Top 12 Ways to Guarantee Another Terrorist Attack:

Krsto

Krsto

Well-known member
1PeaceMaker said:
I'm just speaking out about the jihad that was instituted from the beginning of the religion. They must take territory. Period. And whether or not the Caliphate of ISIS is justified in it's formation, it exists with support from certain religious muslims who believe that ISIS is the fulfilment of Quranic prophesy.

You left out the recruiting tool of slave ownership and rape. How else do you recruit such barbarians?

I'm against using war as a tool to control them. But what I need to see is a plan to control them without war.

Your ideas amount to pie-in-the-sky dreams of controlling oligarchs' purses, while what I see as the only path is citizen activism like what Gandhi did with India to bring about change.
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Your idea of jihad is not the Muslim view, it's the perverted view of a few like ISIS. Jihad means "struggle" and is primarily used with reference to personal struggle, like the struggle to obey God. It's also used for a struggle against enemies intent on doing harm, and is restricted to self-defense. Modern Islamic scholarship denies the legitimacy of establishing or expanding a caliphate by force, and have repudiated the Ottoman Empire, and most Muslims believe they don't have to do anything to make prophecy come true - it will just happen (Note: Christians would do well to adopt this stance regarding Israel possessing the land so we don't engage in wickedness in our attempts to further God's plan - assuming that is God's plan).

Here's my plan: only use our military out in the deserts to disrupt the movement of people and armaments, never in the cities where innocents will get killed. We don't need to kill off some stupid raghead wandering around the mid east bad enough that we have to kill off innocents in the process. This isn't Hitler or Hirohito. Not even close and never will be because they will never have the popular support of the people. So we can draw lines in the sand, as it were, and not let anyone through unless we know they are against ISIS. Also disrupt their movement of oil, like putting pressure on Turkey's Erdogan whose son and son in law are making tons of money transporting ISIS oil to Turkish ports. Better than that, just confiscate all their oil wells. Also, disrupt their banking abilities. I think all this is all that's needed for them to dry up and blow away, and is a far better plan than either bombing or an all out invasion intent on wiping them out. That just isn't going to work, in fact, will make things worse.

Aside from that, use our military as protection troops for humanitarian efforts like running schools and hospitals, and/or provide cities within ISIS territory as safe zones where ISIS can not penetrate. Overcome evil with good, IOW.
 
Krsto

Krsto

Well-known member
musterion said:
Reduced to one reason:

1. Refuse to acknowledge traitors within and enemies without, both of whom have declared war on your nation.
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You mean, like, bring Bush Jr. before an international war crimes tribunal for his illegal invasion of Iraq? You bet! When can we get started?
 
E

Eric h

Well-known member
Granite said:
I was speaking about American foreign policy, which sure is predicated on blowing people up round the clock.
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You could be right if the following is true...

A recent study has found that in 2015 alone the US dropped over 23,000 bombs on SIX predominantly Muslim countries (Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia). The US and the UK are in their 16th year of war in Afghanistan, yet a recent analysis in Foreign Policy magazine found that the Taliban now control more territory than at any point since the beginning of the invasion in 2001.

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php...44-bombs-on-muslim-majority-countries-in-2015
 
Krsto

Krsto

Well-known member
OCTOBER23 said:
PLAY NICE MR. TERRORIST.

And you will get an x-box for honika
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In all of our attention to the terrorists, we ignore the larger issue of how groups like ISIS are able to recruit members. If our presence in the mid east were for humanitarian purposes, actually helping people, popular attitudes toward the West would be entirely different, and ISIS would not be successful. "Overcome evil with good" really is an excellent foreign policy. St. Paul was a foreign policy genius.
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
Krsto said:
Your idea of jihad is not the Muslim view, it's the perverted view of a few like ISIS. Jihad means "struggle" and is primarily used with reference to personal struggle, like the struggle to obey God. It's also used for a struggle against enemies intent on doing harm, and is restricted to self-defense.
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She (1PM) and I don't have a perverted view of jihad because our view is the same as the correct view you espouse above. The highlighted portion is subjective and what concerns us, obviously.

Krsto said:
Modern Islamic scholarship denies the legitimacy of establishing or expanding a caliphate by force, and have repudiated the Ottoman Empire,
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"Modern Islamic scholarship ... :blabla:" Post some sources. If there are truly well over one billion Muslims opposed to ISIS and "the wrong interpretations," what is the evidence of that?

Krsto said:
...and most Muslims believe they don't have to do anything to make prophecy come true - it will just happen
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What they believe will come true is what concerns us. That only a few hundred million of them want to help make it happen isn't too comforting either.

Krsto said:
(Note: Christians would do well to adopt this stance regarding Israel possessing the land so we don't engage in wickedness in our attempts to further God's plan - assuming that is God's plan).
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Why do you tolerate the oppression of women by the Palestinians and blame Christians and Israel for their problems? Kind David purchased the land most disputed, the temple mount. It was never sold and still belongs to his estate.

Krsto said:
Here's my plan: only use our military...
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Bottom line: your plan is war.

Did you go to War College? If not, and you think war is the solution, I suggest you leave the strategies and tactics to trained professionals.


Krsto said:
Aside from that, use our military ....
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More war. You just want war on your terms, like the jihadists you defend.

Krsto said:
Overcome evil with good, IOW.
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You are defining good as war. Just pointing that out.
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
Granite said:
I was speaking about American foreign policy, which sure is predicated on blowing people up round the clock.

Eric h said:
You could be right if the following is true...

A recent study has found that in 2015 alone the US dropped over 23,000 bombs on SIX predominantly Muslim countries (Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia).

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/index.php...44-bombs-on-muslim-majority-countries-in-2015
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You have to compare that to an actual example of the U.S. "blowing people up round the clock," which it did during the Gulf War air campaign against one country. When you do, it's obvious to see that the U.S. was not "blowing people up round the clock" in those six countries in 2015. The comparatively low amount of munitions expended that year suggest limited bombings of a relatively small number of targets.
 
Town Heretic

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
elohiym said:
"Modern Islamic scholarship ... Post some sources. If there are truly well over one billion Muslims opposed to ISIS and "the wrong interpretations," what is the evidence of that?
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I've posted links in other threads to studies that firmly show the overwhelming majority in Islam reject ISIS practices and violence. I'll go back and get them if you like.

What they believe will come true is what concerns us. That only a few hundred million of them want to help make it happen isn't too comforting either.
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Where does your few hundred million figure come from?

On war, it is often a necessary means to a good end. War is a gun. You hope not to find yourself in a position where its use is required, but there are times when it simply is.
 
elohiym

elohiym

Well-known member
Town Heretic said:
I've posted links in other threads to studies that firmly show the overwhelming majority in Islam reject ISIS practices and violence. I'll go back and get them if you like.
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Thank you. I would like if you could start a thread and post them in the OP. You could call the thread Proof the majority of Islam rejects ISIS practices and violence, or whatever you think is best. People who have evidence to add can add it there.

Town Heretic said:
Where does your few hundred million figure come from?
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I'm assuming at least 15% to 25% of Muslims want to live under Sharia law under a Caliphate, whether this alleged Caliphate or another. The assumption is based on the disputed figures suggested by Bridgette Gabriel:

"The radicals are estimated to be between 15 to 25 percent, according to all intelligence services around the world," she said, in part, when asked by an American University head-scarf wearing law student about waging an ideological war with Muslims. "You're looking at 180 million to 300 million people dedicated to the destruction of Western civilization," Gabriel added.​

Probably true to some degree, and it just feels like an underestimate to me. :idunno:

Town Heretic said:
On war, it is often a necessary means to a good end. War is a gun. You hope not to find yourself in a position where its use is required, but there are times when it simply is.
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I wasn't arguing against war in this thread. Paul tells Christians they are in a war, but their weapons are not carnal. I was only implying Krsto's solutions were critical of how professionals are waging the carnal warfare he obviously wants fought on his terms.
 
gcthomas

gcthomas

New member
elohiym said:
So when, for example, the Daily Mail posts an actual video of an actual Imam standing in a Mosque actually telling Muslims to breed children with Europeans to conquer their countries, I would be gullible to believe the event actually occurred? Your reasoning skills are breathtaking.
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How does the Daily Mail go about verifying that the video was authentic and not staged? (the Mail doesn't often verify stories that might sell more papers). How do you know that it was an actual imam, and that he was in the location claimed?

If it was true that one imam said those things, is it relevant? How many followers? Ten? A hundred thousand? The Mail doesn't care about context, but thinking people ought to.
 
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