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View Poll Results: Who is winning Battle Royale V?

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  • Paul DeYonghe

    38 90.48%
  • famousGandalf7

    4 9.52%
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Thread: BATTLE TALK ~ Battle Royale V - Paul DeYonghe vs. famousGandalf7

  1. #151
    Journeyman Huldrych's Avatar
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    OK, fG7 was quoting someone...wasn't his own prophecy.



    I can't say I'm very impressed with that, especially since the initial delivery made it look like it was his own prophecy.

    Very bad form. I hope he doesn't do this in his own assembly.



    jth
    The free world may be gross, vulgar, and immoral, but that is not something that the slave world can fix

    --Jeff Cooper

  2. #152
    Over 750 post club Brother Vinny's Avatar
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    Huldrych said,

    Trying to prophesy, I'm pretty sure of it. I think FG7 has gotten a little miffed over PD's views on physical miracles. (All I have to say over that matter, for whatever it is worth, is this: if you don't believe in them, chances are, you won't see them--Mt. 13:58).
    Where did I ever say I didn't believe in physical miracles? My salvation is staked on the greatest physical miracle of all-- Christ's Resurrection. I quite adamantly believe in physical miracles.

    I've not even denied the possibility of their occurrence in our time, as some of my colleagues have done. God, being omnipotent and all, can do whatever He wants (within the context of His character, of course).

    Having said that, I don't believe there's any reason to expect physical miracles to occur in this economy of salvation. "The Jews require a sign (1 Cor 1:22)," and, last time I looked anyway, we're not Israel.

    So, it's not so much a case of not seeing because I don't believe; more, I am skeptical of present-day physical miracles because I don't see any occurring and see no biblically-based reason why I should expect them to occur.

  3. #153
    Pilgrimagain
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    well said that man.

  4. #154
    Over 750 post club Brother Vinny's Avatar
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    *takes ever-so-short-break from his vacation*

    famousGandalf7 said:

    I may be a poor debater or defender of 'movements,' but have hardly been wounded, much less bloodied or defeated by the replies Paul has posted.
    Remind you of anyone?

    "I'm invincible! Have at you! . . . Just a flesh wound."

    *vacation resumes*

  5. #155
    Registered User Sozo's Avatar
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    Last edited by Sozo; March 12th, 2005 at 07:46 AM.

  6. #156
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    Huldrych,

    I'm all in favor of present day miracles and prophecies. I just havn't heard any good prophecies, could you give me one from your assembly? It doesn't have to be earth shattering.
    Though I be the least of all His servants, nevertheless I am a servant.

  7. #157
    Journeyman Huldrych's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Paul DeYonghe

    Where did I ever say I didn't believe in physical miracles?
    Well, Paul, you've got an interesting set of contradictions going on here.

    On the one hand, you say...

    I've not even denied the possibility of their occurrence in our time, as some of my colleagues have done. God, being omnipotent and all, can do whatever He wants (within the context of His character, of course).
    But on the other hand, you say...

    Having said that, I don't believe there's any reason to expect physical miracles to occur in this economy of salvation. "The Jews require a sign (1 Cor 1:22)," and, last time I looked anyway, we're not Israel.
    Not Israel after the flesh, anyway, but Paul [the apostle ] makes mention of the "Israel of God" (Gal 6:16) and that those who are of faith are those who are the seed of Abraham (Gal 3:25), not to mention the phrase regarding those who are "Jews inwardly" (Rom. 2:29).

    Furthermore, could you--please (I don't want this to take on the tone of a fight)--explain where you got the notion that signs and wonders are only for natural Jews? There is that one verse you quoted out of 1. Cor, but my understanding of "require" is in the sense of their seeking proof to believe, instead of something like a law laid down on them stating they must have a sign.

    So, it's not so much a case of not seeing because I don't believe; more, I am skeptical of present-day physical miracles because I don't see any occurring and see no biblically-based reason why I should expect them to occur.
    We all have faults of our expectations of God. Our own frailties in our faith, not to mention our own fears, can keep us from stepping out in faith. But we shouldn't exclude Him from moving in our lives because we find no "reason" to.

    If I can be blunt, Paul, and understand I am saying this to provoke you in a good way, not tear you down--the way I see it, the line of reasoning you're presenting seems (key words here, bro--the way I see it and seems) to justify fear more than faith. The Bible, as often as I have read it, does not encourage fear (the kind that keeps us running in the same ruts over and over again, no change, no improvement, no growth, and no intimacy with God), but faith.

    Sorry you haven't seen any miracles; I've seen God perform several, some through my own hands. And I had nothing to do with it outside of faith. And I am as far removed from a natural Jew as any Brit-Scot-Kraut can be.

    Keep looking up!
    jth
    The free world may be gross, vulgar, and immoral, but that is not something that the slave world can fix

    --Jeff Cooper

  8. #158
    Journeyman Huldrych's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bill betzler
    Huldrych,

    I'm all in favor of present day miracles and prophecies. I just havn't heard any good prophecies, could you give me one from your assembly? It doesn't have to be earth shattering.
    It doesn't have to be earth shattering or take on any cosmic proportions. It can be very specific, and very present-day. 1. Cor 14:3 explains something about the purpose of prophecy:

    But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

    I can give you an example that happened to me from a few weeks ago. I have a friend who is suffering from a thyroid disorder. She was asking for prayer, but not before making a pretty bold declaration that she believed she had a word from the Lord that He would heal her. She was very hesitant to speak what she believed she heard, knowing well that she knew she just might have to walk in it.

    But she pushed through, and said it. It was at that point that I sensed something happening around her, almost like I could see the hand of the Lord rushing to uphold her the moment she made that declaration. I shared that with her a few days later (the last couple of years, I have been fighting with a real terror to share visions and prophecies--you can pray for me about that. I used to move in this VERY often).

    That's a sort of prophecy. It's for the purpose of keeping us moving towards the Lord.

    You know, the term used to describe the Spirit of God, "Comforter" or "Counselor" (depending on your Bible version) comes from "parakletos," which means "one calling near." If prophecy doesn't do that, in one way or another, then I doubt it is really prophecy.

    Blessings,
    jth
    The free world may be gross, vulgar, and immoral, but that is not something that the slave world can fix

    --Jeff Cooper

  9. #159
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    Huldrych,

    Thank you. I'll pray that the Lord gives you boldness to do His work that the church might be edified.
    Though I be the least of all His servants, nevertheless I am a servant.

  10. #160
    Over 1500 post club themuzicman's Avatar
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    I hate it when I fall between two debaters in the colluseum.

    I had hoped that Paul would focus on the covenant demand of healing and the "name it and claim it" aspects of the word-faith movement, but he couldn't seem to focus in on these specific and obvious errors, choosing instead to withdraw to God doesn't do healing today. I thought his case would be much better made by sticking to his original points and attacking the obviously heretical.

    I thought fg7 would rise above the Word-Faith movement for a moment, when he ducked away from some of the worst of the heresies of the movement, but he couldn't separate himself from the leaders who espouse theese heresies, and when this disconnect was obvious, he resorted to the worst form of debate: wrapping himself in "prophecy" in an eviron where his credibility as a spokesman for God was seriously in question.


    I say that I fall in the middle because I do believe God does miricles (I have a friend who was walking with difficulty, using a cane, and scheduled for back surgury to repair his back, and after prayer was walking, leaping, running, and lifting objects without pain, and has been so for a couple of yers), but that miricles and healing are not to be demanded from God, but we are to serve God, bring our needs and sicknesses to Him, and let HIS will be done.

    The problem with the Word-Faith movment is that servants don't make demands of their masters. (See Luke 17:7-10)

    God ordains some to suffer at times, to be poor at times, to be hungry at times. Even Paul suffered such fates at various times. This would seem to be anathema to the Word-Faith movement.

    Michael
    I don't care how systematic your theology is, until you show me how biblical it is.

    2 Tim 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

  11. #161
    Trainee Rafael Almeida's Avatar
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    If the Word of Faith is heretical? Hey, remember from Robert Tilton. A heavy-metal band (satanist, of course) dedicated even a music to him. In Brazil, there's a WoF teacher, the name of his church is Universal Church of the Kingdom of the Lord (by the way is another catolic church, universal=catolic in latin) who says that the abortion is legal and his secular TV shows New Age films. Another who teachs you "how to receive the value of your tenth part, triplicated, and in 24 hours". The Wof lay in ruins the brazilian theology in 1980's, but today is better than that epoch.
    May the Biblical side win.
    P.S.: I don't read all posts, because my net is wrecked. I made good use of ths post to expose my ideas.
    "To 'hope to be better' (hence acceptable) is to fail to yourself in Christ only"
    "To be disappointed with yourself is to have believed in yourself"
    "To be discouraged is unbelief"
    "To be proud is to be blind" (William R. Newell)

  12. #162
    Over 2000 post club Mr. 5020's Avatar
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    What in the world is this thread doing on the active list?

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