GT is somewhere in between modalism and unitarianism.
She insists that God expressed Himself as three, but won't go into any more detail than that. Three what? She won't say.
Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!
- Thread starter Apple7
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She insists that God expressed Himself as three, but won't go into any more detail than that. Three what? She won't say.
CherubRam
New member
I suggest you look into things for yourself.
Links:
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm
CherubRam
New member
The bible warns us that it would be tampered with.
Here is a clue for you: The KJV is also known as the Masonic Bible.
Jude
1. Jude, a servant of Yahshua the Messiah, and brother of Jacob, and to them that are sanctified by Yahwah the Father, also called and saved by Yahshua the Messiah.
2. May mercy, peace, and devotion, be multiplied to you.
3. Loved, I was eager to write to you about the salvation we share, it was necessary for me to write to you, and encourage you to earnestly contend for the faith that was given to the saints.
4. Because you are unaware that certain men have sneaked in, who are of a ancient order to their condemnation, these ungodly men turn the grace of our God into immorality, and deny that the lord Yahshua is the Messiah.
5. I will remind you although you once knew this, how Yahwah, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that did not believe.
6. Those messengers did not keep their first estate, and they were removed from their place, and He has reserved for them everlasting chains of darkness for that great day of judgment.
7. Just like Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in the same manner, they gave themselves over to fornication, and strange flesh.
8. And they will suffer the vengeance of eternal fire, as a set example; as also along with these filthy dreamers who also defile their flesh.
9. They say evil things about dignitaries and despise their dominion; they say evil things about what they know nothing about.
10. But what they do know naturally like brute beasts; in those things they have corrupted themselves.
11. Woe to them! They have gone the ways of Cain, and have ran greedily after the errors of Balaam for a reward, and perish like in the rebellion of Korah.
12. They are blemishes at your devotions, without fear they eat with you, only to feed themselves; They are clouds without rain, carried about by winds; pulled up by the roots they are trees whose fruit has withered before harvest, twice dead;
13. Like raging waves of the sea, whose foam is to their own shame; they are wandering stars, for whom is reserved the blackest of darkness forever.
14. And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about them, saying, look, the Lord is coming with tens of thousands of his saints,
15. To execute judgment upon them, and to convince all of the ungodly among them of their ungodly deeds, which they have committed, and all of their hard words spoken by the ungodly sinners who have spoken against Him.
16. These complainers are grumblers walking after their own lusts; and their mouths speak with great words of pride, having the admiration of men because of some personal advantage.
17. Loved, do you remember the words which were spoken of before; by the disciples of our lord Yahshua the Messiah?
18. How they told you there would come mockers in the last days, and how they would walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19. Not having the Spirit; these are the people who divide you for their lust.
20. But your love builds you up in your most holy faith, praying to the Holy Spirit,
21. Keep yourselves as Yahwah's devoted, looking for mercy from our lord Yahshua the Messiah for eternal life.
22. Make a difference and have compassion.
23. Save others without fear, by pulling them from the fire; hate even the cloths stained by the flesh.
24. He is able to keep you from falling, and present you faultless before his present glory with great joy.
25. And to the only wise God and Savior, be glory, majesty, dominion and power: To both now, and forever. Truly.
The dispute mentioned between the Archangel Michael and the Devil does not suit itself to the doctrinal views of the Sadducees since they denied the existence of angels. (Acts 23:8 states this clearly).
Book of Jude Notes
KJV: old ordained
NIV: long ago
KJ21: foreordained of old
HCSB: long ago
Book of Jude: Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Footnotes:
Jude 1:1 Other mss read sanctified
Jude 1:5 Other mss read Jesus/Joshua, God, or God Christ
Jude 1:5 Other mss place first after remind you
Jude 1:7 Lit and went after other flesh
Jude 1:12 Or like spots
Jude 1:14 Or came
Jude 1:15 Lit convict all
Jude 1:19 Or natural
Jude 1:25 Other mss omit through Jesus Christ our Lord
Jude 1:25 Other mss omit before all time
Book of Jude: New International Version (NIV)
Footnotes:
Jude 1:1 Or by; or in
Jude 1:4 Or individuals who were marked out for condemnation
Jude 1:5 Some early manuscripts Jesus
Jude 1:9 Jude is alluding to the Jewish Testament of Moses (approximately the first century AD.).
Jude 1:15 From the Jewish First Book of Enoch (approximately the first century b.c.)
Jude 1:23 The Greek manuscripts of these verses vary at several points.
In regards to verse nine in the Book of Jude:
Chrysostom and Jerome mention Jude's quoting from a non-canonical sources as the reason it being disputed by some as canonical.
truthjourney
New member
It is the headquarters of JWs, The Watchtower Society that I have a problem with a small group of men referred to as the Governing Body who make all the decisions, rules, guidelines and teachings that each and every JW must obey to the letter and not question or disagree with them no matter what. And if they do that alone can get them disfellowshipped. If someone gets disfellowshipped and they have grown children or parents or grandparents or grandchildren or aunts or uncles who are JWs then they will no longer be allowed to associate with those family members. Those family members are not to even speak to them. Imagine how hurtful that can be to a person. It's like holding family members hostage. That is one of the main ways that JWs are in effect forced to remain in that religion just so they can associate with their family members and not be cut off from them.
And yet the Governing Body of JWs were members of the United Nations, a major political organization, for at least ten years. They teach all the rest of the JWs not to be part of a political organization while they themselves were members of the United Nations. And kept it quiet and hidden until The Guardian newspaper did a story on it and it became public. While at the same time JWs in other countries were being killed for not being part of a political organization. The United Nations is heavily involved in military operations and the Governing Body were members of the U.N.
This thread is about JWs.
There's a big difference between name calling and controlling almost every aspect of a person's life as the Governing Body does. I don't think you really know very much about The Watchtower Society. Maybe you need to do some research on their history and even what they're doing now.
I don't like name calling. But people are called names here for other reasons too not just because of being non-trin.
blessings.
jsanford108
New member
Well stated, truthjourney. Excellent points and facts.
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Sent from my iPhone using TOL
God's Truth
New member
That scripture is about when Jesus would be born.
The scripture proves that Jesus is God the Father and the Holy Spirit.
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
It is hard to believe they are members of united nation.
I am very disappointed if it is true.
I am asking you if you are sincerely seeking to be true to Jesus and His teachings?
Still, they have many doctrines I can agree with, like anti-OSAS, calvinism, trinity, hell fire for non-believers, pacifism, Catholicism.
And you are disregarding their persecution, killing non-trins in the past.
truthjourney
New member
CherubRam
New member
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Here is the correct translation.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Isaiah 9:6[/FONT]
[FONT="]For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: And the government shall be upon his shoulders: And he shall be called Wonderful Counselor of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father; [/FONT][FONT="](שַׂר / minister-ing) in peace. [/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]שַׂר minister[/FONT] [FONT="] [/FONT]
CherubRam
New member
Then why do take it so lightly when Jesus' servants called cult, child of devil, scumbum, wolf and etc?
How do you feel when you are called such?
Do you think they are in Christ people who give judgement of salvation on other servants of Christ?
Tigger 2
Active member
The personal name at Is. 9:6 has been honestly translated in the footnote as:
“And his name is called: Wonderful in counsel IS God the Mighty, the Everlasting Father, the Ruler of Peace” - The Holy Scriptures, JPS Version (Margolis, ed.)to show that it is intended to praise the God of the Messiah who performs great things through the Messiah.
Also, An American Translation (by trinitarians Smith & Goodspeed) says:
“Wonderful Counselor IS God Almighty, Father forever, Prince of Peace.”
And The Leeser Bible has:
“Wonderful, counsellor of the mighty God, of the everlasting Father, the prince of peace”
Of course it could also be honestly translated:
“The Wonderful Counselor and Mighty God Is the Everlasting Father of the Prince of Peace.”
And the Tanakh by the JPS, 1985, translates it:
[a] “The Mighty God is planning grace;
The Eternal Father [is]a peaceable ruler.”
This latter translation seems particularly appropriate since it is in the form of a parallelism. Not only was the previous symbolic personal name introduced by Isaiah at Is. 8:1 a parallelism (“Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz” means [a]“quick to the plunder; swift to the spoil” - NIV footnote) but the very introduction to this Messianic name at Is. 9:6 is itself a parallelism: [a]“For unto us a child is born; unto us a son is given.” It would, therefore, be appropriate to find that this name at Isaiah 9:6, too, was in the form of a parallelism as translated by the Tanakh above.
So it is clear, even to some trinitarian scholars, that Is. 9:6 does not imply that Jesus is Jehovah God.
God's Truth
New member
The translation I gave is good.
All translations prove that Jesus is God and the Father and the Holy Spirit and the Son.
truthjourney
New member
Who says I take it lightly. I already told you that I don't like name calling.
The only thing that matters is what God thinks of me. He sees my heart. I prefer to have peace in my heart and not anger and bitterness.
Do you? Are you going to make that judgement?
Hey, CR, could you do me a favor and go read http://kgov.com/kjo and/or read Battle Royale XIV?
You can make all the "scripture has been corrupted" claims you want, but Pastor Enyart's opening statement in BR14 shows that God is capable of writing a book that the teachings therein can stand the test of time and even survives translation
Thank you for answering.
I don't make that judgment. I don't even claim to be saved. And JWs don't either. They say even JWs will be judged individually according to what they have done. It is not the same as most organization preach. They say if you don't believe in the trinity, you are not saved.
All I am doing is to be fair in judgement of organizations. Not maliciously trying to silence their naysayers.
You see, even if JWs governing body is corrupt as you say, so is the rest to organizations. That's why I don't join any organization and don't adopt man-made doctrines. But I have learned basic of loving Christianity and I am forever grateful for that. I never got such godly basic principles from any other popular organizations.
BTW, I am not even JWs because I did not see their each individual's relationship with God and Jesus. You are right, I don't believe it is biblical to govern the body by some members.
That's another reason why I did not join them.
6days
New member
I have not heard anyone say that, but no doubt some people might. Belief in the trinity is not necessary to be saved.
Acts 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved.'
Romans 10:13-14 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved."
So... you are correct. It does not say call on the trinity. However, I would hope that a new Christian reads and understands who Jesus is. He is more than a man who rose from the grave.
Then..... you haven't been? Or you just have an aversion to that word?meshak said:
Heb. 10:25 And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do,meshak said:
I don't claim to be saved and it is becaseu I am not judge of anyone's salvation including myself. It is just simple logic.
Jesus is the Lord and the Judge of salvation, not anyone else. Self claim of "saved" is so unbiblical.
the rest of your claims do not worth replying, it has been answered many times.
If you think I am lying, then ask any church member or pastor or priest if you are a Christian if you don't believe in the trinity.
It seems that you are a dishonest about it.
why is that?
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