The Trinity

The Trinity


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KingdomRose

New member
Rev.ch s 4 and 5 verify that truth.

Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.


Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book
out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Rev 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.





and also Heb. chs 1 and 2

Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.


Heb 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make ]the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

IF any do not believe that, they follow the antichrists.

LA

Well, it looks as though you need to do some more research. Heb.1:8 quotes the O.T. Psalm 45:6. That Psalm, taken straight from the Jewish Publication Society Tanakh, doesn't say anything about the subject of the verses being God.

"Your arrows, sharpened, pierce the breast of the king's enemies; people fall at your feet. Your divine throne is everlasting; your royal scepter is a scepter of equity. You love righteousness and hate wickedness; rightly has GOD, YOUR GOD, chosen to anoint you with oil of gladness over all your peers." (Psalm 45, verses 6-8)

So when the writer of Hebrews quoted from this, did he write that the Son was God? No, and it can be understood that "Your throne, O God" was never the correct translation. "Your DIVINE throne," or, "God is your throne" (the power behind the throne), are correct. How can someone (erroneously) translate Heb.1:8 as "Your throne O God" when in the very next verse it says that the Son HAS a God????

Start thinking, Lazy Afternoon.


:think:
 

KingdomRose

New member
All verse 15 gives is Jesus position as the firstborn over all creation. Is He not the firstborn from the dead never to die again?

It doesn't say "over" all creation. It says OF creation! He was PART of the creation! The very early church fathers realized that this meant that Jesus was created, and they immediately set about to twist the meaning so no one would really pay attention to it. They came up with silly meanings like what you present.

:crackup:
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
It doesn't say "over" all creation. It says OF creation! He was PART of the creation! The very early church fathers realized that this meant that Jesus was created, and they immediately set about to twist the meaning so no one would really pay attention to it. They came up with silly meanings like what you present.

:crackup:

No dummy, that isn't what it says. It says He was the firstborn of creation. In no sense does it say or intimate that He is part of creation. That is a FALSE teaching of your cult. It is also commonly known that those of the early Fathers that say He was created were branded as heretics just as they are today. You can try to twist scripture all you want but it ain't gonna fly on a Christian forum. Totally ignored post 859 eh.
 

KingdomRose

New member
No dummy, that isn't what it says. It says He was the firstborn of creation. In no sense does it say or intimate that He is part of creation. That is a FALSE teaching of your cult. It is also commonly known that those of the early Fathers that say He was created were branded as heretics just as they are today. You can try to twist scripture all you want but it ain't gonna fly on a Christian forum. Totally ignored post 859 eh.

You refuse to concede a good point when it is presented to you. You just won't analyze someone's post and helpfully address what it is saying. You ignore the point and ram-rod right over it and just call names. It's pathetic. Your erroneous beliefs will be totally shown up when Jesus comes back to end this crazy system of things and implement Jehovah's plans for a new cleaned-up Earth...Paradise.


Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:9-11; Isaiah 11:6-9
 

Right Divider

Body part
Joh 5:21-23 KJV For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. (22) For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: (23) That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
If you anti-trinitarians really think that the LORD GOD Almighty would give ALL JUDGMENT to one of His created beings, there is no hope for you.
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
You refuse to concede a good point when it is presented to you. You just won't analyze someone's post and helpfully address what it is saying. You ignore the point and ram-rod right over it and just call names. It's pathetic. Your erroneous beliefs will be totally shown up when Jesus comes back to end this crazy system of things and implement Jehovah's plans for a new cleaned-up Earth...Paradise.


Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:9-11; Isaiah 11:6-9

I am anxiously awaiting His return. You may be surprised at what happens when He does.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Joh 5:21-23 KJV For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. (22) For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: (23) That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
If you anti-trinitarians really think that the LORD GOD Almighty would give ALL JUDGMENT to one of His created beings, there is no hope for you.

Why Not? He gave him his fullness.
 

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

~Isaiah 9:6


Watch them go around this verse as well :rolleyes:
You can't convince a person in denial, they have to accept the truth themselves.
 

CherubRam

New member
He always had it -- John 1:1

It's too bad that you let language confuse you.
John 1:1
In English we have:
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with The Only Divine Eternal, and Divine was the Word.


In regards to that verse in John:
The word "Divine" is a TRANSLATION, and the word "God" is an INTERPRETATION.
 

CherubRam

New member
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

~Isaiah 9:6


Watch them go around this verse as well :rolleyes:
You can't convince a person in denial, they have to accept the truth themselves.
The translation of your Isaiah 9:6 is not correct. It should read: called wonderful counselor, of the Mighty God, and Everlasting Father, ministering in peace.
 

CherubRam

New member
In Judaism, trinitarianism being taught would be punishable by death. God says that He is alone and that there are no others but Him. Where do you see the word "Trinity" being used in the bible?
 

Right Divider

Body part
John 1:1
In English we have:
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with The Only Divine Eternal, and Divine was the Word.


In regards to that verse in John:
The word "Divine" is a TRANSLATION, and the word "God" is an INTERPRETATION.
Where do you get this nonsense?
 

CherubRam

New member
Where do you get this nonsense?

Commentary on John 1:1.



Pantheion

Greek pantheion, from pan 'all' + theion 'Divine Eternal-s' (from theios 'divine.')
From Greek aion, meaning Eternal, for an infinite amount of time Pantheion: Pan/the/ion. All Divine Eternal-s. The word “All” makes it plural.

aeon or aion or eon
1. An immeasurably long period of time. From Greek, Aion, an infinitely long time.

Greek word TON and THEON.
From the Scripture4All program. Link: www.scripture4all.org/

The Greek word "TON" is translated 1583 times as "the;" And 18 times as "the -one." It is used before nouns to mean a {certain-one-person-s,} or place, or thing. However, different translations of Greek do not always agree. That is the reason for my interpretation of John 1:1 as "the only Divine Eternal." In English the word “one” can also be translated as “only.” TON: The only. THEON: Divine Eternal.

John 1:1

Greek:
en arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos

Interlinear:
en (in) arche (beginning) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word) kai (and) ho (the) logos (Word) en (was) pos (toward or with) ton (TON is a special definite article "the" meaning the one or only, it appears as TON instead of O in the Greek) theon (Divine Eternal) kai (and) theos (Divine) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word)

In English we have:
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the (one or only) Divine Eternal, and Divine was the Word.

The defining article "a" must be supplied for the English language, to define that there is another Divine that is not the "Divine Eternal."

Why do translators drop off the definite article TON (the one or only) before Divine Eternal?



Theon and Theos
They both mean Divine, but in different cases. Theos is the nominative, Theon is accusative. Another form is Theou, which is genitive.

John 1:1 reads: “In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [τὸν θεὸν, (TON THEON) literally, The Only Divine Eternal], and the Word was divine. [θεὸς].”

In the first instance (“the Word was with The Only Divine Eternal”) it is in the accusative case and thus is spelled θεὸν [theon] But in the second occurrence it is in the nominative case, and so it is spelled θεὸς [theos]

Ton Theon was also applied to Zeus, meaning "The Only Divine Eternal."

Eon or Aeon; a very long time.
The word aeon, also spelled eon or æon, originally means "life", and / or "being", though it then tended to mean "age", "forever" or "for eternity". It is a Latin transliteration from the koine Greek word ὁ αἰών (ho aion), from the archaic αἰϝών (aiwon).

In Homer it typically refers to life or lifespan. Its latest meaning is more or less similar to the Sanskrit word kalpa and Hebrew word olam. A cognate Latin word aevum or aeuum (cf. αἰϝών) for "age" is present in words such as longevity.

Although the term aeon may be used in reference to a period of a billion years, its more common usage is for any long, indefinite, period.

Eternity or age
The Bible translation is a treatment of the Hebrew word olam and the Greek word aion. Both these words have similar meaning, and Young's Literal Translation renders them and their derivatives as “age” or “age-during”. Other English versions most often translate them to indicate eternity, being translated as eternal, everlasting, forever, etc. However, there are notable exceptions to this in all major translations, such as Matthew 28:20: “…I am with you always, to the end of the age” (NRSV), the word “age” being a translation of aion.
Rendering aion to indicate eternality in this verse would result in the contradictory phrase “end of eternity”, so the question arises whether it should ever be so.

Contrast readings of Matthew 25:46 in well-known English translations with its rendering in Young's Literal Translation:
And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during. (YLT)

Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. (NIV)

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (NASB)

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal. (KJV)

And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life. (NWT)

The word "Divine" is a translation, and the word "god" is an interpretation. The reason the word "god" is an interpretation, is because it derived from the name of a Pagan god.



Additional Note.
Theosophy
Theosophy (from Greek θεοσοφία theosophia, from θεός theos, divine + σοφία sophia, wisdom; literally "divine wisdom")

The word theosophia appeared in both Greek and Latin in early Christian writings as a synonym for “theology”. The theosophoi are “those who know divine matters.”
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Commentary on John 1:1.



Pantheion

Greek pantheion, from pan 'all' + theion 'Divine Eternal-s' (from theios 'divine.')
From Greek aion, meaning Eternal, for an infinite amount of time Pantheion: Pan/the/ion. All Divine Eternal-s. The word “All” makes it plural.

aeon or aion or eon
1. An immeasurably long period of time. From Greek, Aion, an infinitely long time.

Greek word TON and THEON.
From the Scripture4All program. Link: www.scripture4all.org/

The Greek word "TON" is translated 1583 times as "the;" And 18 times as "the -one." It is used before nouns to mean a {certain-one-person-s,} or place, or thing. However, different translations of Greek do not always agree. That is the reason for my interpretation of John 1:1 as "the only Divine Eternal." In English the word “one” can also be translated as “only.” TON: The only. THEON: Divine Eternal.

John 1:1

Greek:
en arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos

Interlinear:
en (in) arche (beginning) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word) kai (and) ho (the) logos (Word) en (was) pos (toward or with) ton (TON is a special definite article "the" meaning the one or only, it appears as TON instead of O in the Greek) theon (Divine Eternal) kai (and) theos (Divine) en (was) ho (the) logos (Word)

In English we have:
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the (one or only) Divine Eternal, and Divine was the Word.

The defining article "a" must be supplied for the English language, to define that there is another Divine that is not the "Divine Eternal."

Why do translators drop off the definite article TON (the one or only) before Divine Eternal?



Theon and Theos
They both mean Divine, but in different cases. Theos is the nominative, Theon is accusative. Another form is Theou, which is genitive.

John 1:1 reads: “In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [τὸν θεὸν, (TON THEON) literally, The Only Divine Eternal], and the Word was divine. [θεὸς].”

In the first instance (“the Word was with The Only Divine Eternal”) it is in the accusative case and thus is spelled θεὸν [theon] But in the second occurrence it is in the nominative case, and so it is spelled θεὸς [theos]

Ton Theon was also applied to Zeus, meaning "The Only Divine Eternal."

Eon or Aeon; a very long time.
The word aeon, also spelled eon or æon, originally means "life", and / or "being", though it then tended to mean "age", "forever" or "for eternity". It is a Latin transliteration from the koine Greek word ὁ αἰών (ho aion), from the archaic αἰϝών (aiwon).

In Homer it typically refers to life or lifespan. Its latest meaning is more or less similar to the Sanskrit word kalpa and Hebrew word olam. A cognate Latin word aevum or aeuum (cf. αἰϝών) for "age" is present in words such as longevity.

Although the term aeon may be used in reference to a period of a billion years, its more common usage is for any long, indefinite, period.

Eternity or age
The Bible translation is a treatment of the Hebrew word olam and the Greek word aion. Both these words have similar meaning, and Young's Literal Translation renders them and their derivatives as “age” or “age-during”. Other English versions most often translate them to indicate eternity, being translated as eternal, everlasting, forever, etc. However, there are notable exceptions to this in all major translations, such as Matthew 28:20: “…I am with you always, to the end of the age” (NRSV), the word “age” being a translation of aion.
Rendering aion to indicate eternality in this verse would result in the contradictory phrase “end of eternity”, so the question arises whether it should ever be so.

Contrast readings of Matthew 25:46 in well-known English translations with its rendering in Young's Literal Translation:
And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during. (YLT)

Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. (NIV)

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (NASB)

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal. (KJV)

And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life. (NWT)

The word "Divine" is a translation, and the word "god" is an interpretation. The reason the word "god" is an interpretation, is because it derived from the name of a Pagan god.



Additional Note.
Theosophy
Theosophy (from Greek θεοσοφία theosophia, from θεός theos, divine + σοφία sophia, wisdom; literally "divine wisdom")

The word theosophia appeared in both Greek and Latin in early Christian writings as a synonym for “theology”. The theosophoi are “those who know divine matters.”
So what are you trying to say? Make it simple.
 

CherubRam

New member
So what are you trying to say? Make it simple.

The term "Godhead" is an English variant of the word "godhood" and was first introduced by John Wycliffe (1330-1384 C.E.) in English Bible versions as godhede. The word "Godhead" is a interpretation of three different Greek words, theion (meaning "divinity, deity, divine eternal", # 2304 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) at Acts 17:29, theiotēs (meaning "divinity, divine nature", # 2305 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) at Romans 1:20, and theotēs (meaning "deity", # 2320 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) at Colossians 2:9.
 
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