Just One Gospel?

Sold Out

New member
Originally posted by Clete

No sir, if God had killed Moses he would have been just as hell bound as the whole generation of Israelite who's carcasses fell dead in the desert.
Resting in Him,
Clete


Where does it say they went to hell?
 

Turbo

Caped Crusader
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by Sold Out

Where does it say they went to hell?
Where does it say they believed that Christ would be crucified and raised from the dead?

(Not that this would have been necessary for them to avoid hell. But you think it was necessary, right?)
 

elected4ever

New member
Originally posted by Turbo

e4e & Sold Out,
  • Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"

If someone asked you this question, how would you answer?

Would you answer like this?

  • So He said to him, [Jesus]"Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." [/Jesus]

    He said to Him, "Which ones?"

    Jesus said, [Jesus]"'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"[/Jesus] Matthew 19:16-19

I sure wouldn't! :nono:
That is absolute righteousness and is a good answer. It is clear that absolute righteousness is required. If you wont to have eternal life then you must be absolutely righteous. I agree with Jesus.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Originally posted by elected4ever

That is absolute righteousness and is a good answer. It is clear that absolute righteousness is required. If you want to have eternal life then you must be absolutely righteous. I agree with Jesus.

So, who is right on the way to eternal life, Jesus in Matthew 19:16-19 or Paul in Ephesians 2:8-9?

Matthew 19:16-17 (New King James Version)

Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?" So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments. He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, ""You shall not murder,' "You shall not commit adultery,' "You shall not steal,' "You shall not bear false witness,' "Honor your father and your mother," and, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."'

compared to


Ephesians 2:8-9 (New King James Version)

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

BTW, I agree with Christ also. Just if Isreal had not rejected Him we wouldn't be having this discussion.
 

Sozo

New member
Originally posted by drbrumley




Just if Isreal had not rejected Him we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I'm still trying to understand what message you guys think that they rejected. :confused:
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
The Kingship of Christ. The resurrection of Christ. That Jesus was the Son of God. Shall I contunue?
 

Sozo

New member
Originally posted by drbrumley

The Kingship of Christ. The resurrection of Christ. That Jesus was the Son of God. Shall I contunue?

:confused: I thought that your whole argument was that the 12 were preaching a different gospel and that they were in the dark about Christ's death and resurrection.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Originally posted by elected4ever

Both:bannana:

Good we agree. So when Christ was teaching the Jews how to have eternal life in the Matthew passage, Paul could say what he said in Ephesians at the very same time?
 

swanca99

New member
Below is a post I made in the thread "The Gospel" a few days ago. It may help, it may just be gasoline on the fire, or it may be answering questions that nobody is asking or cares about, but here goes...

==================================================

What I am going to do in this post is present the traditional dispensationalist view (what I think some on this board refer to as "Acts 2 dispensationalism"). I'm not going to go to great lengths here to defend it, I'm just going to present it. Perhaps I'll attempt to defend it once others attempt to take it apart, but maybe not.

We could say that there are three or four different GOSPELS, or that there are three or four different messages of good news. Take your pick.

First, there is the gospel or good news of the kingdom (Mt 4:23, 9:35). This is the good news that God intends to set up the kingdom of Christ in fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant (2 Sam. 7:16). This message was preached by John the Baptist, by our Lord during His first advent, and will be preached during the tribulation (Mt 24:14).

Second, there is the gospel or good news of the grace of God, i.e., that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world, was raised from the dead for our justification, and that by Him all who believe are justified. I'm not going to quote any Scripture about this one, since there has already been a lot quoted concerning it in this thread, and most of us agree that this one exists anyway. <8^)

Third, there is the "everlasting gospel" of Rev. 14:6-7. It is described in the New Scofield Refernce Bible (1967) "as the announcement of divine judgment upon the wicked in the coming great tribulation. It is good news for the suffering believers as it heralds their coming deliverance and reward (cp. v. 12). In view of this those who 'dwell on the earth' are exhorted to fear God and worship Him (v. 7)."

Chafer and Scofield (in his 1917 edition) add a fourth, that which Paul calls "my Gospel." They describe this as the gospel of grace in its fullest development, and it includes a lot of stuff about the church.

This "does not mean that there is more than one Gospel of salvation. Grace is the basis for salvation in all dispensations, and is under all circumstances the only way of salvation from sin." -- Scofield Reference Bible, 1967 edition

Covenant or Reformed theologians object to a distinction between the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace. This statement by Chafer is similar to those made by some of the previous posters in this thread: "Here nevertheless will arise an absurdity which does not deter this type of theologian, namely, that men could preach the grace gospel based as it is on the death and resurrection of Christ when they did not believe Christ would die or be raised again (cf. Luke 18:31-34)." -- Systematic Theology, Vol. VII, page 176.

Please excuse the long post and my over-reliance on other sources -- I'm NOT a theologian by any means despite my overpriced education. But I hope this has helped in gaining an understanding of at least a traditional dispensationalist position on this issue.

==================================================

Yours because His,
Swanca
 

elected4ever

New member
Originally posted by drbrumley

Good we agree. So when Christ was teaching the Jews how to have eternal life in the Matthew passage, Paul could say what he said in Ephesians at the very same time?

Matthew 19:20 _The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 _Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 _But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Can anyone be perfect outside of Christ Jesus? The young man was depending on his good works and Jesus just helped him see the truth. If anyone can keep the whole law then that person will be saved. Jesus keep the whole law and outside of Jesus no man keeps the law but in Jesus the law is fulfilled.

Romans 8:1 _¶There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.:bannana:
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Originally posted by Sozo

So then they are lost, and they do not have eternal life?

Isreal is lost and have no enternal life without Christ. But God gave them a promise or covenant so he will remember them when he deems it is time.
 

Sozo

New member
Originally posted by drbrumley

Isreal is lost and have no enternal life without Christ. But God gave them a promise or covenant so he will remember them when he deems it is time.

This must also include the 12, because they did not receive the gospel that Paul proclaimed, correct?
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Originally posted by elected4ever

Matthew 19:20 _The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 _Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 _But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Can anyone be perfect outside of Christ Jesus? The young man was depending on his good works and Jesus just helped him see the truth. If anyone can keep the whole law then that person will be saved. Jesus keep the whole law and outside of Jesus no man keeps the law but in Jesus the law is fulfilled.

Romans 8:1 _¶There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.:bannana:

Agreed. Noone can be perfect outside of Jesus. But did not Jesus say follow the law right above what you posted? He listed the commandments. Those look like requirements to me that a person being a Jew had to do. Jesus doesnt say thru me you can keep the commandments. The young man had to keep em, right?
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Originally posted by Sozo

This must also include the 12, because they did not receive the gospel that Paul proclaimed, correct?

No. The 12 had the mystery which is the Body of Christ revealed to them when God by a special revelation sent Paul to Jerusalem to make it known to them.
 

Sozo

New member
Originally posted by drbrumley

No. The 12 had the mystery which is the Body of Christ revealed to them when God by a special revelation sent Paul to Jerusalem to make it known to them.
Then why did they stay with writing letters tainted by the old gospel message?

:help: :confused:
 
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