OSAS is the swindle of the century!

Daniel1769

Daniel1769

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dialm said:
You keep saying that but there is no proof. There is an OSAS thread on the subject but all it is is a rant fest.
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OSAS is in pretty much every book in the Bible. Galatians is entirely dedicated to it. The most famous verse, John 3:16, attests to it. I could make a list of passages they explicitly say OSAS is true and that Calvinism cannot be. You wouldn't accept it anyway so I probably won't waste my time. The fact is, when people dig their heels in enough to write blogs about an issue, odds are nothing will ever change their mind.

Further, and more importantly, why do you even care who believes in TULIP or OSAS? What does it matter if we're all predestined?
 
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dialm

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Daniel1769 said:
No one knew about TULIP until some murderous tyrant named Calvin brought that piece of heresy into the world. He even gave it an effeminate name. Probably a sodomite too since we already know he was a murderous tyrant.
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The Bible is full of May flowers. Front to back. TULIP's abound.
 
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dialm

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Daniel1769 said:
OSAS is in pretty much every book in the Bible. Galatians is entirely dedicated to it. The most famous verse, John 3:16, attests to it. I could make a list of passages they explicitly say OSAS is true and that Calvinism cannot be. You wouldn't accept it anyway so I probably won't waste my time. The fact is, when people dig their heels in enough to write blogs about an issue, odds are nothing will ever change their mind.

Further, and more importantly, why do you even care who believes in TULIP or OSAS? What does it matter if we're all predestined?
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The Lord commanded that we spread the Gospel message. You cannot be saved if you don't obey the Master. That friend is where OSAS goes wrong. It has no responsibility.
 
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dialm

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I'm willing to discuss John 3:16 in a civilized manner. But dispense with the unprovable slander first.
 
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dialm

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Didn't think the enemy would want to have John 3:16 discussed by a Calvinist in his own back yard.
 
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dialm

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OSAS thinks John 3:16 is coup de grace, (French, meaning bad medicine for every Calvinist).

Well it just ain't so. As a matter of fact the verse is the center piece of our table.
 
heir

heir

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dialm said:
Ok I finally see where you are coming from. It took a while what with the verse selection. Your verse selection is great

IF

You were arguing pro-Calvin. But you are arguing pro-OSAS. Here is an example of why I misunderstood you-

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

That is your I Cor. 15 passage. Your very first one has an 'IF' clause in verse 2.

My question is-

Why are you using a passage that contains an 'if' clause since the clause terminates the surety?
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The "if" is an "unless ye have believed in vain". A person who has believed in vain has never believed all of the elements of the gospel of Christ declared in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV.

Scripture shows us the best example of believing in vain as "some" at Corinth did not believe in "the resurrection of the dead". One who doesn't believe in the resurrection of the dead would not believe that Christ was risen. Their faith was also vain!

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

1 Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

1 Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Those who trust the Lord believing all of the elements of the gospel of Christ declared by Paul "are saved"! There's is no IF attached to those who "are saved"! The IF is attached to those who were never saved, but those who "believed in vain" having never trusting the Lord believing the gospel Paul declared. Understand?
 
heir

heir

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dialm said:
There is not a dime's worth of difference between what OSAS is doing and what the Witnesses are doing. They both reject clear sentences and paragraphs in the Bible. Then when they can't stand it any longer they cut the verses out. But to bad for them. They are never able to quite get them all. So they just act like it isn't there.
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I'm OSAS and I don't reject any of the Bible. I recognize that while all the Bible is FOR us, it's not all TO us or about us. We must 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV. There's no way around it as the Bible doesn't all say the same thing. The Bible says a lot of different things.
 
heir

heir

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steko said:
The 'if' clause is referring to people who have heard Paul's gospel of salvation but believe in vain/futility because they don't believe in the literal resurrection of the dead. They may believe in the existence of the Lord Jesus, even wonders that He did, but if they don't believe that the dead come back to life, then they certainly don't believe that Jesus rose from the dead, therefore they have not truly believed and whatever faith that they may have, it is not enough if they don't believe in Christ's resurrection.
Paul is not using his 'if' clause in regard to those who are truly saved by believing in the literal death, burial and resurrection of Christ on the third day.
This does not refute the doctrine of eternal security/OSAS.
The 'if' clause only 'terminates the surety' if one does not believe that the dead are raised. Those who believe that the dead are raised and place their faith in Christ's resurrection have 'surety'.

1Co 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain[futile], and your faith is also vain[futile].
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain[futile]; ye are yet in your sins.
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:up: I just replied with the same answer! :cloud9: I love it when that happens~1 Corinthians 1:10 KJV!
 
heir

heir

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dialm said:
The Lord commanded that we spread the Gospel message.
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Which gospel are you talking about?
You cannot be saved if you don't obey the Master.
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You cannot be saved if you so much as wiggle your finger in an attempt to save yourself (Romans 4:4-5 KJV, Ephesians 2:4-9 KJV).

Our obedience is the obedience of faith (Romans 16:25-26 KJV) and that faith is in His faith and obedience (Romans 3:21-22 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV, 2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV, Galatians 2:16 KJV, Philippians 2:8 KJV)!

That friend is where OSAS goes wrong. It has no responsibility.
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What a load! 1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV, 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV
 
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