness and martyr of 92CE, died "in the place of all", (just one more reason why neither Yochanan nor the Son of God would have used such a name, in such a way, in such a passage, in such a book).
Click to expand...

:)


However the Herod of Acts 12:1 is assumed by most to have been Herod Agrippa I because of what is written at the end of that chapter. :)
Click to expand...

Yes, I know what is assumed. :)
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
antipas is not in the first version of the apocalypse
because
john the baptist wrote it

he was preparing the way

are you?
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
tertulian in the third century
knows about antipas
but
victorinus and eusebius in the fourth century do not

they were not looking at the same apocalypse
 
everready

everready

New member
Antipas

Antipas

You got my curiosity up so i went looking, could this be antipas?

Antipas

"Antipas is the proper name of a man; so a son of Herod was called, even he that beheaded John, and mocked Christ: and there might be a man of this name at Pergamos, that might suffer martyrdom for the Gospel of Christ; and who was an emblem of the confessors, witnesses, and martyrs, that suffered for Christ, in this period of time, through their opposition to the popes of Rome; for Antipas is the contraction of Antipater, and is the same with Antipapas, or Antipappas, which signifies one that is against the pope,

an opposer of that holy father; and so intends all those that made head against him, upon his rising and revelation, and when he assumed the power he did to himself; such as the Waldenses and Albigenses particularly, who set themselves against him, openly declared that the pope was antichrist, and that his government was tyrannical, and his doctrines the doctrines of devils, abominable and fabulous.

They bore a faithful testimony against all his corruptions and innovations, and became martyrs in the cause of Christ, many thousands of them being slain for his sake within the dominions of this firstborn of Satan. The Alexandrian copy reads 'Anteipas'; and his name is left out in the Syriac and Arabic versions."

(The New John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible)

http://philologos.org/bpr/files/a004.htm?PageSpeed=noscript


everready
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
eusebius
and
vitorinus
do not mention antipas
one reason for that
is
their version of the apocalypse did not mention antipas
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top