Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

genuineoriginal · Apr 13, 2018

Tambora said:
Don't need a history lesson, I have scripture.

You are relying on more than scripture.

Tambora said:
That GOD is a triune unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is all throughout scripture.

No, that has never been true.
It took 300 years after the crucifixion for the doctrines of men to read their ideas that the Father and the Son are a Binity (two in one).
It took another 50 years for the Holy Spirit to be added to the Binity to form a Trinity (three in one).
The process is called eisegesis.

Eisegesis is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, or biases into and onto the text.

The Trinity doctrine did not come about through exegesis.

Exegesis is a critical explanation or interpretation of a text, particularly a religious text. Traditionally the term was used primarily for work with the Bible; however, in modern usage "biblical exegesis" is used for greater specificity to distinguish it from any other broader critical text explanation.
Exegesis includes a wide range of critical disciplines: textual criticism is the investigation into the history and origins of the text, but exegesis may include the study of the historical and cultural backgrounds of the author, text, and original audience. Other analyses include classification of the type of literary genres presented in the text and analysis of grammatical and syntactical features in the text itself.

Tambora said:
Don't rely on your history books to interpret scripture, rely on scripture to interpret scripture, as I do.

Exegesis requires using history to understand the writings of scripture.
Without that understanding, your interpretations of scripture will be nothing more than your own ideas and presuppositions read into the text.

Trinitarians seem to be content to merely make the scriptures say what they want them to say instead of what the scriptures actually say.

genuineoriginal · Apr 13, 2018

Apple7 said:
Moses was Trinitarian.

No, Moses was not a Trinitarian.

genuineoriginal · Apr 13, 2018

glorydaz said:
Do you agree God became flesh and dwelt among us?

I don't understand why that is so hard for you to say.

Why it is so difficult for you to find any verses to base such a question on?

Are you basing the question on these verses?

Romans 8:2-4
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

JudgeRightly · Apr 13, 2018

genuineoriginal said:
Why it is so difficult for you to find any verses to base such a question on?

Are you basing the question on these verses?

Romans 8:2-4
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

How about on these verses:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . . . And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. - John 1:1,14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:1,14&version=NKJV

genuineoriginal · Apr 13, 2018

JudgeRightly said:
How about on these verses:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . . . And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. - John 1:1,14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:1,14&version=NKJV

You seem to think that the word "word" means something other than the Greek λόγος logos

λόγος • (lógos)

That which is said: word, sentence, speech, story, debate, utterance.
That which is thought: reason, consideration, computation, reckoning.
An account, explanation, or narrative.
Subject matter.

λόγος logos is the Greek word to describe both a person's thought processes and a person's thoughts uttered as speech.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the [reasoning and utterance], and the [reasoning and utterance] was with God, and the [reasoning and utterance] was God.

14 And the [reasoning and utterance] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

"In the beginning" is a reference to the Torah, the first five books of the Bible, that begins with those words.
The Torah also contains the Law of God given to the children of Israel through Moses.

Exodus 6:10
10 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

John is referring to the Torah that contains the laws that God spoke unto Moses as well as the reasoning that God had for giving each of those laws.

The Torah was made flesh refers to a person that embodies the laws that God spoke unto Moses as well as the reasoning that God had for giving each of those laws.

The part the Trinitarians get stuck on is: "and the word was god".
1:1 Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος
Some Non-Trinitarians go into a lot of detail about whether there is a definite article or not before θεὸς theos, but that really is not important, since the order of the words show that the verse actually says "and God was the word", not "and the word was God".

carm.org John 1:1, "The word was a god" by Matt Slick
John 1:1 in a literal translation reads thus: "In beginning was the word, and the word was with the God, and God was the word." Notice that it says "God was the word." This is the actual word-for-word translation.

"God was the word" means that God was the Torah, or to put it a different way, "God was the word" means that God is "what God thinks and what God spoke."
This idea matches what is said in this verse from Proverbs:

Proverbs 23:7a
7a For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:

So, John 1 begins with establishing that it is talking about what God thinks and what God spoke, then makes the claim that what God thinks and what God spoke was embodied in one special man.

John did not use "the word" as a name of a person.

Apple7 · Apr 13, 2018

genuineoriginal said:
No, Moses was not a Trinitarian.

Yes.

He was.

JudgeRightly · Apr 13, 2018

genuineoriginal said:
You seem to think that the word "word" means something other than the Greek λόγος logos

λόγος • (lógos)

That which is said: word, sentence, speech, story, debate, utterance.

That which is thought: reason, consideration, computation, reckoning.

An account, explanation, or narrative.

Subject matter.

λόγος logos is the Greek word to describe both a person's thought processes and a person's thoughts uttered as speech.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the [reasoning and utterance], and the [reasoning and utterance] was with God, and the [reasoning and utterance] was God.

14 And the [reasoning and utterance] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

"In the beginning" is a reference to the Torah, the first five books of the Bible, that begins with those words.
The Torah also contains the Law of God given to the children of Israel through Moses.

Exodus 6:10
10 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

John is referring to the Torah that contains the laws that God spoke unto Moses as well as the reasoning that God had for giving each of those laws.

The Torah was made flesh refers to a person that embodies the laws that God spoke unto Moses as well as the reasoning that God had for giving each of those laws.

The part the Trinitarians get stuck on is: "and the word was god".
1:1 Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος
Some Non-Trinitarians go into a lot of detail about whether there is a definite article or not before θεὸς theos, but that really is not important, since the order of the words show that the verse actually says "and God was the word", not "and the word was God".

carm.org John 1:1, "The word was a god" by Matt Slick
John 1:1 in a literal translation reads thus: "In beginning was the word, and the word was with the God, and God was the word." Notice that it says "God was the word." This is the actual word-for-word translation.

"God was the word" means that God was the Torah, or to put it a different way, "God was the word" means that God is "what God thinks and what God spoke."
This idea matches what is said in this verse from Proverbs:

Proverbs 23:7a
7a For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he:

So, John 1 begins with establishing that it is talking about what God thinks and what God spoke, then makes the claim that what God thinks and what God spoke was embodied in one special man.

John did not use "the word" as a name of a person.

"John did not use 'the word' as a name of a person."

Um, so what is this:

He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. - Revelation 19:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation19:13&version=NKJV

Who is that talking about? Jesus or the Father?

See what happens when you focus in too much?

You lose sight of the big picture.

Apple7 · Apr 13, 2018

KingdomRose said:
He was NOT. Your statements are so ridiculous that continuing to comment on them is actually casting pearls before swine. Jesus said not to bother.

Moses wrote about, and prayed to, a Triune God.

genuineoriginal · Apr 13, 2018

JudgeRightly said:
"John did not use 'the word' as a name of a person."

Um, so what is this:

He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. - Revelation 19:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation19:13&version=NKJV

The author of the gospel of John did not use 'the word' as the name of a person in John 1:1,14 when speaking about what happened "in the beginning" and what happened when the Torah was made flesh.

JudgeRightly said:
Um, so what is this:

He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. - Revelation 19:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation19:13&version=NKJV

When Jesus returns, He will have the new name of "The Word of God".

Revelation 3:12
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

JudgeRightly said:
Who is that talking about? Jesus or the Father?

Revelation shows Jesus with a new name that He did not have in the beginning.

If Jesus had the name "The Word" in the beginning, it would not be a new name, it would be an old name.

Pay more attention.

Tambora · Apr 13, 2018

genuineoriginal said:
That is a good reason to call Jehovah Witness a cult.
Teaching that Jesus is the archangel Michael is just as non-Biblical as teaching that God is a Trinity.

So then, as per the question of the thread title ....... you would agree that JWs do not worship the Jesus of scripture.

genuineoriginal · Apr 13, 2018

Tambora said:
So then, as per the question of the thread title ....... you would agree that JWs do not worship the Jesus of scripture.

You still haven't established that worshiping Jesus is the standard that should be used to say whether a person is a Christian or not.

Do you believe Jesus is like God?

Spoiler

Tambora · Apr 13, 2018

genuineoriginal said:
The author of the gospel of John did not use 'the word' as the name of a person in John 1:1,14

Title of a person.

when speaking about what happened "in the beginning" and what happened when the Torah was made flesh.

Torah means instruction.
The Word became flesh, not Torah.

Tambora · Apr 13, 2018

genuineoriginal said:
You still haven't established that worshiping Jesus is the standard that should be used to say whether a person is a Christian or not.

I don't need to in order for you to answer the question of whether JWs worship the Jesus of scripture, since the Jesus they worship is the angel Michael.
Are they worshiping the Jesus of scripture if they are worshiping the angel Michael?

genuineoriginal · Apr 13, 2018

Tambora said:
Title of a person.

Torah means instruction.
The Word became flesh, not Torah.

"The Word" was not used as the title of a person in the gospel of John.

Use the original languages to understand that John stated that the utterances and reasoning of God became flesh.
The Torah begins with the phrase "In the beginning", just like the gospel of John, and the law in the Torah came from the utterances of God.
Jesus embodied not only the law of the Torah but the reasoning behind those laws.

He did not get the name "The Word of God" until after the crucifixion.

genuineoriginal · Apr 13, 2018

Tambora said:
I don't need to in order for you to answer the question of whether JWs worship the Jesus of scripture, since the Jesus they worship is the angel Michael.
Are they worshiping the Jesus of scripture if they are worshiping the angel Michael?

The title of the thread is "Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!"
The OP stated "Therefore, JW's are NOT Christian."

It doesn't matter if Jehovah Witnesses do not worship Christ unless worshiping Jesus is the standard that should be used to say whether a person is a Christian or not.
You still haven't established that worshiping Jesus is the standard that should be used to say whether a person is a Christian or not.

JudgeRightly · Apr 13, 2018

genuineoriginal said:
The author of the gospel of John did not use 'the word' as the name of a person in John 1:1,14 when speaking about what happened "in the beginning" and what happened when the Torah was made flesh.

Pretty sure the Apostle John wrote both John and Revelation...

When Jesus returns, He will have the new name of "The Word of God".

Revelation 3:12
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation shows Jesus with a new name that He did not have in the beginning.

If Jesus had the name "The Word" in the beginning, it would not be a new name, it would be an old name.

Pay more attention.

Um, pretty sure YOU'RE the one who needs to pay attention, especially to context...:

His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.

That's the name referred to in Revelation 3:12. No one knows it.

He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. - Revelation 19:12-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation19:12-13&version=NKJV

This is a different name than the one written on him, one that he ALREADY HAS, and that was known by John.

If "The Word of God" was the new name that was written on Him that "no one knew but Himself," then how the heck does John know it?

Your arguments are not consistent at all, let alone with Scripture.

Here are a few pieces of evidence that Jesus is God (because "by two or three witnesses a matter is established"):

Jesus (in Revelation) is called The Word of God.

Jesus (in John) is called the Word.

The Word (in John) is said (in the beginning) to have been with God and to be God (or as the Greek puts it, "God was the Word").

Jesus (in John) was nearly stoned at least twice because the Jews knew that by calling Himself the Son of God He was claiming to be God Himself.

Jesus (in Matthew) tells Lucifer that only God is to be worshipped.

No godly (ie God-focused) created being (throughout the Bible) is ever to be described as accepting ANY worship, EXCEPT for Jesus.

Jesus accepts worship several times in the Bible. (see my post above which contains verses on worship)

(From kgov.com/deity)

Thus saith the LORD If we count how many times the Old Testament prophets said, “Thus says the Lord” we find them using that phrase, in the New King James Version of the Bible, about 420 times. The New Testament on the other hand, never once records that phrase. Jesus Christ, with all the red ink devoted to recording His words, never once used that ubiquitous phrase, “Thus saith the Lord.” Rather, Jesus proclaims, “I say to you,” in the Gospels! Not a single “Thus says the Lord,” but rather, “I say to you,” 135 times. The following chart demonstrates biblically that these two phrases, Thus saith the Lord, and I say unto you, indicate the same thing, that God is speaking. For Jesus Christ made it clear that He Himself was at the heart of His teaching. Unlike the righteous priests and kings, prophets and the apostles, the Lord focused His message on Himself:

Christ’s Self-focus:

“Follow Me” 19x Mt. 4:19; 8:22; 10:38; 16:24; 19:21; Mk. 1:17; 2:14; 8:34; 10:21; Lk. 5:27; 9:59; 18:22; Jn. 1:43; 8:12; 10:27; 12:26; 13:36; 21:19, 22

Pray and act “in My name” 18xMt. 7:22; 18:5; 18:20; [24:5]; Mk. 9:37, 39, 41; [13:6]; Lk. 9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; Jn. 14:13?14; 15:16; 16:23?24, 26; Acts 9:15

“the Holy Spirit” comes “in My name” Jn. 14:26

“for My name’s sake” leave family and property Mt. 19:29; or even be killed 5xMt. 24:9; [Lk. 21:12, 17;] Jn. 15:21; Acts 9:16

Believe in the “name of the… Son” and “in the Son” 3x Jn. 3:18, 36; 9:35 and “in Him [Jesus]” 4x Jn. 3:18; 6:29, 40; 8:31

“believe in Me” 14x Mt. 18:6; Mk. 9:42; Jn. 3:15?16, 18; 6:35, 47; 7:38; 11:25, 26; 12:44, 46; 14:1, 12; 16:8; 17:20

You “are sanctified by faith in Me” Acts 26:18

Live “in Me” Jn. 11:26

“come after Me” Mk. 8:34; Lk. 14:27

Abide “in Me” Jn. 15:2, 4:5, 7 “abide in Me” or else Jn. 15:6 “abide in My love” Jn. 15:9?10

“where two or three are gathered,” Jesus is “there in the midst of them” Mt. 18:20

So too: “I [Jesus, will abide] in you” Jn. 15:4?5

“know that I am He” Jn. 8:28 or “if you do not believe that I am He you will die in your sins” Jn. 8:24

Do things “for My sake” Mt. 10:22, 39; even lose your life “for My sake” 4xMt. 16:25; Mk. 8:35; 10:29; Lk. 6:22

“I never knew you, depart from Me” Mt. 7:23

“I am willing; be cleansed” Mt. 8:3; Mk.. 1:41

”confess Me” Mt. 10:32; Lk. 12:8

Do not deny “Me” 7x Mt. 10:33; 26:34; Mk. 14:30, 72; Lk. 12:9; 22:34; Jn. 13:38

Do not be “ashamed of Me” Mk. 8:38; Lk. 9:26 nor "My words"

“love Me” 5x Jn. 14:15, 21, 23?24, 28

Do not reject “Me” Lk. 10:16; Jn. 12:48

“He who is not with Me is against Me” Lk. 11:23

Love Me “more than” your family members Mt. 10:37; [Lk. 14:26]

“I… have loved you” Jn. 15:9, 12

Be “worthy of Me” Mt. 10:37?38

“Come to Me” 5x Mt. 11:28; Lk. 6:47; Jn. 5:40; 6:35; 7:37

“I will give you rest” Mt. 11:28

“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light” Mt. 11:30

I am “greater than the temple” “than Jonah” “than Solomon” Mt. 12:6, 41?42

I am “Lord even of the Sabbath” Mt. 12:8; Mk. 2:28; Lk. 6:5 [Lord of God's Ten Commandments]

Thus He says keep “My commandments” 4x Jn. 14:15, 21; 15:10, 12

“You are My friends if you do whatever I command you” Jn. 15:14

“keep My word” Jn. 14:23?24

“He who is not with Me is against Me” Mt. 12:30

The angels are “His angels” Mt. 13:41; 16:27 and He commands “His angels” Mt. 24:31; Mk. 13:27

The kingdom is “His kingdom” Mt. 13:41 and He calls it “My kingdom” Lk. 22:30

Jesus called it “My church” Mt. 16:18 and believers are “My sheep” Jn. 10:14, 27 and they are “His elect” Mt. 24:31; Mk. 13:27

Paul is a “vessel of Mine to bear My name” Acts 9:15

“all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine” Jn. 17:10

“My peace I give” Jn. 14:27 ”in Me you may have peace” Jn. 16:33

“My joy” should fill you Jn. 15:11

“Who do men say that I am?” Mt. 16:13; Mk. 8:27 “who do you say that I am?” Mt. 16:15

Receive “Me” Mt. 18:5; Mk. 9:37; Lk. 9:48

Heaven and earth will pass away but “My words” will never Mt. [5:18] 24:35; Mk. 13:31; Lk. 21:33

Tell others about Jesus Mk. 5:19

“you belong to Christ” Mk. 9:41

Hear “My sayings” and do them Lk. 6:47

Jesus has “His own glory” Lk. 9:26; [Jn. 2:11; 16:14] The Son is “glorified” 8x Jn. 11:4; 12:23; 13:31?32; [17:1, 5, 10 24]

“He who hears you hears Me” Lk. 10:16

Jesus expects praise, from stones if necessary 1x Lk. 19:37?40

Return “to Me” Lk. 22:32

Be “My disciple” Lk. 14:27; Jn. 8:31; 15:8 Forsake all to “be My disciple” Lk. 14:33 ”you are My disciples” Jn. 13:35

“I shall send… the [Holy] Spirit” Jn. 15:26; 16:7

The Holy Spirit “will testify of Me” Jn. 15:26

We read in John 5 and Luke 24 that “the Scriptures… testify of Me” Jn. 5:39; [Lk. 24:44]

“You [Apostles] also will bear witness [of Me] because you have been with Me” Jn. 15:27

Paul gives “testimony concerning Me” Acts 22:18; 23:11

“the Son gives life to whom He will” Jn. 5:21

“seek Me” Jn. 6:26

Serve “Me” Jn. 12:26

“all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father” Jn. 5:23

“I am the bread of life,” “of heaven,” “of God” Jn. 6: 32-33, 35, 41, [48,] 51

Just seeing Christ is reason enough to believe [Jn. 6:36] him” Jn. 6:56

Drink “My blood” and eat “My flesh” Jn. 6:53?54, 56

“I will raise him up at the last day” Jn. 6:40 for He is the resurrection

“The world… hates Me” Jn. 7:7

“I am the light of the world” Jn. 8:12; 9:5; 12:46

“I bear witness of Myself” 1x Jn. 8:13-14, 18

“know… Jesus Christ” for “eternal life” Jn. 17:3; [8:19; 10:10, 14]

“the Son makes you free” Jn. 8:36

“Abraham rejoiced to see My day” Jn. 8:56; “Before Abraham was, I AM” Jn. 8:58

Of believers, Christ said, “I know them” Jn. 10:27

“I give them eternal life” Jn. 10:28

“I am the resurrection and the life” Jn. 11:25

I “will draw all peoples to Myself” Jn. 12:32

“I will… receive you to Myself” Jn. 14:3

Be “Mine” Jn. 14:24

“I am the vine” Jn. 15:5

“without Me you can do nothing” Jn. 15:5

“You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you” Jn. 15:16

Those who oppress Christians are “persecuting Me” Acts 9:4?5; 22:7?8; 26:14?15
“because they have not known… Me” Jn. 16:3

The Spirit “will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it” Jn. 16:14

“All things that the Father has are Mine” Jn. 16:15

“the Father… loves you, because you have loved Me” Jn. 16:27

“If I will that he remain” Jn. 21:22

“I have overcome the world” Jn. 16:33

“I am the way” Jn. 14:6

“I am… the truth” Jn. 14:6

“I am… the life” Jn. 14:6

“I will… manifest Myself” Jn. 14:21

All of these points are extremely strong evidence that Jesus is God.

You make Him out to be a liar or a lunatic, of which HE IS NEITHER.

Jesus is either a liar, a lunatic, or He's YHWH, LORD, GOD. There are no other possibilities.

Tambora · Apr 13, 2018

genuineoriginal said:
When Jesus returns, He will have the new name of "The Word of God".

Revelation has many titles given to Christ.
King of Kings and Lord of Lords is one of them.
Where was Christ called that before?

BTW, Greek has two words used in scripture for "new".
One is used in connection with age, sequence ----- as a new born baby (one that did not exist before then).
neos
The other is in connection with pristine condition of freshness, ----- as a freshly ironed shirt, or a restored painting (one that did exist before, but is now seen as fresh and pristine).
kainos

Just a reminder that kainos is not the word for a new thing that had not existed before.
That would be neos.

Grosnick Marowbe · Apr 13, 2018

John 1:1 states; "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus IS the 'Word' being spoken of. Jesus IS the creator of all that is. What in the world is Gen-O speaking about?

genuineoriginal · Apr 13, 2018

JudgeRightly said:
Pretty sure the Apostle John wrote both John and Revelation...

Authorship of the Johannine works
There may have been a single author for the gospel and the three epistles. Tradition attributes all the books to John the Apostle. Most scholars agree that all three letters are written by the same author, although there is debate on who that author is. Although some scholars conclude the author of the epistles was different from that of the gospel, all four works probably originated from the same community, traditionally and plausibly attributed to Ephesus, c. 90-110, but perhaps, according to some scholars, from Syria.
In the case of Revelation, many modern scholars agree that it was written by a separate author, John of Patmos, c. 95 with some parts possibly dating to Nero's reign in the early 60s.

JudgeRightly said:
Um, pretty sure YOU'RE the one who needs to pay attention, especially to context...:

His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.

That's the name referred to in Revelation 3:12. No one knows it.

He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. - Revelation 19:12-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation19:12-13&version=NKJV

This is a different name than the one written on him, one that he ALREADY HAS, and that was known by John.

If "The Word of God" was the new name that was written on Him that "no one knew but Himself," then how the heck does John know it?

Pay attention.

Revelation 19:12-16
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and

he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself

.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

There are three names mentioned:

a name written on his head that no man knows
a name written on his thigh: King of Kings and Lord of Lords
His name that He is called: The Word of God

His new name is not either of the two names written, but is the name that He is called.

Grosnick Marowbe · Apr 13, 2018

genuineoriginal said:
The title of the thread is "Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!"
The OP stated "Therefore, JW's are NOT Christian."

It doesn't matter if Jehovah Witnesses do not worship Christ unless worshiping Jesus is the standard that should be used to say whether a person is a Christian or not.
You still haven't established that worshiping Jesus is the standard that should be used to say whether a person is a Christian or not.

You have a really odd way of looking at things? You really don't sound like a member of the 'Body of Christ?' Are you a JW or do you belong to some other form of cult? What church or denomination have you been affiliated with in the past?

Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

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Get your armor ready!

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Get your armor ready!

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