ECT Destroying your understanding of a most favorite salvation passage

Cross Reference

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You have made the classic mistake of thinking that the verses in Romans 8:35-39 are referring to the love that God has for us and not the love we have for God.

While it is true that nothing can stop God from loving us, each of the things Paul lists are things that can stop us from loving God.

Romans 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

Do you believe God forgives our sins because He loves us?
 

genuineoriginal

New member
And then what that forgiveness continue?
You have that forgiveness by continue in the Grace of God and continue in the faith.


Acts 13:43
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.​


Acts 14:19-22
19 And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
20 Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.
21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.​


You cannot have that forgiveness if you continue in sin.

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?​

 

Cross Reference

New member
You have that forgiveness by continue in the Grace of God and continue in the faith.


Acts 13:43
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.​


Acts 14:19-22
19 And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
20 Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.
21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.​


You cannot have that forgiveness if you continue in sin.

Romans 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?​


How does Romans 8:1 read to you?
 

genuineoriginal

New member
How does Romans 8:1 read to you?


Romans 8:1
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.​


Those people whose actions come from following the Spirit are not under condemnation.

Those people whose actions come from following the lusts of the flesh are still under condemnation.


Galatians 5:16
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.​

 

Totton Linnet

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The reason we are saved is the same reason why we will ALWAYS be saved.

We are God's sheep, His property, we belong to Him.
 
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Lazy afternoon

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LIFETIME MEMBER
The reason we are saved is the same reason why we will ALWAYS be saved.

We are God's sheep, His property, we belong to Him.

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


LA
 

Lon

Well-known member
“conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear” (1 Peter 1:17)
“For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers;
but the face of the Lord is against those (everyone!) who do evil.” (1 Peter 3:12)
Yes, everyone who is sinning without proper repentance is not righteous in God’s eyes!
Jumping all over scripture is a terrible idea. It most always rips a truth violently out of the meaning given.

In this instance I have one question: 1Peter 1:17,
'who' were they to fear? (hint: they were Jews in dispersion)

When you skip 3 chapters later with the next verse, it is still addressing how they were to live, yet being dispersed and under the eyes of others. Peter then, just a few verses later, says this:
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.


Try not to violently rip verses from context in order to 'prove' something, because it especially does damage to its intent & to our and other's demise rather than good. Scripture is meant to teach within the context it is given and we are accountable when we rip it wrongly apart. We are called to divide it rightly, not wrongly. EVERY time we ever offer up our bible-study and understanding, we must necessarily lift it up for correction and/or ridicule because it is 'our' context we are lifting up, if we are not giving all of scripture. It would have been better to stick with Romans, than to do this with John and 1 Peter. Charismatics are notorious for this, and it shows a lack of respect and concern for the Word of God imho. We must be very careful to lift up what context MUST support, and in this case, it does not.

On this particular subject, I look for letters that specifically speak to the subject matter. Paul, in Philippians 3:7-9 said his righteousness was 'not' his own. He also spells this out in Titus 3:3-8 and even explains that 'works' are toward man, not God, in verse 8.
 

Cross Reference

New member

Romans 8:1
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.​


Those people whose actions come from following the Spirit are not under condemnation.

Those people whose actions come from following the lusts of the flesh are still under condemnation.


Galatians 5:16
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.​


Thank you, genuine.

Providing that that particular lust of the flesh is a sin, don't you suppose?

Irrespective of that, I would say that that verse is the spiritual "headsup" for all who desire to enter into the spiritual "promised land" of Romans 8.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Jumping all over scripture is a terrible idea. It most always rips a truth violently out of the meaning given.

In this instance I have one question: 1Peter 1:17,
'who' were they to fear? (hint: they were Jews in dispersion)

When you skip 3 chapters later with the next verse, it is still addressing how they were to live, yet being dispersed and under the eyes of others. Peter then, just a few verses later, says this:
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.


Try not to violently rip verses from context in order to 'prove' something, because it especially does damage to its intent & to our and other's demise rather than good. Scripture is meant to teach within the context it is given and we are accountable when we rip it wrongly apart. We are called to divide it rightly, not wrongly. EVERY time we ever offer up our bible-study and understanding, we must necessarily lift it up for correction and/or ridicule because it is 'our' context we are lifting up, if we are not giving all of scripture. It would have been better to stick with Romans, than to do this with John and 1 Peter. Charismatics are notorious for this, and it shows a lack of respect and concern for the Word of God imho. We must be very careful to lift up what context MUST support, and in this case, it does not.

On this particular subject, I look for letters that specifically speak to the subject matter. Paul, in Philippians 3:7-9 said his righteousness was 'not' his own. He also spells this out in Titus 3:3-8 and even explains that 'works' are toward man, not God, in verse 8.

Would it have help his case with you if he had placed this word in front of his concluding scripture quote:


THEREFORE, “conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear” (1 Peter 1:17)
“For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers;
but the face of the Lord is against those (everyone!) who do evil.” (1 Peter 3:12)
Yes, everyone who is sinning without proper repentance is not righteous in God’s eyes!" ??
 

Lon

Well-known member
Would it have help his case with you if he had placed this word in front of his concluding scripture quote:


THEREFORE, “conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear” (1 Peter 1:17)
“For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers;
but the face of the Lord is against those (everyone!) who do evil.” (1 Peter 3:12)
Yes, everyone who is sinning without proper repentance is not righteous in God’s eyes!" ??
No, it is still jumping from chapter 1 to chapter 3. I'd be like:
Matthew 27:5 then Luke 10:37b. Doing scripture this way is wrong, and terrible, and ungodly, even.

This is why good Language Arts (English) grades and being able to read context as well as diagram a proper sentence is so important. We are tested on this stuff all through school. Yes the Holy Spirit, unquestioningly, but if one is inept in school, he/she will be inept in scriptures as well.

The BEST thing one can do to understand his/her Bible better, with the Holy Spirit as a given, is retake those Language Arts/English classes and get A's and B's instead of C's and D's and F's.
 

Cross Reference

New member
No, it is still jumping from chapter 1 to chapter 3. I'd be like:
Matthew 27:5 then Luke 10:37b. Doing scripture this way is wrong, and terrible, and ungodly, even.

This is why good Language Arts (English) grades and being able to read context as well as diagram a proper sentence is so important. We are tested on this stuff all through school. Yes the Holy Spirit, unquestioningly, but if one is inept in school, he/she will be inept in scriptures as well.

The BEST thing one can do to understand his/her Bible better, with the Holy Spirit as a given, is retake those Language Arts/English classes and get A's and B's instead of C's and D's and F's.

Your view is unsupportable. Obeying God, governments re human nature all confirm that 1 Peter addresses those with understanding of or seek to know what the issues are about.

Here is an example I would ask you, who is Peter speaking to?:

"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently" 1 Peter 1:22 (KJV 1900)

I wouldn't hesitate in placing the word, "THEREFORE" in front up that verse either.
 

ZacharyB

Active member
God will not forgive our sins merely because He loves us, but because He loves us He has provided the forgiveness of sin for those that repent and believe in Jesus the Messiah.
Isn't this obvious for everyone (except the deceived women here)?

Another hidden passage, which none of you has noticed ...
Paul says to the church re: their response to his letter of condemnation:
"Kudos to youse guys, for repentance is unto salvation!"
Go and find the exact wording.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Absolutely not ...
all of the NT screams that WE have some responsibility for some semblance of
obedience unto final salvation ... because salvation is a process (not a one-time event).

Great! But here is the help [and its 'acuteness'] to us to understand that we violate when we sin:

It is by the cross of Jesus Christ that God is able to forgive us our sins. What should that say to us when confessing Christ as Savior; as Lord? Who do we hurt if we willfully sin and what comes against us when we do?
 
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ZacharyB

Active member
Jumping all over scripture is a terrible idea. It most always rips a truth violently out of the meaning given.
I view each verse in the context of the whole entire NT.

As for your incredibly wonderful quoting of Paul:
you (as most others) have NO clue as to his method of writing to (his in many cases) churches!
NO clue whatsoever, even though you think you do!
Part of this technique is his incredibly confusing way of stating things!
No one else admits this ...
because they want to pretend that they understand what in bloody hell Paul is saying!!!

But, I know better ... because you Americans have been educated to NOT think!
CRITICAL THINKING began to be removed purposely from your education system
some 50+ years ago!
BC has just now started this!
But, all of this is WAY over your heads!
Wait just a few more months ... and you'll see why!
 

lifeisgood

New member
Absolutely not ...
all of the NT screams that WE have some responsibility for some semblance of
obedience unto final salvation ... because salvation is a process (not a one-time event).

Salvation is a one-time event.
Jesus either justifies you the first time or He doesn't.
It is not a process.

Sanctification on the other hand is a lifelong process.
We are being conformed to Him (Philippians 3:10).

In Justification, the Lord fights ‘for’ us.
In Sanctification, He fights ‘in’ us.”
 
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