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Thread: Discussion-One on One: Abortion (red77 vs. Turbo)

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    Proverbs 31:10 ebenz47037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrRadish View Post
    I don't. Part of the scenario was the that there is no way to save the child. It would invariably die, regardless of any action on the part of the parent. It was to that supposition, and that supposition only, that advocated the parent eating the child. Of course I wouldn't advocate cannibalism in any other circumstance! What do you take me for??
    The thing is that I would give my life to protect that of my child.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebenz47037 View Post
    The thing is that I would give my life to protect that of my child.
    Indeed, as would I, but the the way I interpreted the sitatuation was that there was no way of protecting the life of the child. If the child had died but its death could sustain me for longer, I would actually view it as disrespectful not to use that opportunity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebenz47037 View Post
    The thing is that I would give my life to protect that of my child.
    so how would you protect your child from further pain, shame, suffering and humiliation if your child was 11 years old and fell pregnant from a pack rape?

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    Proverbs 31:10 ebenz47037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenda View Post
    so how would you protect your child from further pain, shame, suffering and humiliation if your child was 11 years old and fell pregnant from a pack rape?
    I've been raped, Glenda. And, I know all about the fear of being pregnant by my rapist. Fortunately, I didn't have to deal with something else that I found immoral because they hadn't come up with the day after pill, yet. I would get as much Christian counseling as I could find for my daughter. I would stand beside her throughout the pregnancy (she doesn't believe in abortion any more than I do). I would raise the child for her until she was an adult, and beyond if she couldn't handle having the child of the man who raped her. I would make sure that she knew that it was not her fault that these men chose to use and abuse her the way they did. I would do everything that my own mother didn't do when I was raped.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poly View Post
    Debate found here.

    I can't see how anybody can read this and not see that Turbo is seriously winning the debate.

    When red77 admitted that "relieving suffering by causing others to suffer is wrong", he pretty much lost the debate right there. Every time he suggests that a woman has a right to to have an abortion for whatever reason he goes against what he said because he advocates relieving suffering by making another suffer.




    I honestly had to read this twice just to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding. This is a pathetic and incredibly twisted thing to say.
    Why is this thread in this forum section when 'politics' forum section is where abortion is discussed according to description of that forum?:
    Politics
    Current Events, Abortion, homosexuality, gun control, public schools, welfare, taxes, government etc.

    The religion section of the forum doesn't seem to include such a discussion
    Religion
    Discuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.

    Outside that, the grandstands seems to be where people can discuss what they haven't been welcomed into adding their comments to:
    The Grandstands
    The grandstands are where we in the "peanut gallery" can discuss the battle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebenz47037 View Post
    I've been raped, Glenda. And, I know all about the fear of being pregnant by my rapist. Fortunately, I didn't have to deal with something else that I found immoral because they hadn't come up with the day after pill, yet. I would get as much Christian counseling as I could find for my daughter. I would stand beside her throughout the pregnancy (she doesn't believe in abortion any more than I do). I would raise the child for her until she was an adult, and beyond if she couldn't handle having the child of the man who raped her. I would make sure that she knew that it was not her fault that these men chose to use and abuse her the way they did. I would do everything that my own mother didn't do when I was raped.
    Are we discussing a young child of 11 years old (primary school age) when considering your daughter?
    Also, what if your daughter was not against aborting? Would you take her choice into consideration?

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    Proverbs 31:10 ebenz47037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenda View Post
    Are we discussing a young child of 11 years old (primary school age) when considering your daughter?
    I was considering her when she was eleven. Yes. She's older now. But, that doesn't change the fact that since she's known what abortion was (ten years old because my sister had one) she's believed that they're wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebenz47037 View Post
    I was considering her when she was eleven. Yes. She's older now. But, that doesn't change the fact that since she's known what abortion was (ten years old because my sister had one) she's believed that they're wrong.
    Thanks for clarifying.
    Not every family is so blessed to have knowledge or unity or support in such things and I certainly wouldn't condemn anyone for acting differently in this scenario in lack of such knowledge or unity or support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poly View Post
    Debate found here.

    I can't see how anybody can read this and not see that Turbo is seriously winning the debate.

    When red77 admitted that "relieving suffering by causing others to suffer is wrong", he pretty much lost the debate right there. Every time he suggests that a woman has a right to to have an abortion for whatever reason he goes against what he said because he advocates relieving suffering by making another suffer.
    People can make their own minds up, and it cuts both ways when it comes to the argument about suffering, if you think that it's justifiable for a woman to have complications and die as a result of a pregnancy gone wrong then you are placing the suffering of the mother underneath the suffering of the foetus, one way or another someone will suffer and you place more rights on the foetus


    I honestly had to read this twice just to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding. This is a pathetic and incredibly twisted thing to say.
    Why? Why should the woman be expected to forfeit her own life? There's nothing she can do for the child in this scenario and she could theoretically survive, lets take the scenario further, suppose the mother had more children who are dependant on her and they will be in danger if she doesn't survive, would it be ok then? Or should she be expected to die herself and have her other children possibly die as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rexlunae View Post
    Turbo is definitely winning.

    I think his advantage is that his position is internally consistent, at least as far as their discussion has gone so far. red77 seems to be taking a position that unborn babies possess the same rights as anyone else, but that there are also cases where their rights are essentially mute. This seems pretty indefensible to me.

    If red77 wanted to win, he'd have to attack the premise that an unborn fetus possesses the same moral status as a young post-natal child, but I'm not sure he's prepared to do that, and it would involve a lot of backpedaling.
    the point is that in the scenarios we're discussing equal rights become mute themselves, one either has to place the rights of the born over the unborn and vice versa depending on which side of the fence you stand....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenda View Post
    so how would you protect your child from further pain, shame, suffering and humiliation if your child was 11 years old and fell pregnant from a pack rape?
    Let me ask you again...


    Where and when did this happen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stipe View Post
    I'd be a grandfather a lot sooner

    Yes, that is something good from a horrible situation. Deal with it.
    You do realise that you would be putting your child at physical risk to force her to go through with the pregnancy right?

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    Just livin' life one day at a time. Poly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenda View Post
    Why is this thread in this forum section when 'politics' forum section is where abortion is discussed according to description of that forum?:
    Politics
    Current Events, Abortion, homosexuality, gun control, public schools, welfare, taxes, government etc.

    The religion section of the forum doesn't seem to include such a discussion
    Religion
    Discuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.

    Outside that, the grandstands seems to be where people can discuss what they haven't been welcomed into adding their comments to:
    The Grandstands
    The grandstands are where we in the "peanut gallery" can discuss the battle.
    I don't think I've ever seen such a fuss over where a thread is located.

    Ok, the thread has now been moved.




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    Proverbs 31:10 ebenz47037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenda View Post
    Thanks for clarifying.
    Not every family is so blessed to have knowledge or unity or support in such things and I certainly wouldn't condemn anyone for acting differently in this scenario in lack of such knowledge or unity or support.
    Okay. I talked to my daughter about this thread, today. When I told her that I had said she knew what abortion was when she was about ten, she said, "Mom, Nana told me what abortion was when I was about seven after I had seen a commercial about it on TV at her house." She had never told me that before.

    Anyway, I asked her what she would want me to do if she was eleven years old and was raped and got pregnant. She said, "I would want to have the baby and have you raise it for me until I was at least eighteen." When I asked her why, she said, "Number one, abortion is killing a baby. You don't execute someone who hasn't committed a murder. So, why would you kill a baby when the father raped me? Number two, I know that you wanted me to stay a kid as long as I could. I'm glad you did that. If I were to get pregnant from a rape, I would want you to raise the baby for me because I know that I couldn't do it myself. I don't know if I would be able to handle taking the baby later or not. But, if I was eleven, and pregnant by a rapist, I know I couldn't handle it."
    They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles. -- Isaiah 40:31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poly View Post
    I don't think I've ever seen such a fuss over where a thread is located.

    Ok, the thread has now been moved.




    Now quit your whinin', ya big baby!

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